Hella TN4 fog lights

Have learned the Hella TN4 (with help form expert) is the correct through the grill driving light for ‘69 through ‘73. The rest of the world received h1 or h3 bulbs but the US got these TN4 with tungsten bulbs. I purchased these years ago for my ‘68 912 coupe and being young (65) and stupid did not appreciate even the grill sizes. I am selling two TN4s, the mounting brackets, crappy Porsche made grills, rubber grill seals and a correct fog light switch. The chrome on the lights is 9.5 out of 10. I don’t like to pass on crap if I can help it so I have replaced the gaskets and wired the lights. Used 12 awg so should be no question about power. Used brown for ground and blue for positive. I don’t know if blue was what Hella used but one of the lights had a blue wire attached. Also replaced the wiring grommets and added fresh bulbs. One lens has a very small (not deep) chip which has no effect on the light pattern. Might be able to fill with a glass repair but I don’t went to misrepresent something by hiding it. Reflectors have good reflective surfaces.

The switch has a fresh rubber knob, new green indicator insert and fresh Jimmy T light rod. Also included the bulb holder but you will have to make the short power wire for the bulb light. I can provide a chrome bezel as opposed to the black bezel for an extra $25.00.

After saying that I hate to pass on crap, the grills are something else. The right grill is driver quality in appearance. The left grill(s) are bad. One is bent with a blade cracked (amazed to see pot metal bent). The other is better shape but a piece is missing. I am sure that if you have a good pot metal guy one good left grill could be made. Just had a fellow make a dealer badge out of two pot metal pieces. Got it rechromed and looks fantastic. I got is rechromed at Frankfort Plating in Philadelphia only to discover that they did pot metal repair. Highly recommend them for plating and would guess their repair service would be as good. John Audette, the lighting expert, has two levels of the grills for purchase. If you repair what I send you or get some of John’s grills I would suggest that you are close to concurs quality if you show your car. You will also be period correct.

I ordered new Hella attachment swivels. For some reason they are two different colors. I also retained the original swivels which I have not bothered to clean up. I’ll send either set but not both. I am supplying three of the mounting brackets, All need a coat of black paint. Also supplying an extra housing. The reflector in that one is crap.

Asking $700.00 plus postage for everything for those of you who want period correct. Can’t compete with John Audette or Eric Lindens beautiful stuff, but this is a period correct assembly with the switch,. You will need to fabricate the harness. If I get no taker I’ll get the gril from John and raise my price to $1,000.00. Let me know if additional pictures are required. Do not confuse these with Hella 118s (115s) which are correct for ‘68 backwards.


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I believe these are fog lights, not driving lights.

Can you post a picture of the inside of the lights please?

I would defer to your knowledge. However I was told that fog lights whether yellow or clear are divided in half with different vertical fluting fluting on the bottom as opposed to a different vertical fluting on top half. TN4 lamps are the same for both the 911/912 and the 914 but the case is black for the 914s and chrome for the 911/912s. I refer you to 914Rubber's site. https://914rubber.com/all-parts-hardware/lighting. There are also TN1/TN2 which are backup lights for European tractors which will also take the fog or driving light lens. Since you only seem to be on this site to sell your takeoffs from European junk yards I would ask why you think these should be questioned. If these are not as represented, I will give a full refund. I am not a lighting expert like you so I could be wrong. If others chime in and say they are fog lights, then I am selling them as fog lights for the same price; refund guaranteed.

I believe these are Hella 115's TN4 fog lights.
Maybe the light expert here (Mr 70SATMan) can confirm this.

73 recently sold on the PCA web site. Talk about confused. See what happens when you enlarge picture. Fog on right side of car and driving on left.

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Originally Posted by doigthom

73 recently sold on the PCA web site. Talk about confused. See what happens when you enlarge picture. Fog on right side of car and driving on left.

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Maybe I can't see very well anymore, but I see both side fog lights

Sorry. I'm not very good at computer graphic. Her is a double sized picture of the left light.
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Also in an effort to put this to rest, I opened one light up. Forgot that I didn't have to take out the life threatening spring clip to view the writing on the reflector. Doing this all with my older Samsung phone camera which I also have not fully mastered.

