It's All About the Driving

This is probably going to sound like Andy Rooney....

I'm getting sick and tired of the constant chatter about what cars are worth in $$$ terms. Sports Car Market magazine (which used to be one of my favorites), the various online forums, just about everywhere you turn. A lot of this stuff (Barrett-Jackson in Arizona is the poster event) is (a lot) more about egos than it is cars.

We had a slight break in the weather here in Central Oregon earlier this week and I was able to drive my '60 Super 90 Roadster and my '73 2.7 S a bit. They're completely different, but they are both a pure joy to drive. I've probably had 20+ vintage Porsches pass through my custodialship over the past 20+ years, and over time how they drive has become far and away the most important aspect in how I value a car (which is why I have the three that I currently have).

I've had some concours cars that just didn't have the correct "Porsche Feel" -- I sold them. And I've had a Level 4 driver that did -- I restored it (carefully, very carefully). Sure, I like 'em to look good, and I like 'em to be original. But most of all, I like 'em to drive great. In my crazier moments I sometimes think that's what they were designed for. Which is why a good vintage Porsche will always be more valuable than some 60's or 70's muscle car -- regardless of what people are paying for them.

OK, enough ranting....

Cheers,
John Audette

Well said John. I had my '71 out for an extended shakedown run today. Haven't driven it since November. It didn't take long to remember why I love these cars - it's the driving stupid! ;)

I agree with you 100% if you are wanting a magazine to tell you that all the money you are spending on your car is worth it you might want to get into something else.

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Originally Posted by 911quest

I agree with you 100% if you are wanting a magazine to tell you that all the money you are spending on your car is worth it you might want to get into something else.

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like chinese porcelain maybe.

Been out there cruisin and a lovin it myself up here in Ontario, Canada. The salt's gone and the Stabil crap in my tank is just about run out...time for some fresh gas and a, uh, spirited run down the local highway and backroads. My car's worth nothing to anybody because it ain't for sale. Ha! :D

Thank you John! I am growing so very tired of the "did you hear what the vasek polak license plate, sport seats, R wheels, orig hood badge , etc sold for?" conversations. It's become less about the fun of driving these cars and more about what people spend on these cars.

Right....:rolleyes:

Paul

Commercial 21" snapper with a Honda Engine
Green Machine grass trimmer
Echo Chain Saw
Ariens Tiller
Craftsperson tools
Craftsperson shop vac named Monica
Video of "Lemans"
Old computer
Old wife
Vanguard equties/bonds account worth none of your biz
Junky old house on trashy rural land
Two 4 wheeled conveyances of various domestic makes & years, just appliances
Frigidaire & Kitchenaid appliances
Oh...almost forgot...and old piece of **** 911 that I haven't touched in weeks because I have the urge to spit on it whenever I walk by it.

This is the best thread I have ever read!!!!!
What the car does for me at a red line shift with the Ass hanging out is what drives my passion.

The root of the value of these cars is in the experience. It is the experience that is driving the values. What else gives you that feel for under a $50k? A Pontiac Solstice? or maybe a Mazda zoom zoom.

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Originally Posted by pwd72s

Right....:rolleyes:

Oh...almost forgot...and old piece of **** 911 that I haven't touched in weeks because I have the urge to spit on it whenever I walk by it.

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Paul....

I suspect that the real reason you haven't driven it for weeks is because you're afraid it might get wet.

Cheers,
John Audette

Well I was inspired today....a good buddy and Porsche nut stopped by this morning to pick up a couple of tools....what was he driving to fetch the tools...his great early 911....there it was begging my 69' 911 to come out an play....well chores called....then he called....come over and lets tear down this 911 engine I just bought.....well....the cover came off the 69' and gate was opened and.....WOW....there I was rolling down the expressway....and yes it was like magic and lightening striking all at once....the pure joy of the the old 6 ringing out the revs......what a fun afternoon driving the Porsche and tearing down the new barn find engine.....

Yes Gang it is all about driving them!!!

Regards,

John

I couldn't agree more, the value in these beasts is not monetary is the grin you have when you get out from driving.
Phil

It matters to the extent that you can use the data to convince an ins. co. to pay fo the damage or for the car if you had to get another one.

Thank the Gods...I haven't really been frequenting the board(s) of late because I agree 150%. It seems as the market presumably flourishes for these cars, the conversation narrows to what's it worth/not worth, does it have every goddamn nut and screw in the right place, right colour, right size, right groove, 'right move'...and all the rest of the baloney :( .

It's getting worse..and it's getting boring! Like many others, I really do appreciate the "original, unmolested cars". But I don't own one and I don't really care to as I drive mine for fun and enjoyment and I don't give a rat's ass how many miles it's done etc etc. I'm a second generation "driver" and my cars wear the marks of being used and enjoyed...and I too don't give a hoot what they're worth! One day, maybe we'll sell a car and then the market will determine its value. Correction - one buyer will determine the true worth of the car for him/her and that will be it.

