The clue is in the picture. ;)
Jens
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The clue is in the picture. ;)
Jens
Alois Ruf is my guess. What did I win Jens???
Damn Rob, too easy!!
:cool:
was the clue the RUF wheeled 996?....that 2.7 looks beautiful..what red is that?
OK guys educate me here: Is this an RS without the ducktail?
Now I know that the ducktail was actually an option, I just have not seen a pic of one without before.
Wow, I think it looks even better without - awesome car.
I'll probably get shot down by those that are more in the know than I, but since there has been no other replies, I'll say that it looks to me like India red.......Quote:
Originally posted by joelrkaplan
.....what red is that?
Full restoration by Alois. Someone else will tell us what the color is. Photos are tough to tell sometimes. India Red? Bahia Red?
Looks like it's car # 0125, or 0156, or 0228 (Bahia).
Jens
I'm leaning towards India Red. I could ask, but what fun would that be!?
What really gets me about this car is how aggressive the wheels and tires look. With a ducktail you kind of expect it, but without it, that's what stands out.
Jens
Mike,
You could order them without the duck tail...
Looking through the Carrera book I counted 33 that left the factory without rear spoilers.
Rick C. posted this fantastic Series 1 lightweight with a special order color with Ducktail delete.
http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/li...ail_delete.jpg
Man, that's so cool it 'hurts my eyes' .... What-a bitchin car!!! :cool:
Fanastic cars.....Rs's look great without the ducktail...but was it a delete option.
I thought that the German cars were delivered with a standard lid, the ducktail version not being 'approved' by the German authorities. Something about danger to pedestrians....
The ducktail equiped lid was with the car and owners could mount it if they so wished.
Maybe that's just an urban myth.....
(Although that's how the spoilers for the BMW 3.0CSL were delivered, flat packed in the boot of the car for the German market).
Either way they look great.
Just checked it was an option on the RS
The same source (The Original 911 Pter Morgan) says that it was in 74 that the ducktail was banned in Germany...how strange)
I am in shock: I thought that a "regular" RS looks good, but without the tail and without the side decals and painted wheels these cars look simply stunning - like and S on steroids :)
Only 33 without ducktail - I better start looking for mine ...
Now would there be a drastic difference in the car's handling with or without spoiler? I have read there is not but am curious to what others think and have experienced.
Germany banned the ducktail in 74 - the reasoning was that the sharp edges might hurt pedestrians in case of an accident, hence Porsche went to the whale thing with the huge rubber around it (Not sure if this will hurt any less).
Mike
Speaking as someone who have driven his car both ways … I will say a different YES and NOQuote:
Originally posted by Mike Baum
Now would there be a drastic difference in the car's handling with or without spoiler? I have read there is not but am curious to what others think and have experienced.
Mike
NO - up until about 80 mph+ ... then a very BIG YES after that… Combined with the stock S front spoiler, the duck tail cuts A LOT OF rear end lift by over 70% … the effect is that it settles and sets the FRONT end of the car at high speeds considerably. The car is MUCH more relaxed at high speed………..
However, every once in awhile I'll look at my stock deck lid and think... maybe I should put it back on for awhile.;)
Looks like India Red to me :D
Chuck,
You hit it right on the mark! My car is one hell of alot more stable at high speeds with the duck tail fitted.
Although you and I both know it is SO very seldom we go over 70mph.
All the best!
Roger
R Gruppe #27
73 RS-T
70 2.4MFI VW Bus
Jens,
Do you have any more pictures of that car? I love the look. It is very RS without looking like the RS that is tattood to our brains! NO tail, No graphics, sits high, black wheels... Very cool.
Anybody have a red T I can stick my RS engine in?
Best,
Don
Hey Don:
I may have some more photos, but I'll have to dig for them (my photo files are huge).
You know, I may have just the car to put that motor in...I'll send you my shipping address! ;)
Jens
Glad to know I'm not delusional on the higher speed wiggle.
I was begining to wonder.
I have been 'advised' by those who are more experienced that it shouldn't be as noticeable if the car is correctly aligned and th front end is taken down a little from the 'stock' position.
Beautiful car Doug!
Mike,Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Baum
Now would there be a drastic difference in the car's handling with or without spoiler? I have read there is not but am curious to what others think and have experienced.
Mike
In the early 70's spoilers were controversial. In the Carrera RS book there is graphic that shows results of testing done by a German automotive magazine Sport-Auto to test the speed and handling of the RS in a number of combinations without and with the front and rear spoilers. Compared against a base line of no spoilers, just a rear spoiler gave a .5 KPH advantage, but made the handling quite poor, with just a front spoiler the advantage was 2.0 KPH, and with both front and rear spoilers it was an advantage of 5.0 KPH and the handling was far superior. They concluded that indeed Porsche was right in their claim of markedly improved top speed and handling.
Don,
I thought you already had a rust free 'T'. I know its white, but if you put the rear RS flares on you could then paint it red. Don't you need another project anyway?;)
I was at Ruff's exactly two years ago this month. He spent a couple hours with me showing me some cool stuff. That red car was there just sitting and he said it belonged to a customer and it wasn't for sale. (of course I had to ask!) Jens, do you know where that photo was taken?
Speaking of red with no spoilers, wait until Herr Schmidt rolls out his R Gruppe project next year! Jeff is a little sheepish when it comes to his body work, but his work is as good as it gets, believe me! I will attach a photo or two, but the only rear shot has the deck lid up. I saw it down, unbelievable.
he may not be happy with me posting pics of the project, but I am sure he will heal over time!
