How much is a early 911 really worth??????

With all this talk about values of early 911S,911E,911T in coupe or targa,I for one can't wait until Bruce Anderson comes out with his latest findings on these early cars. Will there be a BIG jump in values or small increase? Take the guy who on auto trader buys a 911E for $12,000 but turns around and sells it for over $30,000 on ebay. That wasn't a perfect fully restored car or unmolested totally original car. Will Bruce only count the auto trader buy because the ebay buy was a auction? What about the values in PML? Oh and I say again, that the nineteen seventy-two S, is the BEST! :D

[hands over hears, begin chanting]Nah-nah-nah-nah-nah-nah-nah...[/end chanting, leave the room]

Here's an ebay auction you can follow...Jean Ellis once owned this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=4558671015

How much is a early 911 really worth??????

With or without market manipulation? :p

I'm seeing some really high prices for early T's lately. Not perfect ones either and it makes me wonder. I've got a 71 T targa, nice driver, no rust or anything but has been sitting for a while so will need some attention, runs and drives.
I'm wondering now how to price this one. I thought I knew what it was worth (much less than the hype) but now am not sure. Any help?
Tom

I want to see someone list one of these cars at $1 w/ no reserve on Ebay. That would be a crazy auction (for what it's worth, the data I have seen says no reserve auctions actually sell for HIGHER prices that reserve auctions).

If you have an original car up for a no reserve auction,I can`t believe that the mental wear,lack of sleep,cost of drug prescriptions,irritability,crying children and generally foul mood would compensate for the potential upside.What if the car world goes to sleep for 6 days while you give the farm away unless you already fall into the "does not play well with others " category to start with.Brings back memories of the song " Suicide is painless" !

"I'm wondering now how to price this one. I thought I knew what it was worth (much less than the hype) but now am not sure. Any help?"

Have you seen this one? Maybe a point of reference for you?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...hreadid=228458

Offer of $7K sight unseen...spun bearing and all

Hmm, certainly with a vested interest we all would like to see these cars climb in price...except those cars that we want to buy! (could the RS's come down a little "please"?).

I think this market is different than the late 80's early 90's run up. A lot of those increases and sales were driven by speculators. Most of the cars I have seen sold, and those who buy them...are buying for personal reasons.

Times are different than they were over a decade ago...baby boomers are retiring....their kids are out of college (not mine!), and many have inheritances heading their way. Not to mention that their earning power may be higher now as well.

Also...it's better to buy a finished car rather than a project. Restoration costs are massive! Try taking a driver and turning it into a "full street restoration" car...it will cost more than the current "high" prices we have seen. Certainly there are those on this board who are talented enough to do all the work themselves....but what of the opportunity costs involved?

So....what are they worth? Each car is different... and each commands what the market will bear. Paul likes to point out "condition, condition, condition", and while I share that...let me add "option, options, options". With the rarity (and cost) of toolkits, sport seats, h-1's, large gas tanks, radio's, correctly finished Fuchs, ....there can be quite a spread between two similar cars in similar shape....the car with the options can command quite a difference in price.

My .02...

Soterik,

You've covered it...well said :) . This is exactly what seems to have happened downunder and I'm sure that even though the toilets flush the other way (as Chuck likes to point out to me from time to time :p ) our market is no different in relative terms to ROW.

Cheers,
Lisa

So, if one were to take the format ala Excellence: Poor, Fair, Good, Excellent..

Where (currently) at least does the early 911 fall?

I've owned a few 911's (and one 912). 3 of them were short hoods, three long hoods. Just 2-3 years ago, decent "T" longhoods were often below 10g's. Obviously drivers, but clean cars.

Now, where is the actual range?

I understand condition, but using the format above, what is too much for a T? Or for that matter the E and the S.

There were quite a few T's made, so how do folks view the current value leap (or current hype)?

Is there the level of disposable income now (ie baby boomers)that the those who may be new to the early car market are spending $$$ without putting values in context of production?