So many of us have said this before: it's not about the money - it's about the cars...their lifeblood, mystique, charm and addictive idiosyncrasies. And it's about the great people who own and cherish them...let's hear much more about them and the enjoyment of their cars!

Cheers,
Lisa

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Originally Posted by lisa_spyder

So many of us have said this before: it's not about the money - it's about the cars...their lifeblood, mystique, charm and addictive idiosyncrasies. And it's about the great people who own and cherish them...let's hear much more about them and the enjoyment of their cars!

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I couldn't agree more. Good thread!

Great thread...this is why I bought my old survivor 911E, to DRIVE the
car as Dr. Porsche intended. Values and such are not entering my mind when
I'm watching the tach climb past 5000 rpms & setting up for the next corner.

Anyone know how to rid myself of the perma-grin after this drive? :D

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Originally Posted by nullh20

like chinese porcelain maybe.

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NO, NO, NO! Tabs had it right-- it's all about the SPOONS, baby!

TT

Great thread and probably the only thread that actually matters.

Like many, I pipe in every so often about the esoteric stuff when I have something to offer that hasn't been beaten to death on this board, BUT I bought my '72S with 48K miles almost ten years ago to drive it. I learned how to really drive a 911 in that car - took it to the track, autocrossed it, became an instructor in it, drove it from the Seattle to Las Vegas and Ventura for early 911S events. And now that it's been restored I still drive it (drove it to Monterey), and sometimes it gets wet! Big deal - it's not made out of clay - it's what owning one of these cars is all about. Everything else is just something to talk about when you don't have anything better to do - like driving your early 911! :)

Well my 1969 911S still has its engine out on the engine stand so on beautiful Philadelphia (city of brother love) day's like today with the sun shinning and the temp in the 70s my car of choice is my 1963 356B Super. It's a blast to drive b/c the drivng experience is totally absorbing since you need to keep it in the power band between 3k and 5k. I love this car. There is no car I own that gets more looks or comments from other people. People routinely roll down their windows at stop lites and ask what year it is or just give me a thumbs up. It just feel good.


Don:)

After 30.000KM, I'm still learning how to drive the 911. Just drove down the Alps from Geneva to the South of France, and I can't drive smoothly downhill! It's still all breaks in tight turns...Uphill is much easier and is easier to control while it skids...It's all great pleasure though!

I drive my '72T as much as possible....early am weekend cruises along A1A, into town running errands, and even to and from the office several days a week.

Accordinig to "the experts", I probably paid too much for it; but frankly, their opinions regarding its monetary value are meaningless and irrelevant to me.

Since enhancing it with a pair of GTS Monte Carlo sport seats, a Wevo short shifter, and a Prototipo wheel, my early 911 is definitely the most fun and excitement I've ever had driving any vehicle! In fact, I find myself choosing to drive the 911 instead of my 930 nearly every time.

The only downside is our hot steamy weather will soon return to SOFL, which can make running around in the 911 (with no AC) a rather sweaty experience! Secondly, with premium unleaded now up to $3.25/gallon locally, joy rides in the 911 can get rather expensive! I've never bothered to calculate it, but it's probably only getting around 10 mpg. Is this rate of fuel consumption "normal" for a tuned 2.4 with MFI and about 4K post-rebuild miles?

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Originally Posted by a911s

BUT I bought my '72S with 48K miles almost ten years ago to drive it. I learned how to really drive a 911 in that car - took it to the track, autocrossed it, became an instructor in it... :)

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If you want a bigger return on your 911 investment go out and do like Randy.
Driving a 911 to its potential is a great return on your investment.
It's not about who is having the most fun driving their 911 but about driving your 911 the best it can be driven. Taking a 911 oriented performance driving school will help you reach your potential in your 911. If you have never "learned how to really drive a 911 in that car - took it to the track, autocrossed it, became an instructor in it" ride with someone like Randy and experience all you have to gain.

All this talk about pretty cars, their values and little discussion about the correct way to operate them?
Sometime it seems like an antique car forum, not a sports car bbs.

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Originally Posted by jaudette3

Paul....

I suspect that the real reason you haven't driven it for weeks is because you're afraid it might get wet.

Cheers,
John Audette

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40 days & 40 nights were nothing compared to the Willamette Valley this rainy season, that's for sure. The one plus is the snow pak in the hills...no "drought" talk from the Suzy Shallow TV types this year.
Maybe it's just too much "been there done that" for me. When I paid my PCA dues this year, I realized this was the 39th check I sent in... My current car may be a low mileage garage queen, but my first 3 weren't. I've easily logged 1/2 million miles behind a Porsche steering wheel. Driving is just not the big deal to me it used to be. Another reason may be today's PITA congested highways. Oregon driving was a lot more fun when the state's population was 1/3 of what it is now. Here's a pic of ol' Fred getting a ticket back in '75...he dared to exceed the 55 limit on I-5. But look, this IS I-5, a few miles North of Eugene. Note the lack of bumper to bumper in both lanes.

