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How about a one stop thread on the T/R with facts, details and pics? I would like to know more about Alan Hamilton's car. I have read that 35 were made that included 4 RHD? I know of the Gulf Blue/Orange, Gulf Blue in the for sale section of Octane, RennType's Orange and Hamilton's Yellow. Please post pics and info...repeat pictures welcomed! ;)
This is the Hamilton car (http://www.bowdensown.com.au/cars/911tr.html):
That is S Registry member Philip Basil's (Renntyp on this board) car.
Here are a few more:
This is #0834:
http://home.clara.net/andyjboy/0834nsf.jpg
http://home.clara.net/andyjboy/seats.jpg
http://home.clara.net/andyjboy/0834osr.jpg
& here's another (haven't got the VIN to hand):
http://home.clara.net/andyjboy/osf.jpg
http://home.clara.net/andyjboy/TRrear.jpg
http://home.clara.net/andyjboy/TRengine.jpg
Nice pics !!! Could someone please verify for me if the blue car #123 posted by Andy is a Crystal Blue color, if so, would you happen to know the color code for it.
TIA :)
Since we are getting facts, I've got a couple of questions.
What are the specs on the flares on these cars front and rear. Are they the same as an RS.
What size wheels F&R?
Hi Andy,
On #0834 is the black rectangular on the frt spoiler a masked up license plate or is there something for a cooler for instance as can be seen on the attached picture?
Richard
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Article 24
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Author Autofarm
Web Users Website
Brief Autofarm offer an ultra rare Porsche 911 T Rallye
Toolbox Affiliates
Vacant None listed for this project, if you want to appear here, contact us.
Ultra rare Porsche 911T Rallye for sale at Autofarm
Ultra rare and orgininal Porsche 911 T Rallye, one of the original Factory ‘Homologation Special’ 911 T Rallye’s (see on for an explanation of where this model sits in Porsche history), with a competition history spanning the Targa Florio, Nurburgring 1000kms, Mugello, Le Mans and a host of other ‘In Period’ International events (see details below)
Porsche 911
Model T Rallye
Year Ordered 11/67, 1968 model
Engine Size 1991cc
Chassis No. 11820884
Engine No. Un-numbered crankcase, Type 901/10
Original ccase, no. 4081283, Type 901/02 as spare
Colour Silver
Interior M471 Lightweight
Price PoA
Just restored to its original Silver livery, engine just fully rebuilt by ourselves. Originally supplied with Nurburgring circuit ratios, LSD, 100 litre fuel tank etc,.
Ordered from the Factory in 1967 by Paddy McNally - its a motor racing Whos Who that have owned and driven this car …..see on for details.
We are aware of only three RHD 911 T Rallye’s, and we’re only aware of four having been supplied in 1968 (two remain in the UK which we maintain and one in Australia) FIVA papers. Will also be supplied with the current FIA HTP (Historic Technical Passport) papers. Fully road legal, it comes with an MOT, 6 point Works roll cage, and numerous spares (see further down).
Includes a Huge boxed history file including a in-period articles/results from Autosport, Motoring News etc,.
This car was collected from Stuttgart by Chris Maltin (who later became Porsche main dealer Maltin Car Concessionaires of Henley), who set about preparing it for McNally for the 68/9 winter Springbok Series. This mainly consisted of buying many special parts from Porsche and re-building the engine to essentially 911R specification.
The Original Magnesium crankcase comes with the car. The Engine freshly re-built by ourselves December 2004 (see on for Spec.)and is now run in.
Extensively restored and developed during the 1980s (c£80k) by Brian Powley. Many mechanics were updated in the 1980s/90s and original parts are available as spares including original Minilites, the original gearbox, 911R (906) spec cams etc etc,. Full list of parts available on request. Some or all of these may be excluded from the sale if required.
Registered by Nigel Hulme with the HSCC in 1979 in Historic Special GT. Eligible for and ready to compete immediately in all current International Historic tours, rallies and races in FIA Appendix K Period G. Or an outstanding and unique road and trackday car. An undeniable part of Porsches racing history…..an excellent example of this the first of the Factory Homologation Specials, with a remarkable and unique history
911 T Rallye - a brief background
This model was the first true customer Homologation Special that Porsche offered (homologated in Group 3), being a 911T (because at 925kg it was lighter than all other models) yet fitted with 911S mechanics and offered with various Sport options such as competition Recaro seats, close ratios, LSD, long-range fuel tank (100 litres) and a Rallye kit on the engine (15 bhp upgrade achieved through larger carburettor venturis, open inlet trumpets and twin outlet exhaust) etc,. Therefore, the model could be viewed as a 911S Lightweight
T Rallyes are hence the forerunners of such sought after models as the 2.7 RS Lightweight and the first of what was to become a long line of Factory Limited Edition lightweight Homologation Specials, culminating in the GT2 and GT3 of today. Hence the T Rallye holds a unique place in 911 history.