Or is there really that few good cars availbale to the point that one should "get theirs now" before it is too late?

What do those who have a better handle on the quantity and quality of these cars think?

A.B.

P.S. paid up and feels good...

As is the case in many of the non-essential purchases we make, emotions play a big part in how much we're willing to ante up. Doesn't matter if it's cars, vintage bamboo fly rods, porcelain signs, etc., it you've been lookin' long enough for that "just so" item, and it's within your reach, it's likely that (within reason, of course) price guides be damned.

The obvious problem that Excellence, or any other guide presents, is that without current data in sufficient numbers, it's darn near a crapshoot. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have never yet reported a sale price to those who publish guides. Two years ago I sold a '71 T for lots more than the Excellence guideline and the buyer, a knowledgable Porsche guy, was happy as a clam. It may have been a market leading price at the time, but he has enjoyed it greatly in the past two years and could no doubt stuff a fair profit in his wallet if he were now to sell.

I think that all of the early 911, non RS cars are still somewhat undiscovered by the great majority - present company excluded, of course. Five years ago I paid what, at the time was a guide bustin' price for my original SR '68 S, but I was just a bit ahead of the times; (almost) seems like bargain $'s to me now...

I would sooner see prices go up somewhat slowly than begin the trend of (for instance) some 356s. Four years ago you could buy a darn nice A Coupe in the mid twenties and now the first digit for such a car is likely a 4. Good I suppose if you owned one, but lots of first timers are now pinched out of the market and I don't see that as a positive development.

Jim

Well I don't know about less than perfect E's fetching 30K. Here is what I have sold in the last 12 months 71T w/ real S motor, mechanically excellent $16.5K, 73T with carbed 2.7 no rust $14.5K, 71E no rust low miles, mechanically very good, needed paint, $12.5, 72 T, with S options, very good condition $13.3 these are real sales no B.S.
Phil

certainly good points made so far. Eric has indicated for Pual that condition is key and also included rare options ('cause Eric is the rare option king). All are correct...I wish to add that a very good/or nearly complete car service and ownership history can make a large contribution to the value factor.

We have, I think, a proper order;

condition
options
documentation

More needed. Shawn.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...559872688&rd=1

Or, how much for a few days rental. :o

Shawn.

Good input by everyone. I know these things may not fall on a defined scale. I am looking seriously at a non-sunroof T where I would be the second registered owner. S-trim, air, no rust (or none that can be found).

Certainly not concours, but very a very nice driver. mechanicals very good-recent overhaul, tranny excellent.

To me the price is fairly high for a T (to me anyhow-read above the mid-teens in $$), but perhaps I need to adjust to the current times and market.

A.B.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AbbyAk

Certainly not concours, but very a very nice driver. mechanicals very good-recent overhaul, tranny excellent.
A.B.

---

Abby:

Not saying that my knowledge is that complete, but people that I have talked to who were selling "T's" in the last year have told me that "the engine and paint are original, because it isn't worth fixing it for what T's cost now-a-days."

Maybe times are changing, but I doubt that you would find one with a recent overhaul for mid teens. Correct me if I'm wrong, but an overhaul would be half the price of the car!!!!

larry

I think you have good point. This car has been painted and done fairly well. Guess I just hadn't been in the "marketplace" recently enough and did not realize that a good/decent "T" is now approaching a price level that I did not forsee.

Don't get me wrong, I love all the early 911's T, E , S, "normal" etc.. the classic lines are something I never ever tire of.

I had my chances for early S a few years ago, and should have bought a prisitine 67' for 16k. It was literally in my lap. But, as they say: "if "if" and "buts" were candy and nuts, it would be X-mas every day."

Frankly , I now see a good S as something pretty much out of my range(at the moment), a good E as a stretch, and a good T as more than I had thought. I am certainly not destitute, my wife and I do very well, we do have 2 little children and they do come first.

I kind of see the T as a great car, but certainly, with the quantity of them that were built, thought they would remain at a certain price level for longer than they have. Of course aside from tweaks, the T has the same awesome engineering and styling as the other models, so perhaps I should not be surprised.