Man, I've been waiting for you' all to start a thread like this ...:)

Most of you know how I feel on this subject ... but it's your forum and you needed to start it

I bought my '73 in Feb. of '89 with 86,000 documented miles on the clock ... so much for low mileage 911's ...:rolleyes:

Today the car has over 182,000 miles in the 17 + years I've owned it ... Counting the time down in '90 for the 'complete' and the 'rebuild' a couple of years ago, that's about 6,000 miles a year average... mix in with that about 2 to 4 times of track days every year...:)

Simply..... driving this old blue car of mine has been some of the most enjoyable, memorable, and exciting times of my life.

Forgetting for a moment how timeless and cool our cars look...

What makes them different in the world of 35 year old sports cars is the careful thought and advanced engineering that went into them when they were produced. The same engineering that makes them different then the Ferraris, Jags, MGs, Healeys, Triumphs, Fiats, Alfas, and all the rest of the same vintage. The same engineering that gives Curt and the Mid West boys, and Randy and the Pac West boys the confidence to make the trip to Sonoma. The same engineering that makes our cars run toe to toe with anything on the road today...

Driving our cars is not only a kick in the pants, but a tribute and a celebration to that engineering...

Cheers, and thanks for starting this thread... ;)

I can't wait for the drive to Sonoma! It will be the biggest Gruppe yet from the Pac West! A few months ago Cris Huergas suggested we tour down. Randy took the ball and mapped out a 3 day cruise down the coast!

The usual sensory overload is gaurunteed to follow for the next 3 days in Santa Rosa! It's going to be great seeing all you guy's and all those sweet early 911!

Some of us are staying a couple of days after Sonoma for the NASA HPDE at Thunderhill on Wednesday. I hope a bunch of you guy's can make it!

Finding the limits is what it's all about for most of us. However, that's not going to happen on the street. Too many Johnies, too many cell phones and no run off!

Chuck is right about the cars. I'm amazed I can drive to the track, run the car at 7000 rpms for a couple of days and drive home. I wouldn't have tried that in my TR4 or 2002!

R Gruppe #259

I hear what everyone's saying.....

I bought a beautiful and original bonnet badge for the 2.7RS, an original english RS drivers suppliment, original UK market english language 2.7RS brochure, brand new NOS door pockets, leather recarros, spent all winter perfecting the paintwork....

....then went out today, on the first near perfect spring day, and spanked the little beastie for a good hour :D

Who cares what it's worth - it's for driving :)

p

Chuck and his relationship with his early 911S has been an inspiration for many of us. I still remember him being the first person in the Early 911S Registry whom I met at the Monterey Historics in '98 featuring Porsche. I had my identically colored 911S for all of a year back then and was amazed at all his experience both on and off the track at that time.

GBurner and Earl are right. You need to go to the track or an autocross to really learn to drive these cars near the limit. We all make mistakes and the streets are simply too poorly maintained and crowded with politically correct folks for that learning to happen with any kind of safety or consistentcy today. Yet, you can still enjoy driving these cars at 7/10ths on the street (even in the rain) as long as you know your car and tires well. You can be sure we will be safe and sane on our PacWest tour down to Sonoma, and we will keep it fun too... Chuck will even be serving as Tourmeister for the last leg of our journey. Now that's what I call enjoying these cars for what they were designed to do! :)

This thread really hits the mark.

For the last week I have been in Southern California driving the kids around in the big Suburban. Not a thrilling driving experience. Yesterday I drove down to Crystal Cove (I think it is in Orange County) for the morning car show. Lots of beautiful cars like new Ferraris and Lambos. The neatest car to me was a scruffy 1969 912 that looked as though it is driven daily. Many of these cars were too clean to have been driven much. Why else does one have a car?

First thing I did when I got back to the Bay Area today was to dig out my 84 Carrera with 220k miles and drive it up Mt Tamalpais. Water and mud was running across the road but there was no traffic and I had a blast and I think the old car thanked me. I did this after driving 430 miles on I-5 in a Chevy Suburban with the family.

I need to add ten words but the pic says it all.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Just got in from a really nice cruise in the ol '71 black bastard. A real treat on a twisty road when it hits full song. Enjoy! :D

Guys,

I can't wipe the smile off my face reading this stuff!

Mike (Gburner) you are so right - the way to maximise the 911 investment is to drive it to its and your fullest potential...

My darling Dad who by his own reckoning clocked over a million miles :eek: in Porsches shared your collective sentiments and so do I. Show me another car that you can drive every day rain or shine, or to the track and back, day in day out :D . We (he and I) did it in 356s and in 911s. Yeah sure its a one-eyed thing, but for a myriad of very good reasons. These cars were the peak of engineering feats and this directly translates into our love of driving them. I have driven all sorts of other stuff and it's left me cold. My only concession is the VW Multivan as it does a job that a P-car can't do for us, but it's far from standard and I keep looking for ways to make it handle more like a 911 :p !

Great stuff guys - keep it coming!