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These are indeed fog lights and the version used for the NA market. It’s not the split that necessarily makes a lens for fog. It’s the size and shape of the flute. These are wider and deeper than used on a driving lens, creating a wider fan dispersal.

Technically, the US market did not have a driving light option. Fog lights pre ‘69 were the below bumper 128s. Those were dropped in ‘69 and replaced with the 118s/TN4s.
Of course one could work with the dealers back in the day or pick up a tourist delivery car and end up with the halogens. Porsche just couldn’t technically export a car into the US with the 118s.

Thanks Mike. Taught me a little more again. Asking the moderator to change from driving lights to fog lights. Works out better since the switch insert is green which I think signified "fog" lights. Please correct me on that if I'm wrong in that assumption. Also just wondering why there are lenses that have the upper and lower flutes that are different. Are they in fact the TN1/TN2 tractor lenses. Lastly I owe enxo5 an apology since he correctly called these fog lights although I believe he identified them as 118 TN4s. I think now that they are two different things, but sorry Enzo.

True! The driving lights were wired with the high beams and the fog lights used the switch.

The TN2 lens is the same basic shape and diameter as the TN4 and the case/bezel is essentially the same, so, it’s an easy fig lens swap but that lens was not used on our cars.

@70SATMan, Can you confirm that the diameter of the glass of these lights is 115mm, and that these are TN4 Hella 115's?

I'm now a little lost again. Hella 115s are not TN4s. Am I correct in that assumption? 115s were not legal in US but only ROW. Am I correct in that assumption? The Factory Installed Optionss brochure for 1969 states that above the bumper lights are quartz Iodine "Driving lights". And also option of white fog lights above the bumper. Porsche uses the word "driving" but to be correct it should be quartz iodine for the rest of the world only although it would appear to be available since it has a dealer price. Makes it confusing when Porsche uses the term "driving lights". I cant comment on diameter but Michael probably can. Sorry about rotation.

Tom, No, not exactly. This is an explanation in general terms about the Hella lights. Think of this in strictly aftermarket. When 118 or 115 is used, it’s a reference to the lens diameter. The case backs are the same size, use the same type of mount but, because of the differences in the lenses, uses different trim rings. Internally, there are differences in the cases meant for either the halogen 118 or the tungsten 115. So, swapping doesn’t really work unless one makes modifications.

‘118’ does not define a fog or driving style light. Within the Hella 118 series there are many variations. Clear, amber, fog, driving configurations. ALSO, different bulbs, H3 or H1. It was the halogen 118s that were not legal for the US (Porsche ROW)

There are similar different variations of the 115 in the aftermarket. US DOT recognized the Tungsten 115. Over the years I’ve read people claiming that TN1/TN2 lenses were also seen on the 914 115 lights but, I don’t buy that. Maybe later on, the TN1/TN2 version lens was made available as a spare. What I do believe is that Porsche only used the TN4 lens for the 115.

Got to take the translations in the manuals with a grain of salt. One thing for sure, Porsche was very careful stating which PNs were “For US only” or “Not for US”.

Hope this explanation helps.

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Originally Posted by 70SATMan

These are indeed fog lights and the version used for the NA market. It’s not the split that necessarily makes a lens for fog. It’s the size and shape of the flute. These are wider and deeper than used on a driving lens, creating a wider fan dispersal.

Technically, the US market did not have a driving light option. Fog lights pre ‘69 were the below bumper 128s. Those were dropped in ‘69 and replaced with the 118s/TN4s.
Of course one could work with the dealers back in the day or pick up a tourist delivery car and end up with the halogens. Porsche just couldn’t technically export a car into the US with the 118s.

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If I understand correctly, all pre '69 early 911's that have Hella 118's driving lights installed are not Original?

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Originally Posted by enoz05

If I understand correctly, all pre '69 early 911's that have Hella 118's driving lights installed are not Original?

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There are SWB brackets for TTG lights so,,, I don’t have any pre-69 parts manuals or brochures listing the early option codes. I can say that I’ve restored lights for a couple of ‘68 cars that reportedly had TTG lights originally.

Picked this out of the 1967 Tourist Delivery brochure. See the green car. Lights look larger than TN4 or Hella 118. Also checked the PET and info contained in the V Pages. Refers to Fog light and to "additional headlamps" for '69 and above. Also says they were sold as kits. All of that probably not much help with anything.Attachment 620056