Abby,
You last lines summed up my situation too. The cliches like " a rising tide raises all boats" is surely in effect. Although I am self employed and think I am wise with my $, I have to think how the toys and thier purchase price as well as long term improvements and maintainance costs fit in with being a responsible head of a household. I opted for an exceptional 73T rather than take the same amount of money and get a lesser quality E or S. Although I too wound up paying a high price for my car, it is low mileage, original paint car in my favorite color with owner and service history to day one. Condition, options and documented history will always carry a wortwhile premium in my opinion. Color changes and replacement engines, no matter how well done can have an adverse effect on value in the long run when it comes time to send it on to a new owner. Do your research and with that new found knowledge, buy what makes YOU happy. Good luck, Daron

I Am The One Catching All The Flack About The 1973 "E" Sunroof That Supposedly Is Causing Part Of The Stir On This And Other Sites Regarding The Early 911 Market..

First Of All This Car Is Not! I Repeat Not! Just A Normal 1973 "E" The Car Is In Excellent Original Unrestored Condition.. I Said Original Not Perfect!

The Car Has Very Good And Very Shinny 95% Original Paint ( The Hood Was Spotted) There Are A Few Minor Scratches /nicks But Again You Only Get Original Paint One Time!

The Car Is Loaded With Very Rare Factory Options Like;

1. Factory Special Order Color (ivory)
2. Factory Special Order Brown Full Leather Interior ( Door Panels, Back Seats, Dash, Ect)
3. Sport Seats
4. Factory Behr Air Conditioning
5. Factory Fender Trim
6. Factory Sunroof
7. Koni Shocks
Plus More..


The Fact That The Car Is Unrestored And Very Original Including The Paint Will Usually Push Any Collector Car To A Totally Different Level Above That Of Most Restored Cars Of The Same Type..

Somtimes A Car That Is All Original And Unrestored Even With A Slight Patina Is Worth More Then A 100 Point Show Car..

Plus! A Heavily Optioned Car Will Always Demand A Premium To Any Serious Collector..

Then There Is The Serial Number Issue..
The Very Early And Very Late Serial Numbered Cars Will Often Increase The Cars Value..

This Car Is Very Very Late The 10th From The Last 73 " E".. #1,355..

The Guy Who Sold Me The Car Knew About The Original Paint But Never Realized That The Car Has Full Leather.. Also In His Ad He Neglected To Mention That The Car Has A Sunroof! He Also Never Knew The Serial Number Was Very Late.. The Seller Relied On Bruce Anderson And Other Publications To Set His Price..

Because The Seller Was Ill Informed About What He Was Selling Left Money On The Table..

I Could Tell From The Photos That The Car Was Probably Full Leather And I Asked When I Saw The Sunroof Switch If The Car Had A Sunroof? He Also Never Mentioned That He Had Every Record All The Way Back To 1973!

Marketing Any Item With An Accurate And Full Description Of The Positive Aspects Of The Item Usually Will Bring A Higher Price..

Placing An Ad Like " 69 Porsche 911 In Fair Condition Needs Full Restoration" Would Probably Not Bring Much Interest Or Money..

But Add " This Car Is All Original And Was Originally Owned And Raced By Steve Mcqueen Or Mark Donahue And Won Lemans" Might Get A Bit More Interest..

Again The Same Car In The Exact Same Condition Could Bring Ten Times The Money If Marketed Correctly..

Just My $.02

Nice ad. Where's the balloons and llamas? I did like the lame attempt to make it pertinent to the thread :p

Man, everyone on this site seems really tightly wound of late. Between talk of black Audis, flippers and skyrocketing prices for cars and parts, things feel markedly tense around here. It's summer; time to relax and drive.
Cheers.