Cheers,
Lisa

I also agree it's all about the driving. I drive my car at least once a week, man thats only 52 times a year:( . Its still the absolute most fun car I have ever own. When I drive it on the road I feel I can do anything in it, if I want to pass a car I pass it:p . After owning it for over 17 years it still gives me a positive affect to my lower extremity:D . The fact that it is worth more than when I bought it is just a bonus:cool: . JIM

There was a time when I used to think that the tilt-out rear windows on the Coupes were for ventilation. Silly boy. It didn't take long to realize that those are there to enhance listening to the sweet music being induced by your right foot.

I can't imagine how remarkable these cars were compared to everything else that was available in the late 60's and early 70's. The 'Merican cars were great for getting to the other side of the intersection first - and you had to appreciate the spacious back seats. :) But you can <b>drive</b> the Porsches!

Early 911's are a Hall of Fame example of function and form meeting at an almost perfect sweet spot.

Cheers,
John Audette

Driving the cars is only half the fun.









The other half is building 'em. :cool:

Agreed - building them is half the fun. Time to start another project. Two cars heading home from the Sycip's Waves to Wine Tour last year through Napa. Drove over 200 miles that day.

I've become so addicted to being on the track that, well, the last two winters have been just brutal waiting for the first day of the new season.

One of our family stories...
We lived in Boise and Dad and my little sister flew over to Salem (no sales tax), to pick up his new 78 SC. On the way home he got stopped by one of Oregons finest, siren lights and all. My little Sis panicked in hysteria and my Dad calmed her by telling her several times, "don't worry Daddy's not going to jail".

Good thread John, let's go for a drive sooooon.

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Originally Posted by bob tilton

Thank you John! I am growing so very tired of the "did you hear what the vasek polak license plate, sport seats, R wheels, orig hood badge , etc sold for?" conversations. It's become less about the fun of driving these cars and more about what people spend on these cars.

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We're just getting claustrophobic because it won't stop raining! :D

After so many threads on value, period correctness, etc, this is a breath of fresh air (which includes the smell of burning pads, fuel rich exhaust, and that one of a kind oily smell in the cabin. :D )

If I may be so bold, I would like to see more threads recounting people's drives and experiences behind the wheel. These cars are exhilerating, and if I am not enjoying driving, the next best thing is reading others experiences behind the wheel. This can be recounting a great drive, learning a new driving technique, or unintendedly scaring the s*** out of yourself, or just having an ear to ear grin because is was the perfect day for a drive.

One of my favorite drives was coming home my black lab mix from the Targa Florio R Gruppe meet, and crusing up the long lazy sweepers of HWY 101 in Nothern Cal. There was no drama, no pedal mashed to the floorboard, just the warm sun, miles of sweeping turns, the V1 picking many overzealous CHPs, and being at one with the car. Now that was a great day which topped-off a great meet. But then there also was the very twisty HWY in Oregon from Crescent City to Grants Pass where we just had to put that pedal down!

Let's start a new post of pics from the driver's seat and keep it going year long - even if it's a boring pic of your commute.

Thanks for posting this thread.

THIS is what Porsches are all about -- above all else. And why they're special in a way no other car is. I've been blessed to drive a lot of them -- as well as a lot of other special cars -- and while a few might approach or even exceed a given Porsche in terms of charm factors behind the wheel, none of them are cars you'll drive as often or as much.

This, to me, is why Porsches are the best cars in the world. Period.

It's also why I quit my business major in college and pursued writing...and why I've remained at Excellence for almost a decade. It's also why so many of the cars owned by members of this board and others have been in the magazine. The ones that are clearly built to be driven are hands-down my favorites. Bring on the rock chips -- the things that get you marked down on a concours field just don't show up in the camera's eye. And when they do, I just smile bigger.

I love the cars that have been restored/preserved/etc, too, but I love the cars that are driven, used, and kept over the years the most.

I hate it when I see a car that's been in the mag up for sale right afterward. Owner's right to do so, and maybe a "smart" move, but it always steals a little something from me...

I spent 8 hours or pure joy yesterday R&R'ing the back pad in my old 1973 914, which I've had for 17 years now. Probably wrong to post this here, (911s have come and gone and will come again), but this was the car that introduced me to the Porsche engineering, steering, handling, braking, construction philosophy, pleasure, and performance. It's well past 250,000 miles now, and still looks great (well, if you like how 914s look... ;) ) and drives great.

So, I moved the Boxster outta the way, fired it up, and ran around the Presidio for a while with no particular place to go.

But whether it's a 356, 912, 911, 914, 986, 996, 964, 968 -- if Porsche was behind it in any way -- I just love being behind its wheel.

Market values, debates over real "Porscheness," etc. just fade away when you are. I guess those are interesting/useful/good ways to pass time when we're not driving, but there's no substitute for using a Porsche for what it was dsigned for.

Your early 911s are some of the best, purest cars to emerge from Stuttgart, so keep the faith...drive em often, drive em with conviction...

pete

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Originally Posted by bob tilton

Let's start a new post of pics from the driver's seat and keep it going year long - even if it's a boring pic of your commute.

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3 photos from the flight deck.