Mechanical/Technical Details
1991cc engine - built on correct spec Magnesium crankcase. To original T Rallye specification plus fitted with 911R 45/39mm valve sizes, heads ported to 36/36mm, 911R spec pistons, 911R Marelli dual ignition, 911R pressure side oil filter.
Transmission - comes with both the original 901 and 915 close-ratio LSD gearboxes. Currently fitted with standard ratio unit.
Fully vented brake discs, with front/rear dual master cylinder brake bias system.
T Rallye specification interior and trim with full Works roll cage and fire eater plumbed-in extinguisher system, pair period Recaro bucket seats
Long range fuel tank, anti-surge fuel pot, dual pumps.
Dry sump oil system with 2 coolers under the front wings (13 litres capacity), front mounted oil tank.
Purpose built wiring loom for current Historic competition use Cibie Biode 100 watt lights
External fuel and oil filters
History Highlights
Owners
Paddy McNally + Charlie Lucas (South African registered)
Paul Vestey
David Weir
Sir Anthony Bamford (UK Registered in 1971 as YBF 847J)
John Chatham
Rod Leach (Nostalgia Cars)
Ray Potter
Brian Powley (Re-registered as 2 BRX in 1987)
Cmdr Eoin Sloan
Drivers
Paddy McNally
Charlie Lucas
Digby Martland
Paul Vestey
Roy Pike
Peter Sadler
Alain de Cadenet
Chris Craft
David Weir
Mike Ogier
Sir Anthony Bamford
John Chatham
Willy Tuckett
Mike Coombe
Rod Leach (Nostalgia Cars)
Ray Potter
J Henderson
Nigel Hulme
Brian Powley
Cmdr Eoin Sloan
* Article content is the views/opinions and responsibility of the article author, and is published by the author as per site terms and conditions. Contact site admin first if you dispute any content.
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Richard - the black rectangles are the 'masked' license plates...
Too 'bad'. I can not get the abouts of the bumper I took a picture off a while ago at a junkyard.
Well may be I answered my own query and is it Junk .. :confused:
Richard
Here are a couple of shots (seen on here before) of the silver car on the Autofarm website in its earlier colour scheme when owned by Eoin Sloan :
http://home.clara.net/andyjboy/2BRX.jpg
http://home.clara.net/andyjboy/2BRXfr.jpg
Here's some useful information from the qv500 website on what constituted a 'T Rallye' :
http://www.qv500.com/porsche91120p6.php
Very cool to see SWB cars with big flares because so few people do it. I forgot about the silver with red stripe car.
I had the pleasure of being a passenger in 2BRX when Brian Powley owned it and it was kept in running order at Gantspeed in Lincs, UK - lets say it was quite impressive to say the least.:D :D
Couple of those cars appear to have the early ST fender flares and couple appear to have RS flares.
Phil
Here is one that I found in my library:
I forgot the details on this car - anyone know?
We need more pics of this car:
Bob, Curt E. took that photo 3 or 4 years ago at Watkins Glen. I kept going back to look at the car all weekend hoping to talk to the owner, but nobody ever showed up and the car didn't move. It really is a neat car, and I would like to know it's history too.Quote:
Originally Posted by bob tilton
Bob,
Stephen Childs' Gulf T/R is one of the very best cars I've ever had the privilege to drive...
The set-up is perfect, and it goes like hell ... all day long ... ;)
Cheers,
A couple of pics of Steve's car back in the day... ;)
Chuck - very cool pics. Do you have interior shots from back in the day? Interested in rear shelf, door panels, rear wheel area details.
Also, just found this link of a T/R:
http://www.porsche.fi/english/motors...ases/2322.html
Any more details out there?
No, I'm afraid not Bob...
You might try the period European rally magazines... not easy to find, but what worthwhile is... :)
Cheers,
Thanks Chuck!
The 68 TR you speak of is one of my favourite cars... not just because (like you Bob) I have slightly modded 68L. My friends and I jokingly refer to my car as the L/R!;)
The Hamilton car was a very significant and successful car in its day... the history of the car during its time in Australia is on the fouronfloor website... so I won't repeat what's already been typed.
My late father was one of the founder members of the Porsche Club in Sydney and while they lived in different states both he and Alan Hamilton knew one another. I'll attempt to scan some slides we have of the Hamilton TR taken at Warwick Farm in 1970 along with a number of other racing 911's 2.2/2.3ST buildups.
The TR was one of Alan Hamilton's favourite cars ... he said as much to my Dad and I during a visit to Sydney when he addressed the PCNSW. He very kindly autographed some pictures of the car for Dad. He explained what became of the car and reminisced about how much he liked and the reasons for him liking it so much
After its competition life ended it was sold (around 1971) to an American engineer who worked for Ingersoll Rand. He took it home with him after his assignment in Australia ended. It was for sale for some time (on and off for a year or more) on the East Coast of the US in the early 90's. Realising its significance to Australia the current owner purchased it from there.