Yeah,

Micheal the first post in the this thread was a cheap shot at Exec., who has already been raked over the coals. I view your comment with the same intent. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NiceT

Color changes and replacement engines, no matter how well done can have an adverse effect on value in the long run when it comes time to send it on to a new owner. Daron

---

Daron:

I guess that your comment about the value to the new owner shouldn't surprise me. But, I think that for many of the people on this board, we don't have plans to sell our favorite Porsche. I don't know the numbers, but I wonder how many of the members have only 1 Porsche?

It kinda reminds me of my wife buying me an antique gold pocket watch for our 30th anniversary. She wanted to have it engraved, and asked the dealer whether it would affect the value. He responded, "When do you plan on selling it?"

The same is true for Kermit. The current value is a curiosity, and for replacement insurance purposes. I have no plans to sell.

larry

MICHEAL,
In Your Case It Is Better To Have People Think That Youre A Moron Then For You To Make Statements That Prove It..

Your Mother Should Take You By The Ear And Force You To Read The First Post On This Thread Regarding The Subject of Current 911 Values..

The Post Makes A Direct Reference To My Car And The Prices That They Think The Car Was Bought And Sold For..

I Am Trying To Set The Record Straight On What Really Happened And Why..

The Car Did Not Meet My Reserve At $32,000 And I Have Been Offered More Then This Amount In Writing..

That Is Why My Response Is Pertinent...

Now Go To Your Room!

Yeh - this stuff really makes me want to continue my membership...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fryardds

Yeah,

Micheal the first post in the this thread was a cheap shot at Exec., who has already been raked over the coals. I view your comment with the same intent. :(

---

How do you view the first post as a cheap shot at Exec. I was just using the example that a car was bought thru Auto Trader for $12,000 then sold(well not sold,but had offers of over $30,000 actual bids)on Ebay, would Bruce Anderson only count the Auto Trader deal and not an auction transaction or any auction transactions,just because he meaning Bruce may think that auctions are driven by so many other factors,than just the value of the car itself. The reason this thread was started,there was some Bruce bashing a few years ago in this registry about the values of the 67-73 911S in Excellance most if not all members felt he under valued our cars,it was such a big deal that Bruce even gave a reply to all the complaining in the following issue of Excellance(rare thing to happen).Bruce stated that his data was correct and stood by his values,but did say that if a car sells and he doesn't know about it he can't count it(some people don't like to say what they pay especially at the high end),he also said that there were some cars that are restored beyond excellent or in pristine totally original condition and that these cars are worth more,but also that these cars are very rare so he basically didn't count them in his survey.So I was trying say that maybe now with the rising prices people are getting for there cars be it T,E,or S ,that Bruces price values will refect this skyrocketing.Now for those of you who already own an early car this will be great and for those that don't this will be bad. Oh and the 1972S,is the best ;)

I did miss that reference in the first post Exec. I apologize for my "pertinent" remark. :o :o I'm usually more thorough. I think I was tired of reading the retread of that particular car and your explanations. After re-reading his post, I don't think he was taking a cheap shot at you though. I can understand if your nerves are a bit raw.

Two years ago I felt the same frustration as others are feeling now when I was looking for a car. I had almost given up on a S and had started looking at Es and Ts when I bought my 70S. People thought I was a nut for buying it at $16k with questionable history and in storage since 85. I got extremely lucky and I'll admit on one hand I'm glad prices are rising but, the feelings I had are still vivid in my memory. I'll bet no one now thinks I paid too much. I sure don't. I can throw 20k at this car and sleep well at night. Not that I care cause this one is the only one I really want.

Having the passion but, not quite the means is tough. Some can just write a check for exactly what they want and that's OK in my book. Most of them earned that right through hard work. I would rather build my own car for the sense of accomplishment. (OK, I'll admit I'm a picky, anal bastard) I've seen cars I passed on for sale for more than double the asking price in the last two years. Good for sellers, tough to stomach for buyers.