1. Couple years ago before I got the track bug I did some stupid stuff on the street. Here I am looking stupid over the centerline wondering if I can get around Chris O in his RS.
A couple of months ago Chris O and I spent a session of cat and mouse on Big Willow. At the track our speeds were greater (me with 350hp and Chris in his Alex Job prepped 993) but it was safer for both us and the public.

2. The lower photo is more like it.
Couple years ago at the Buttonwillow track with my instructor putting a little pressure on another (somewhat loose) street/track prepped early 911.
The scene in the second photo was a greater test of driving skills and car prep than the 1st photo. Both were fun.

3. Cruising Orange County, taken by whoever was following me.:)

Friends, amen.

When I bought mine, it was about driving and it still is....

FWIW, all of us should be sure to introduce the next generation to the thrill.

Why Ed, I have no problems showing the 71 2.0 between rain showers. ;)

I am debating what to do with that 'extra' 2.4 S motor I have sitting in the garage....

I had to open my big mouth and start a discussion about how great it is to drive our little beasties. Jinxed the weather and we woke up this morning to a <b>foot</b> of snow on the ground here in Central Oregon. The powder hounds are having a blast, but the P-DAWGS are going to have to wait a few days.

Cheers,
John Audette

Think on the plus side John...there will be zero "drought" talk from our annoying mainstream press this year. Your foot of powder equals an inch of rain on this side of the hills. Folks, drive your cars if you want to, park 'em if you want to...That's YOUR decision. But count me among those who got really tired of "dawgs" bragging about how high up the lamp post they could pee. I'm a grumpy old 62 year old "dawg". I really don't need "pups" who still have their milk teeth telling me what to do or not do with my car. MY car, dig it? That's the one that was featured in EXCELLENCE almost 11 years ago...I didn't sell it right away, I've driven it 12,000 miles since then. Maybe Pete thinks I did one thing right??? (edit) But I don't think I'll be showing at many Porsche gatherings this season...too many things about the whole scene has put me in a funk about it. I've never tried to make a dime with this car thing, so now that the fun of it has diminished considerably for me, I'm going to take a step back and think about things. When the fun goes away, maybe it's time to find something else fun to do. It's just that I've been a "car guy" pretty much my whole life...what else is equally fun? Aye, that's the rub.

Paul,

One thing about a broad-base of fans for any activity/passion is that they come from many differing perspectives and have different goals. This BB combines the 'period correct' crowd, with the high performance street group, with the racing crowd, with those whom might want a representative number to insure their car, to those wanting to make a quick buck. There will always be youngsters full of testosterone trying to prove who is better, faster, has more money or more cars, and then there are the older folks who enjoy talking about great drives, recent fixes, some modest mods, etc, and all combinations of the above.

We have seen broad swings in BB topics and enthusiasm. Yes it is nice to see the cars values more in line with what we 'feel' they are worth, and yes the purpose of these cars is to enjoy and drive them, but the beauty of this BB is the passion (sorry about the overused word) that each of us has for early cars. At get togethers and meets, one can always find those interested in like aspects of the cars or just life in general. The young dogs can discuss horsepower, the old ones can talk about what's good for them, and everyone else can do their own thing.

You have been a valuable contributor with a lot of knowledge to share and some damn funny lines. It would be a shame to (edit - another mis-spelling) lose you.

Perhaps this is a long-winded way of saying, pick what you like from the board and drop the rest. I am sure that most of us do a certain amount of that already. Its kind of a 'live and let live' thing, just participate where you want and let others go off and do what they like. But if none of it has any interest any more, then it is our loss too.

Agreed totally. I bought mine to drive. Unless its raining I am driving one or the other almost every day. Thank goodness for SoCal weather.

However, it is nice to know that unlike most new cars that could approach the driving pleasure these cars do, they are at least holding their money.

Though driving IS the best part, the whole ownership experience makes these cars: the community, working on them, their look and feel, and the heritage.

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Originally Posted by pwd72s

MY car, dig it? That's the one that was featured in EXCELLENCE almost 11 years ago...I didn't sell it right away, I've driven it 12,000 miles since then. Maybe Pete thinks I did one thing right??? (edit)

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Your car is still one of my faves. Hmmmmmn. Irish Green (along with Slate Gray my favorite color), early S coupe, exceptional condition, good history, what's not to like? And the longer you keep it, the more I like it. But that doesn't mean I'll begrudge you in the slightest should you decide to move on.

That would be like someone insulting me or calling me stupid for selling a nice 911 and keeping my 914. It's not THEIR decision.

So I'm not telling anyone what to do with THEIR Porsches above. Some people really dig the show circuit, some love to brag about their latest exploits and puff up their chests, some love tinkering in the garage, some love the thrill of the (pur)chase, and some just love driving solo out there on an early morning.

PERSONALLY, I only really love two of the above. And I'm tiring of the big "weekends." Love the people and the cars, too, but I'd rather be out on a lonely road somewhere.

But there's a niche for all of us. And that's the way it should be....

Anyway, I suppose I should stop posting, as it seems that anything I say can/will be misinterpreted/read into/etc. I don't speak the forum language so well and I don't want to go on to offend anybody.