Jeff is into correct detail, note the seat sliders.
Rick, this was at RUF in Pfaffenhausen.
Did Schmidt go as far as to putting tar on the floorpan prior to painting? ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Rick Cabell
Jeff is into correct detail
Thanks for the stuff on handling and spoilers. I feel that my Targa "lifts" the front when I'm going 90 or over - no vibration whatsoever though. Not sure though if a Targa is the best car to test out handling questions :)
I guess this "take off" feeling is what was supposed to be stabilized primarily with the spoilers (apart from the speed gain)?
Yeah Mike, the spoilers reduce aerodynamic lift by keeping less air from getting under the front of the car and by "spoiling" the laminar airflow over the body. The early 911 was by accident a real good approximation of an airplane wing that makes the car lighter at speed and want to fly or lift off. Not good for control.
The IROC "tea tray" wings were designed more to apply downforce to counter-act lift (not just spoil it) giving much enhanced cornering and braking performance. The modern F-1 cars produce as much as 4000 pounds of downforce at speed on a 1400 pound car. It is said that at only 100 mph they could literally drive upside down in a tunnel stuck to the ceiling. I want to see that done!
I've toyed with the idea of installing spoilers along with the rest of the car's track equipment, but keeping it stock all other times. My guess is swapping the engine lid is easy, but the front spoiler would be a pain. Someone should develop a removable chin spoiler for the early cars.Quote:
However, every once in awhile I'll look at my stock deck lid and think... maybe I should put it back on for awhile.
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Baum
OK guys educate me here: Is this an RS without the ducktail?
Now I know that the ducktail was actually an option, I just have not seen a pic of one without before.
Wow, I think it looks even better without - awesome car.
Hi Mike,
Ferry Porsche clearly had a taste for the outrageous.
No duck tail, body coloured headlight rings, wheels and bumper guards. Round mirror, black anodised window trim, hand painted Carrera script and blue pig skin high back seats. The colour is pearlescent metallic pale green.
The duck tail reduced rear-end lift at 152mph from 145kg to just 42kg. At that speed, crosswind stability is significantly improved, rear wheel grip increases by no less than 20%, and the aerodynamic front/rear lift ratio is almost exactly aligned with the car's weight distribution [45% front/55%rear] And these benifits can be experienced at far lower speed too.
<img src=http://members.aol.com/enoo7/rsjpg>
If you want to have the aero advantage of a ducktail but without sacrificing the original silhouette, a 964 lid is a good alternative.
The green one looks like Ferry's car, but without the ducktail......
Are ther two lids with this car, one with and one without?
We have seen pics of it with the ducktail....which is the 'most original?'
Either way its beauty......
Chassis #1281 (Ferry's RS) originally came without the ducktail.
Some of the other unique features were:
Colour-coded Cookie Cutters
Colour-coded headlamp rims & rear overriders (bumperettes)
Black anodised exterior/interior trim
Short rocker trim (similar to but not the same as on swb models)
Hand-painted Carrera graphics in a darker shade of green
High-back seats (similar to '74-on) in blue 'pigskin' vinyl & wool
2.8 engine with prototype Bosch K-Jetronic injection
Andy
'69 911E------>R
Wow - you guys know a lot for sure. Not sure though if I physically understood how exactly rear-end lift is reduced from 145kg to 42kg :)
Now, of course, I have to put a ducktail on my targa because I fly down PCH at 152mph all the time with the soft window down and I sure don't want to take off.
Just kidding ...
I beleive this is Ferry's car. Spotted at Goodwood a few weeks ago. It matches most of the description above
http://www.nicholas-moss.co.uk/photos/ferry-RS1-800.jpg
911 & Porsche World had a great write up on this car a couple of issues ago. Of all the hype that has been generated by the RS is the past years, there were a couple cars that were cool that I had never heard of. That light green one of Ferry's was one on them. Interesting story and options.
That's it, minus the colour coded alloys, which 'were' on the car when it was sold to BB.
Tail was on the car when sold by Automobilia, so somewhere along the line it gained one....possibly once Porsche had sold it.
Does any one have good images of Peich's RS as displayed at Eynsham Hall this year?
Another 'historic' RS.....
I believe it was in the 911& Porsche World that I mentioned in the previous post.
Rick, that's issue #109 April of '03. Pg. 78 has the article on Ferry's custom RS (early mirrors) and Ferdinand Piech's yellow RS. Good article, lots of detail.
Just a quick follow up on Ruf's RS, he is the customer that he refered to. That is his personal car, he's owned it for 20 years but recently restored it in-house. Check out the RUF website-
http://www.ruf-automobile.de/english/index1.htm
-and click on the "about Us" button on the upper right. The graphic along the top shows the red RS in the showroom with two other RUF cars.
ps. have you found a project car for me yet? ;)
build the strorage barn...
build the strorage barn...
and the projects will come :)
Just what I need, an excuse to acquire many more projects. Actually, might be a great excuse to store some of your secret-stash projects!?!! Such a deal have I got for you!Quote:
Originally posted by SERIES900
and the projects will come :)
Anyone know if a rear seat was an option on the RS... I think I have seen some cars on this site that look like they have a rear seat and RS tags....
Stuart - the Touring (M472) models came with the same interior as the contemporary 2.4S c/w std rear seat arrangement.