There has been an unreasonable jump in prices lately due to the economy and a misguided notion that there are so few good examples of these cars out there. This is causing a frenzy especially in the early cars as they are the current fad for some. There are those who are taking advantage of that. That's capitalism and I'm all for that. What I strongy oppose is market manipulation by key players, collectors, whatever for their own purposes. Just because a car was once owned by a "someone" (other than a true Porsche legend) does not make it more valuable in my eyes. The collector "needs" to have the best or the most and he will do whatever it takes to make that goal. Previously owned cars get hyped which drives prices up so that collectors can make more on cars they decide to sell so that they can buy better examples. Yes, they are paying a bit more on the better examples do to the rise in prices but, not in the same ratio as what they paid for the "fillers".

Hope we are square Exec. I do stand by my "llamas and ballons". :D

I easily admit when I am in the wrong. I'm not one to be easily shut down and if you are going to quote Twain it should be done properly ;)

"There has been an unreasonable jump in prices lately due to the economy and a misguided notion that there are so few good examples of these cars out there."

This where I am concerned. I do NOT see the car as an investment. I know enough to understand that to do so is a bad play. I just wonder if I am better to wait and see if the market cools before I buy a T at level that frankly, just a few years ago bought a solid driver S.

I know only I can decide this, but being where I am at, it sure is difficult to know just how many good cars actually do exist, and whether the current frenzy is warranted.

It is a strange time to be in the market for an early car as the prices seem to be all over the board...

Gymmoe and Michael,

I am glad I was wrong in my interpretation of your comments. I was beginning to be to think this place was turning into a not so nice place to hang out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AbbyAk

I just wonder if I am better to wait and see if the market cools before I buy a T at level that frankly, just a few years ago bought a solid driver S.

---

IMHO

Only you'll know when it's time to stop wringing your hands over all of this, and decide to do what's best for you. You've said you don't see a car as an investment, so if and when you find an example that you really like and really want, spend the $ and be done with it...provided it falls within your budget.

Find it, buy it, drive it, and and fun with it! If you wind up paying what some might view as a premium for the car you really like and want....who cares?

"Bruce stated that his data was correct and stood by his values..."

- Yes, he did. I've written him asking about sources of bias in the data (geographic, self-selection, small sample sizes, etc.) but he's never replied or written in the column about those possibilities. I assume he's aware of these problems and could do some analysis of them, since he's a former technical writer for hp. So we don't know how good the data are...

Actually I think the prices of old 911's are way cheap. I collect alot of different cars and believe me the 911's are by far the least expensive, and that by a WIDE margin. A very WIDE margin.
These cars I feel are undiscovered classics. Why? They are cheap, robust, good looking, and great driving. You cannot buy ANYTHING that even comes close for the money.
Let's take a T, say a 69-73, what are they, 12-20k? What are the alternatives. A spitfire? MGB? Miata? Pacer? No vintage mustangs, camaros, cudas, ferraris, astons, panteras etc. Those are all much much higher.
Really there is not much in that price range. I tell everyone who wants a vintage sports car to get a Porsche. They have me hooked. I drive them everyday, even the show cars. Drive em, wash em, then show em. They work well and don't break. What more can you ask for?
That said I just pulled one of my old Ferraris out of the garage and washed it up. I'll take it to the track tomorrow for a few hot laps. I havn't driven it since last year at the track. See what these Porsches have done to me.

I'd be curious to know if the editor of Excellence shares Bruce's opinion on early 911 values.

#259

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tom dance

....I think the prices of old 911's are way cheap.....the 911's are by far the least expensive, and that by a WIDE margin. A very WIDE margin.
These cars I feel are undiscovered classics. Why? They are cheap, robust, good looking, and great driving. You cannot buy ANYTHING that even comes close for the money.

---

Well said, I agree whole heartedly Tom!

MICHEAL,

AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED WERE COOL!

I AM A BIT EDGY BECAUSE I HAVE GOTTEN HAMMERED TO DEATH FOR GETTING A GREAT DEAL ON A VERY ORIGINAL AND SOMEWHAT RARE CAR..