Thanks for your thoughts. As always, a lot to chew on and good constructive criticism.

pete

Pete, said very well. Its easy to see why you are a professional and I am still aspiring to be a hack.

As for staying silent for fear of being misquoted, used and abused, I thought was came 'with the territory' of your profession. ;)

I know if any of us brings up anything the least bit controversial around here, like the mere chance of the planet warming up, we getted jumped on mercilessly. Its part of the admission price - unless one wants to be a 'lerker', (like Seinfeld would say, not that I have a problem with that.)

LOL Pete...don't be a stranger here. Also note: I'm a solo driver as well. I cruise the Niagara River Parkway up here from Ft Erie, Ontario to Niagara On The Lake every chance I get. No wife (horses are her thing) no kid (too busy playing on the puter) no dog (danged 165 lb rottweiler...drooling stinkbag) and no friends (I seem to be the only one in my area into these bad boys), but I have a great time cruising my 71T RS wanabe. :D

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Originally Posted by pwd72s

Think on the plus side John...there will be zero "drought" talk from our annoying mainstream press this year. Your foot of powder equals an inch of rain on this side of the hills. Folks, drive your cars if you want to, park 'em if you want to...That's YOUR decision. But count me among those who got really tired of "dawgs" bragging about how high up the lamp post they could pee. I'm a grumpy old 62 year old "dawg". I really don't need "pups" who still have their milk teeth telling me what to do or not do with my car. MY car, dig it? That's the one that was featured in EXCELLENCE almost 11 years ago...I didn't sell it right away, I've driven it 12,000 miles since then. Maybe Pete thinks I did one thing right??? (edit) But I don't think I'll be showing at many Porsche gatherings this season...too many things about the whole scene has put me in a funk about it. I've never tried to make a dime with this car thing, so now that the fun of it has diminished considerably for me, I'm going to take a step back and think about things. When the fun goes away, maybe it's time to find something else fun to do. It's just that I've been a "car guy" pretty much my whole life...what else is equally fun? Aye, that's the rub.

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Only 62?:confused:
Been to a vintage race?
62 is the young half of the field.:D

Pete, I want to make it clear to all here I was only referring to your immediate selling comment. Gburner, Vintage racing? Bless all those guys...it's just great to be able to see, and more importantly, hear those cars on the track again. I missed last year at PIR, but I might make it this year...we'll see.

Hey John, I drove my car this weekend, windows down, rear windows popped open, went through a few tunnels and by a few high canyon walls grinning from ear to ear listening to the sound of my 2.4S screaming through the sport exhaust reverberating off the walls , what a sound - nothing like it!!! She's a driver, not a show girl and she's proud of it.

oh yeah....

INDEED ! Brakes don't fail me now !

Great Shot!

It's sunny and 60 degrees in Redmond...guess what I drove today? Gotta go.

Just back from a 4 day easter break down south (300km each way) in the 930 (the RS rep is in bits).

who said these cars aren't practical, we fitted:

1 me;
2 the girlfriend;
3 clothes/bedding etc;
4 food/booze; and
5 Miles the dog (boxer) who slept on the folded down rear seats the whole way...

ps. Milesy loves the boost...

Anyway, I suppose I should stop posting, as it seems that anything I say can/will be misinterpreted/read into/etc. I don't speak the forum language so well and I don't want to go on to offend anybody.

Sheesh, don't do that. I'm not the only one to enjoy reading your very balanced perspective on the Porsche world!

Gee Pete, don't go. We don't care who you offend. But please be careful not to indulge that Paul guy too much - you realize that car of his has gone over 50,000 miles.

John

Last May going up to Monterey for the R-Gruppe meet....

It's the driving .......... ;)

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Originally Posted by John Fusco

Gee Pete, don't go. We don't care who you offend. But please be careful not to indulge that Paul guy too much - you realize that car of his has gone over 50,000 miles.

John

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Yep! And as an "expert" who once posted here said, the value goes South once past 50K on the odo. :eek: So, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. My suggestion? To each his own. Please DO stick around Pete. My current funk has nothing to do with you. Under your leadership, EXCELLENCE continues to live up to it's name.

Paul, I enjoy your open comments and views, its refreshing to see someone who has been around as long as yourself, still being involved, with enough enthusiasm to still post and share your thoughts.

Pete please don't stop posting, its always good to have a person in your position to share comments and thoughts with, or even just read your posts!

Chuck thanks for the great pics! Now that is really the enviroment these cars were meant for, country roads with varying conditions!

As so many have said this is really, what our cars are all about, driving them in all conditions and as often as possible.

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Originally Posted by Ed@Excellence

Anyway, I suppose I should stop posting, as it seems that anything I say can/will be misinterpreted/read into/etc. I don't speak the forum language so well and I don't want to go on to offend anybody.

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I second the motion. Don't stop posting. The written word can sometimes be dramatically misinterpreted. Don't worry about it and continue to add to the discussion. We're glad you're on board.

Wide open at 9000 feet !

