Does anyone know the location of RS #181? A Signal Yellow LHD German car. I know where the original motor #6630191 is.
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Does anyone know the location of RS #181? A Signal Yellow LHD German car. I know where the original motor #6630191 is.
Hi, it interesting how engines get seperated. I have had 2 RS engines over the year. Currently I have 6630073 from 9113600058. A car I think Roy Walzer owns, or at least owned. I wonder when and where they got apart.
Many years ago I sold 6630662 from 9113600680. A car that was in Italy and from what I understand totaled. I found that engine together with a RS gearbox in a -73 S that I bought. We all thought that this S was faster than others, more RS-like..... Then I looked at the engine code. A nice surprise :)
Ref . . .
VIN = 9113600181
That makes it much easier to search for.
. . . . . ;) . . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by davep
Here's a little info on it from the My911CarreraRS site, including what appears to be a web page listing it for sale: http://www.my911carrerars.com/known_...sis=9113600181
That may not have been posted by the owner, and may not be current, but it might be worth reaching out to the person that runs the website to see if they have any contact info. The page says the car is located in Portugal but the ad appears to be German.
181 is for sale at Mecum
"Number 181 is among the earliest of the Touring models built. Porsche’s Certificate of Authenticity confirms it was constructed in the first batch of 500 cars between September and November of 1972, although like most 911 Carrera RS models it is listed as a 1973 on the COA. It was recently restored in Europe by a marque specialist, and is reported to be in excellent condition. Having left the factory in Signal Yellow, it is currently finished in equally eye-catching Orange over a fresh Black leather interior"
I guess this auction is listing by production year rather than model year.
Owner to restorer :
" well I'm not a big fan of yellow and since the correct engine is long gone I guess it's safe to do a color change since it couldn't be 100% anyway " .......:rolleyes:
At least Mecum make no mention of engine numbers or claims that its original so maybe engine not re united with car yet
300kph speedo, single bolt fan strap (even if not the original engine), wonder who the expert European restorer was?
Regards
Mike
No need to look farther than the polished 7&8s to see the quality of the restorer..:)Quote:
Originally Posted by 210bhp
H
Looks like there are two 1973 Carrera RS VIN 911 360 0181! in the market. One is still for sale in Portugal, offered as unrestored and fully original bodyshell including the 7 digit secret no, but with no engine and no papers, another one is for sale at MECUM in Monterey on Saturday!? If this is fact, the MECUM RS cannot be an original one. I was told that engine 663 0191 out of this shell had been sold already several years ago. So I am surprised that the MECUM Carrera RS engine`s no. is identical. Any comments or ideas?
. . . post those VINs
;)
OK, this will be interesting to track. I would like our resident RS expert, Brian, to weigh in here. Sounds like some potential shenanigans going on again in the RS world. Might explain the vague auction description and lack of attention to some details during the restoration.
I thought the Mecum car was purchased by an American in Portugal a couple of years ago, is the advert up to date?
Yes my comments and questions are is up to date AUG 14 2014. Mecum claims having a factory CoA. But the one they have is in fact a copy from Porsche Cars North America and not the factory one! Easy to get! Just fill out the form and pay $100.00 with the VIN you like to have on the CoA.Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-moss
The one and only true RS identification is the factory embossed VIN in combination with the corresponding factory embossed 7 digit production no. starting with 103xxxx for 1973 RS, both embossed in the shell. see attachment. Unfortunately Mecum is not in a position to mail this production number. Claim not having received the car yet!? RS engine type 911/83, no. 663 0191 as stated in the CoA is definetly in another restored RS in the UK!
Really? Which car?Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-pass
Perhaps you could post a link to the advert for the car in Portugal?
Q-Pass,
Can you link photos of the car for sale in Portugal? There are no photos on the Mecum site that shows the VINs for the auction car so maybe a member of the forum attending the auction can photograph them for us. Hard to know without seeing photos from either car. The Mecum car does have undercoating under the paint in the engine bay which is not a good sign for a first series RS, but that could have been a restoration mistake like several other details on the car.
Are you using the photo of the production number of a '73 coupe as an example of what the stamping should look like? That is not the production number of RS 181, it is probably from a Coupe produced in January 1973. Any way more hard evidence would be helpful. Thanks.
The Mecum RS Lightweight number was 9113601222 sold at 650,000. Description indicates matching number engine and factory COA.
So Mecum sold different RS. How could you confuse it with RS 181?
Or is there a second RS selling at Mecum.
Mecum Rs was not a lightweight but IT'S a TOURING
http://www.mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?...=CA0814-191288
My mistake, one of the announcers said lightweight when it came up.
181 went unsold with high bid of $450k.
So 181 was there at auction? Will the real 181 please stand up. I am just amazed that the auction houses don't do more homework when offering these cars up for sale. If that is in fact what happened....
The only "evidence" that there is another 0181 is from a new poster, Q-Pass, with no evidence submitted here. We are still waiting...... Even a link to the advert would be a start.Quote:
Originally Posted by t6dpilot
This appears to be what has been referenced. The car is not currently listed on the FS Automoveis website though.Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-moss
http://www.collectioncar.com/detaile...&category_id=1
Mark
+1.......NickQuote:
Originally Posted by nick-moss
Mark,Quote:
Originally Posted by 91133
This is the same car that was offered by Mecum. It was advertised in Portugal for sale some time ago and these are the photos from that ad. I don't think there are 2 different Carreras with VIN 181.
Brian, click the link in my post above for what appears to be the Portugal car referred to.Quote:
Originally Posted by fryardds
Cheers,
Mark
Yes, I did. Q-pass states this car is currently for sale in Portugal which is incorrect. It was for sale there in the past and the photos you link are from that old ad. The RS made it's way to the US.