SOMETIMES LIKE IN THE CASE OF YOUR " S" YOU CANT PAY TOO MUCH JUST TOO SOON!!.. I PAID $15K IN 1991 FOR MY 73 " S" TARGA..

I KNEW MY STATEMENT WAS CLOSE BUT I DIDNT REALIZE THAT I WAS MISQUOTING MARK TWAIN..

P.S.
IM FRESH OUT OF LLAMAS SO IM USING CLOWNS! :p

"ferraris, astons, panteras" were all made in very limited quantities rel to 911s. But that doesn't apply to the others you listed.

My only concern is that higher prices attract people who don't care about the cars...

Tom: That is an excellent analysis.

I feel now if I get a really good car I should be happy, even if it is the top end of the $12-$20k spectrum.

Having owned mustangs including an authetic 1970 Boss 302 (which I won't say what I sold for many years ago--it kills me), , a one owner 65 289 fastback, and 1970 coupe I can say that (to me)the 911 is more fun to drive and look at.

Perhaps not as simple mechanically, (esp the motor), but I am totally hooked on the early Porsche cars.

Understand that my post is a result of seeing so many numbers, and I do know (like in many hobbies)that cars tend to change hands within a certain community and many of us are not aware of the numbers on the "wholesale" level if you will. Thus it can be difficult to determine what is a good buy and what may be inflated.

That said, Tom has an excellent point. Like I said earlier, if you look at the 911 (whether T,E, or S) the engineering and styling is essentially the same. So perhaps the value is there regardless, and more folks are beginning to see it.

I'm on it. Will post pics when I pull the trigger...

P.S. Probably should have looked harder at Shawn's 67', way back when it was here in Anchorage. Good car, fun to drive... :)

Good comments all. This topic has been revisited over and over, and I never get tired of the comments of the "experienced" members of this board. Probably because the market is changing so much so soon. I had always wanted a Porsche - The dream was an early Tangerine Targa (I didn't know from T E or S back in 1969/70). Never thought I could get into one -- ever.

Finally two years ago I was able to pull the trigger. Everyone said it would take a year to find the right one - Took me 30 days - I was lucky. I then spent a year sweating and hoping that the restoration would come out. And it did. For what I paid - I got great value. I am NOT disappointed that I didn't get an S, and I am tickled GREEN, and love driving it.

You need to find a car that is right for you at the time you are looking, at the right price, in the right condition, in the right location, with the right equipment, etc etc. This is all too personal a decision. The car that I am so happy with wouldn't have satisfied the "collectors" on this board that have 10+ early cars. I respect them for their ability to do it. I'm not jealous (OK, I am) but I am happy with Kermit.

larry

You weren't entirely wrong Brian. I was a bit more testy than I should have been and lashed out a bit more than usual at Exec because I scanned over the first post without making the coorelation to the other thread.

I've always laughed at myself far more than others have laughed at me because I realize that I'm only one infintismal step above pulling ants out of a log with a sticky twig. Because of that fact I don't take myself seriously and have never needed to overinflate my tenuous position in the cosmos.

I will add that what had me most upset about the other thread (which I didn't really take part of except to try and lighten up the situation a bit) was the total lack of a response to the accusation of selling an "Adam Sandler Special" to someone else who frequents the board. Not in keeping with the other very quick responses where his position is seemingly more secure. :confused: So, I am still curious about that and rightly so I think.

I'm also to old to have to go to my room anymore although it is a very cozy place with a lot of homemade copper accents and Porsche bits under my dresser. :D

edited for the long ass time it took for me to post.
As an aside it took me an hour to finish this post as I was in the middle of cooking steaks on the barbi so I haven't digested all the responses after Brian's.

edited for the long ass time it took for me to read the other posts I missed..

We're still cool Exec although I'm still curious about the other car mentioned. Larry is "the MAN" for his passion which keeps me going on mine (sorry to hear about the Fuchs but, makes a nice excuse to call Harvey). I do agree to some extent that prices between the models should be a little closer because of the great engineering shared but, not by much due to the numbers built. Hell, I'd have been happy to get an E at the time I got the S. Just kinda fell into my lap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by larry47us

The car that I am so happy with wouldn't have satisfied the "collectors" on this board that have 10+ early cars.

larry

---

Oh really.....?