I took this shot last October up in the mountains near my house.
Hope to get some more "candid" shots on the trip to Sonoma :)

Well after reading this entire thread y'day and doing so again now, I think I'll finally weigh in here. First and foremost, this thread is a dramatic departure from the typical boring crap I have been reading here over the last year or more....a gutsey move by the author in this era of fat wallets, continious parking lot car admiration and some ego thrown in too.

I think it desreves to be mentioned that driving one's 911 in today's world is a different game than it was 30+ yrs ago...with todays high traffic volumes and todays inattentive drivers on cell phones in this same traffic, many who display a very typical "Hey! -it 's my road. You gotta problem with it?" attitude. Is very different than what it was when these cars were new and one could start that flat six up and go out for a spirited run on your favorite road with barely any worry about other drivers - compared with driving today.

Here in So Cal today, to go out and enjoy your 911 on any sweeping open roads or winding mountian twisties with the multitudes of ninja bikes and other car clubs out wanting to enjoy those same stretches of pavement I think demands a more pro-active, better driver.

Sure you can go out solo and just cruze those same nice roads I refered to above, but what about when there is a several of the same group? I have been out there many times and not once have I not experienced myself or seen someone else experiencing "the red mist" of adrenaline whilst behind the wheel. It's a natural thing.

So just how do you know when, while with some buddies on a nice winding mountian road, you're a little pumped and things are going great- just how do YOU determine when you are driving beyond your limits? ...and then you begin thinking...hmmmm what are my limits? ....and for that matter what are my 911's limits?

Do you know? If you think so, just how do you know? Scary thing to think about and really be honest with yourself.

Earlier Randy W. mentioned driving at 7/10's....that's a pretty hard point to determine if you've never been at 9 or 10/10's.

Taking these awesome early 911's out for a good drive is really what it's all about...and then at a rest stop we get to get out and meet a few new faces and also see all our same buddies that we've grown fond of over many a mile of 911 bliss.

Here's a true story: Almost 4 years ago..after several years ripping it up here in So. Cal. as well as once a year on the centeral coast in the early morning hours with all the usual suspects... I was convinced to go to the local Autocross and give it a whirl... Well I showed up convinced I was the bad dude who had tons of canyon carving experience in my hotrod early 911 and I would be able to hold my own on this silly parking lot with orange cones strewn about.

I was wrong...embarrasingly wrong. I got my tail-end handed to me that day in the biggest way. I had no way of understanding beforehand just how crappy of a driver I was.....and how out of balance my 911 was...sheeesh:o

Only then did I began to realize just how much I didn't know about driving my 911 anywhere near it's potential, and what the ramifications would be if a surprise situation suddenly popped up in front of my windshield whilst out canyon carving with my buddies.

That was a life changing experience for me in my 911 ownership experience...hopefully my sharing will provoke some thought before any "red mist" overcomes anyone else:)

cheers!

Good point . I have a week to go before my first car control clinic (PCA) and couldn't sleep thinking of how much fun it will be to start learning all there is to learn about my nervous little SWB in a situation where I can understand what is happening.

By the way, you realize the same people posting here are the ones posting all that boring crap (well some of us are anyhow). We are a complex bunch.

John

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Originally Posted by John Fusco

By the way, you realize the same people posting here are the ones posting all that boring crap (well some of us are anyhow). We are a complex bunch.

John

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A point well made...:)

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Originally Posted by RSupdate

Earlier Randy W. mentioned driving at 7/10's....that's a pretty hard point to determine if you've never been at 9 or 10/10's.
cheers!

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Just having fun with the investment analogy.
Sheezz driving at 7/10 is ripping on the street, so at 9/10 on the track I can improve my 911 return by 20% (2/10)?:D
Nice write up JR, way to tone it down. ;)

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Originally Posted by Type911

Wide open at 9000 feet !
:)

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On the street that is certainly 7/10.
No doubt wheezing in the thin air.:)
I suggest a sea level condition for a faster return.;)

I can guarantee you a 5% return improvement and under ideal conditions 20% increase on your 911 investment.
At the track do the same but with the wheel turned 10 or 20 degrees, big sweeper.:eek: :D
You still got more 911 in there.:)
That should get you up to 9/10.

The last 1/10 return can put your investment more at risk, to get the last 10% place another 911 driver at 9/10 within 20 feet of your car.:eek:
You’ll know when your investment has peaked when the lap times are low and consistent.:)

Back in high school I was one of a group of four guys with a hot-rod vintage sports car. Every single one of them ended up selling their car and getting into something newer and faster after high school; I, on the other hand, held fast to my little 914-6 barnstormer.

I finally sold the car - to fund my 911 project- but to this day those same guys remember the rides in my hot-rod little vintage Porsche far more than they remember the rides in their mustangs and camaros, and with far more fondness of recollection.

It just goes to show you the lasting power of these cars and just how much a lead-footed freeway romp in the middle of the night can affect a person ... especially impressionable 16-year old youth with an affinity for vintage cars.

Johnny & GBurner 59~

Good points & observations.

Be safe out there...

It doesn't have to be about 'hanging the needles' (although I have to admit it's a blast when I do :D )...I haven't owned an early 911 for some years now, so it's either the 356 outlaw or 77 911S for me but I get great enjoyment from either in a variety of ways :) .