Mecum is very misleading in the Monterey auction description for 1222 just like were when they offered it before. The engine in this RS is clearly not original but is stamped with the serial number of the original engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by davidgoerndt
http://www.fantasyjunction.com/cars/...%206-Cylinder#
Exactly. I was contacted by the American buyer at that time as he found this thread and was attempting to track down the original motor. Q-Pass needs to come clean, he may have prevented the car being sold by Mecum. I wouldn't be happy if I was the owner.Quote:
Originally Posted by fryardds
What happened to the original motor? Did the "American buyer" ever get it, does #181 have it's original engine now?Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-moss
Richard
Yes, I think we were on the same page - the link is to an indirect listing and the source for the listing doesn't have the car in their inventory which would suggest it had been sold. th evinced listing included an 'original engine number'…suspect the Q-pass post was an auction spoiler post perhaps looking for a bargain?Quote:
Originally Posted by fryardds
I think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by 91133
I was trying to help the owner market this car when I received an email about this approx. one month before Q-Pass posted his claims. I wonder if it is the same person
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...Anhang%201.jpg
I understand from the gentleman in Sweden, who had the original motor for #181, that he sold the motor to the owner of the Tangerine car in the USA. I subsequently saw (in person) the same car, apparently with that motor in it, at the Mecum Auction at Monterey in August 2015, not sold at $575K
Attachment 370545
Attachment 370546
Hey folks. I'm working on an 2.7 RS project and have been looking for an original RS engine to go with it.
I've located an engine, but it seems to be tied to this particular car.
Engine #: 66.30.191 / 6630191
Photos shared by the seller:
Attachment 556102
Attachment 556101
Attachment 556103
In my opinion it is a re-stamp the font on the 3 is wrong - it should have a flat top
what does the type number stamp look like? and what are the casting numbers? and most importantly where has in been unearthed from?
It looks like the engine that was in 0181 when it was for sale a number of times over the past 10 years with fanciful stories about where it had come from and obvious to me at the time that, at best, it was a re-body with re-stamped vin plates and engine and possibly a few real parts and, at worst, it was a poor fake
Here is the engine from when it was for sale in June 2012 in Portugal before it was for sale in San Francisco in 2013, Mecum at Monterey in 2014 and 2015 (when they said the engine was located in Sweden in 2015 !!) etc etc and in 2018 in Florida Also in 2015 it was claimed that a RS engine with that number was in a RS in the UK at the time - I have never seen photos of it to compare stamping however.
this photo was from 2012 - three years before it was "found for the car in Sweden" :( :mad:
Attachment 556104
Great, thanks Hugh.
By comparing the photos, I would say that the engine from the car in Portugal, the one at Mecum, and the one I am offered are the same one.
1. The engine number stamping from the car when it was back in Portugal (http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car/159377/index.html) seems to correspond with the one from the engine I've been offered. I've overlaid the image below.
Attachment 556105
2. The marks and scuffs around the fan housing seem to correspond with those seen on the car from the Mecum auction (https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0815-22...ra-rs-touring/). I've overlaid the image below.
Attachment 556106
I can't verify which engine is which, but I will repeat what I believe is true.
RS#181 was in the UK many years ago and the engine was removed, I believe by Autofarm, and fitted to a 1973 911T that was used in the UK in the late 90s for hillclimbing. The 911T was sold, complete with RS engine, to Sweden. The second owner of the car in Sweden contacted me in 2014/15 IIRC offering the RS motor #191.
That motor was then sold to the USA and found it's way into the Mecum RS#181 as I discussed here in 2016. I have no idea what happed to the motor that was in that car before.
I do wonder what happened to the RS, anyone know?
Run
Run far away
Quote:
Originally Posted by HughH
Engine number 6630191 that was in the 911T in the UK was sold to Sweden in 2005, it had invoices for engine rebuilds in Germany from Gottfriedd Kadach in 1991, Karl Wagner Tuning in 1996, then in the UK at Autofarm around 2005 just befor the 911T was sold. its not known if the engine was with Chassis 9113600181 in Germany at the time of the rebuilds however chassis 0181 ended up in Portugal in the late nineties as a Race car with RSR arches fitted and various other modifications.
It would be interesting to find out who owned the real 0181 from its sale in 1972/3 by the Porsche centre, Mahag, Germany. until the late nineties before its resting place in Portugal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micktheturbo
Was the T sold to Sweden a silver car owned by Michael Burdon in the UK?
Regards
Mike
Hi Mike,
Yes! It was Michaels`s T, currently up for sale at garage 11 in Sweden, I believe its on its second owner in Sweden with a new engine instalation.
Looks Nice!
Kind regards
Mick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micktheturbo
Thanks Mick. I still have the magazine article Michael made on the restoration and transformation of the car from when he imported it from the USA right up to the installation of the RS engine.
It was a lovely car. I wonder what spec engine is in it now.
Regards
Mike
The T has a SC based 3ltr twin plug engine built by Allan Faragallah of Aase Motors in Los Angeles installed now according to Garage 11 in Sweden.
Kind regards
Mick
Super obvious that the boss has been ground down substantially. Regardless of whether the type looks correct, this alone indicates a re-stamping.Quote:
Originally Posted by cscrogham
Porsche 911 2.7 RS Chassis number 9113600181, Engine number 6630191 that was in the T of Michael Burdon was purchased by Michael in 2003 from a Porsche Carrera Cup competitor David Botterill run by Strasse in Leeds, UK. David had kept the 2.7 RS Engine as a spare race engine and subsequently sold it to Michael.
Does anyone have contact for David or remember selling the 2.7 RS spec engine to him? It may help with dicovering when the Engine became detatched from the original chassis # 0181
Mick