Eric

Oh, come on Eric.

Tom Dance hassled me early on because I didn't wait to buy one of those totally rust free cars from Texas that come available from time to time. And you think that Frank, who collects RS's and original cars with less than 30K miles on it would be interested in Kermit? Prolly not. You and I spent lots of time talking cars when we were discussing fabrics. I have an understanding of the level of car and restoration that interests you.

But that doesn't bother me. My point was that each of us is in this for different reasons, different levels of gratification, different "wants" in that next car. And that's OK. But what is very satisfying to one of us, may very well be a yawn to others.

(Oh, Michael -- Thanks for the comment. It's great to have others who share our passion. After all, isn't that what this board is all about?? ;) )

larry

Larry, You're off by miles..... I can only speak for myself, but I own and have owned all kinds of cars in all kinds of shapes, and have bought them for a variety of reasons...color, the year (make, or model), originality, rare options, price, etc. I would own your car in a hearbeat, and I'll bet Tom and Frank would as well.....and we would all enjoy it. As a matter of fact, I have a 69S targa for sale (recently posted), and it's hardly a trailer queen, but I enjoy driving it, and I don't worry about it.... Note that I sold one of my best cars about a year ago (59 A coupe, trailer queen), and used the cash to buy 2 cars that weren't even remotely in the same shape...but they get driven, where the 59 just "sat".

Just something to think about....

Eric

Eric:

My apologies for misjudging your view of my car. I love it, but didn't realize that others (who have collected for years) would hold it in as high esteem.

Just makes me feel that much better. Hope that some day I can show it to you in person.

larry

Here is a fresh car for sale--saw it today-July 7, 05 On the street a 73 911E Targa . Bad rust repairs, wrong seats, wrong dash,no h-4, had orignal wheels,targa top was ratty, paint job terrible, replaced front fender, bumpy doors missing shift knob $6900. This is in West LA

Here's a post started 11 years ago. What a difference a decade makes!

Poor Bruce Anderson used to be beaten up all the time about 911 values. He was at Excellence and I was over at European Car. We had several discussions about the amount of hate mail he used to get.

Actually nothing much has changed with this discussion. The numbers have just gotten bigger. Discussing the value of 911s is almost the same as discussing religion. I know. I've been beaten up more than once of all of this. I've finally just stopped talking about it. Bruce was a stronger man. :)

Richard Newton
FIA Historic Rules

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lisa_spyder

Soterik,

You've covered it...well said :) . This is exactly what seems to have happened downunder and I'm sure that even though the toilets flush the other way (as Chuck likes to point out to me from time to time :p ) our market is no different in relative terms to ROW.

Cheers,
Lisa

---

I know this is way off track, but I loved opening this thread and seeing a post from Lisa ... she is missed. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richardnew

Poor Bruce Anderson used to be beaten up all the time about 911 values. He was at Excellence and I was over at European Car. We had several discussions about the amount of hate mail he used to get.

Actually nothing much has changed with this discussion. The numbers have just gotten bigger. Discussing the value of 911s is almost the same as discussing religion. I know. I've been beaten up more than once of all of this. I've finally just stopped talking about it. Bruce was a stronger man. :)

Richard Newton
FIA Historic Rules

---

I recall a conversation around 1995, Bruce saying he didn't own a Porsche at that time, or his wife did but he didn't something like that. Anyway, he said when asked what Porsche car would he recommend, he replied the newest, lowest mileage one you could put in your driveway. He seemed, in my opinion, very "practical". This forum is not "practical", I digress...

how much ? so much that you dare not drive um ! break out the dusting clothe and crack open the beer and get ready to do the walk around

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by boxster03

how much ? so much that you dare not drive um ! break out the dusting clothe and crack open the beer and get ready to do the walk around

---

Not me, my 67S will be my daily driver once I place all the parts in storage boxes back on the car.

even on snow covered salted roads ? ;)

Not where I live-no snow and no salt

Anything is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it at a specified time.