I hate driving the 356 in traffic - all that watching my ass (well the car's) to make sure it doesn't get hit is a pain in the same spot :mad: . People tend to drive really close to it to try to work out what it is and I don't trust their reflexes! But once out of town, I am just as happy to enjoy some great roads at a pace that allows me to take it all in - the scenery, the sounds and smell of the car (not oil leaky smells, just the great scent of the car!), its responsiveness when I do give the pedal a squeeze....and it's all the better when the kids are with me enjoying the same. Ditto the 77 S. I love its flexibility and will quite happily sit at or near the speed limit cruising in 5th, good music playing, sunroof open even in chilly weather. It's all about the "feel" of these cars. They have personality and attitude - yes definitely attitude for if you don't treat them with the respect they demand and deserve whilst driving, guaranteed they will bite! For me, this is a great part of the appeal. Whilst I know I can relax behind the wheel, I can never be "slack" or these cars will punish me for it. I can't just sit there and wait for it all to happen - I have to deliver too. Like the great man said, these cars are "driving in its purest form" :) .

Cheers,
Lisa

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Originally Posted by lisa_spyder

It doesn't have to be about 'hanging the needles' (although I have to admit it's a blast when I do :D )..:) .
....and it's all the better when the kids are with me enjoying the same.Cheers,
Lisa

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I concede you can go 11/10 (that is 110% return on your investment) when you inspire the kids.
I have a buddy with a 74 911 (Mark Tyler) he's a time trailer and street guy that likes to make an impression on the little ones. So he's got a couple young kids, at the kid’s school when it's show and tell day (or B day parties too) he'll show up with his 74 911 with race #s wearing his driving suit and helmet rev the car with straight pipes and give the kids thrill. A couple of these are the same little ones that will tell stories for ever about how they got turned on to cool cars.
Excellent perspective, thank you.

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Originally Posted by John Fusco

....By the way, you realize the same people posting here are the ones posting all that boring crap

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Exactly why I said what I did......

I also said what I did with the hope there will be fewer citations issued than there were last year on the first weekend in May along Hwy 101 here in Cali.

edit:spelling

Even when you know what 7/10ths is, remember we are still human and every one of us can make a mistake, especially on the street which is always an uncontrollable enviornment. Be safe out there. Thanks, guys for putting this in perspective.

Slow in, Fast out...

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Originally Posted by a911s

Slow in, Fast out...

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This one begs for in like a lamb out like a lion.:eek: :D

hmmm...approach at about 20mph....track out to the left for a late apex...be cautious going around the blind turn itself...track out again on exit seeing what is ahead..all clear?......go!!!:D

Having fun is the result of being safe. Surfing, hang gliding or P-car driving.. it's all good!!

Books on tape, for the Los Angeles to Reno-Fernley drive. :cool:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1114501661.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1114501161.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1114502748.jpg

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Originally Posted by RSupdate

Exactly why I said what I did......



edit:spelling

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Maybe we should send our posts to you for approval Johnny ?

John

Jack,

Stunning photos (as usual)...books on tape for me gave way to nursery rhymes and "the Wiggles" etc for a while :D . Thankfully we're past those - nowadays depending on which kid/s are riding with me/us we range from Dixie Chicks to Deep Purple or The Stones to a couple of hard rocker Aussie bands like AC/DC and Jet (we have brainwashed the kids to listen to stuff we like or can at least stomach ;) )...I'll have to wait until they're driving themselves around to listen to talking books again I'm afraid :( . One of the "joys" of parenthood :p ! But never, never in the Outlaw...I have a rule - 2.0L S engine sounds only!!!

Cheers,
Lisa

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Originally Posted by Mr9146

Driving the cars is only half the fun.

The other half is building 'em. :cool:

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Exactly. About this time next year I'll be ready to jump into a freshly built '72 hot rod and head out to California...and I'll be driving it back too.

Wow Jack....nice pix....stunnning backdrop. Your roof mounted tire rack is interesting!!

Good Luck on the Reno-Fernley adventure!!:)

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Originally Posted by RSupdate

Wow Jack....nice pix....stunnning backdrop. Your roof mounted tire rack is interesting!!

Good Luck on the Reno-Fernley adventure!!:)

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Does this mean BB2 is back on the road?

That is an older pic of BB2 from last year...I think.

Hopefully the "new BB2" will make an appearance in Sonoma...

BB2 is back, but that's from last year's drive to Reno. I may be back there at the end of May -- they've expanded the track to 4+ miles, now. :)

Just stumbled across this thread and decided to give it a well deserved "bump". Here is to enjoying these cars more than worrying about what they are worth.

Heading to Stuttgart, Toyo R888, no heating system, icce inside.

1500 kms in less than 2 days.

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Xavier, those conditions with that setup takes real dedication. Respect.

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Originally Posted by tomlin

Xavier, those conditions with that setup takes real dedication. Respect.

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From a swedish gentleman, this is a real compliment, thanks. Tak.