In my area a 1.3mil home that sold for that price sold for 625k in early 2009. No one ever lived in it, 3 previous brokers made money, the last guy got foreclosed on.

With the price of parts these days you would think Porsche only built 600 cars a year. Some Ferrari stuff is at par or less than some 911 asking prices right now. Just current supply and demand I suppose. None of this stuff is all that expensive to make in any quantity. The resto kings of muscle car will soon come aboard to reduce margins for the parts sellers. These cars were going for less than half 5 years ago . Once that happens the prices will be more stable or drop some IMO. Saw it with muscle cars many times over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CobraR1339

Anything is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it at a specified time.

In my area a 1.3mil home that sold for that price sold for 625k in early 2009. No one ever lived in it, 3 previous brokers made money, the last guy got foreclosed on.

With the price of parts these days you would think Porsche only built 600 cars a year. Some Ferrari stuff is at par or less than some 911 asking prices right now. Just current supply and demand I suppose. None of this stuff is all that expensive to make in any quantity. The resto kings of muscle car will soon come aboard to reduce margins for the parts sellers. These cars were going for less than half 5 years ago . Once that happens the prices will be more stable or drop some IMO. Saw it with muscle cars many times over.

---

This is a very logical summary.

However, if the market were logical, then the market landscape would look very different. In the muscle car category, there was a big surge of old guys paying big money for cars they wanted when they had hair and flat bellies. And you know, a big chunk of them were trying to bring back their former selves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1968DT

I recall a conversation around 1995, Bruce saying he didn't own a Porsche at that time, or his wife did but he didn't something like that. Anyway, he said when asked what Porsche car would he recommend, he replied the newest, lowest mileage one you could put in your driveway. He seemed, in my opinion, very "practical".

---

That was his problem, he didn't 'see' the values.
Just regarded them as 'old' cars...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CobraR1339

Anything is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it at a specified time.

In my area a 1.3mil home that sold for that price sold for 625k in early 2009. No one ever lived in it, 3 previous brokers made money, the last guy got foreclosed on.

With the price of parts these days you would think Porsche only built 600 cars a year. Some Ferrari stuff is at par or less than some 911 asking prices right now. Just current supply and demand I suppose. None of this stuff is all that expensive to make in any quantity. The resto kings of muscle car will soon come aboard to reduce margins for the parts sellers. These cars were going for less than half 5 years ago . Once that happens the prices will be more stable or drop some IMO. Saw it with muscle cars many times over.

---

You make some very well thought out points regarding prices. However there are a few differences regarding early 911's vs muscle cars.
First; The numbers produced. Most muscle cars were a high volume commodity. A Mopar with a 318 or 340 produced in huge numbers was trading as if it was a 440 six pack. Even the Mustang was so prolific that very few were ever considered collectible by entities such as Sports Car Market. The argument FOR Porsches starts with reasonably low production between 1964 and 1973.
Second, Maintenance is fairly cheap and parts are available. Although major parts have risen dramatically, it is isn't as if we are all needing new carbs and exhaust manifolds every year and there is no requirement that we strip our cars and repaint them when they can be driven as is.
Third, usability. Sports Car Market did an excellent article a few years back about how cars after the mid 1960's can be driven at todays freeway speeds and brake reasonably well while cars from the previous decade do not hold up as well. The Porsche 911 from 1965-1973 can go anywhere a modern car can go.
In summary, The 911 may fall by a third (33%) from its recent highs but it will hold up better than almost anything else.
I'd like to end with an anecdote from another collector. In 2012 I was considering buying his 1961 300SL. I asked him why he was selling because he was a wealthy guy who did not need the money. His answer was; "Its more fun to drive an early 911 and they cost a fraction of a 300SL".