I'll post some of the pics from home
Justin
Justin - that would be great if you could post pics of the Hamilton car. Let me know if you need any help scanning the transparencies. You can send them to me and I can drumscan them. In return I would output some very nice hi-res photo quality large prints for you.
Peter - some good stuff!
Bob,
Try this out...
From a vintage Australian Motorsport photo site that Mike Jacobson at Spyder turned me on to a while ago...
This of Alan Hamilton in '69
http://www.oldracephotos.com/tick.asp?asearch=true
Cheers,
Very cool pic Chuck! Too bad we didn't get the chance to talk longer in Ventura. Interesting to see what looks to be R rear flares. Are there more pics - I went through each category in the link and didn't find any.
Just 2 more Bob ...
Photo #1461 on the same page and #1446 on the next page
Cheers,
As promised...
Bob... I may very well take you up on your kind offer.
This has to be one of my favourite early 911's... the grand-daddy of SWB's in Australia anyway!
I was doing some T/R research and came up with these threads, so I thought this was a good place to post them:
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ead.php?t=3838
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ead.php?t=9929
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ad.php?t=10852
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ad.php?t=12591
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ad.php?t=13303
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ad.php?t=20021
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ad.php?t=20130
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ad.php?t=21915
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ad.php?t=25214
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ad.php?t=27027
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ad.php?t=27926
Question, should a real T/R have a 901/30 engine or am
I confused again?
andy
Some nice pictures to be had here...
http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car...tml?no_cache=1
Jeff:
Great "carpet in lieu of headliner" pics.
Do you happen to have pics of the carpet headliner in the rear along the trailing edge of the windows?
Thanks,
Tom
Are the rear seat backs pressed or formed of a thickish card board?
How would you descibe the covering?
I have one sans covering - all hollow on the back.
I would guess the rear seats are covered in a velour type material. I took most of the shots by holding the camera through an open window and didn't see the seats folded down or get into the car.
Great photos Jeff!
Can anyone provide any detail on the apparent change in the rear flares on the Hamilton T/R from the more "rounded" ones in the first period picture (see below), and which seem to be like the ones on my "Out Of Africa" car, to what look more like distinct "angular flares" in another period picture (sorry don't know when or where) and the recent photos posted by Jeff?
I am pretty sure it is not just an issue of viewing from a different angle?
Tim
Tim
here are some pictures from 1968 to 1970
in order
A. Hamilton Porsche 911 - Warwick Farm 1968
A. Hamilton Porsche - Oran Park 1969
A. Hamilton - Porsche - Warwick Farm 1970
Alan Hamilton # 9 rear flare surfers paradice 1970
Hugh - Thanks for that
To me then it looks like the arches/flares were widened for 1970 or is it my eyes?
Do you think it would have been running deep 6" on the rear first, going to 7r in 1970 OR might they be 7r in '68/'69 and something wider in 1970?
Having said that, this is going to run this into the ST debate over wheel size/date of availability which I suppose is all part of the development story.
From a personal point of view what I am really trying to arrive at is the likely wheel set up front and rear to go with the arches as they are now (which appear to be just like the Hamilton car in 1970) and an area where I would definitely appreciate some guidance as to what would have been available/likely around this date!
Tim
Has Druck printed on it, so assume it is a pressure guage. Now since there is an oil pressure guage in the main instruments, could it be a fuel pressure guage?Quote:
Originally Posted by varunan123
Engine is supposedly specced as a 901/22, but is it actually built on the original 901/02 case?
Jeff,
Thanks so much for your new documentation of this very historic car... :)
Cheers
Great photos, thanks for sharing!
Hugh,
Some flairs on an American car. Bruce Jennings 2.3 GT car. I think 1970 Daytona/Sebring
H
Raj
The wheels are 7X15s centerline style and the rear tires are huge 600 X 15s. I'll find out more about the car soon.
H
Hi all. I just bought a '68 T/R from David Mohlman and thought I would post a few photos. There are already a few photos of it at the start of this thread and on the following thread:
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...d=1#post218322
It's great to see such a bunch of enthusiasts. I wish I'd found the site earlier!
Cheers, Mike
A few more photos of it racing...
Finally, a photo of it before it was shipped to me. :)
Hello again Mike
Glad you have posted! There are a few swiss members here who I'm sure would love to see your car in person...:)
Hey Cam, thanks for sending me to the site! Will see if I can track down some of those Swiss members for a meet up.
Cheers, Mike
:eek::):eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by mikehump
This is one of my favorite cars! Please post more photos when you get it.:D
It is tucked up in my garage at the moment :)
I'll take some more photos over the weekend and post them. In the meantime, here's another one from the archives.
Cheers, Mike
Mike,
Can you tell us a little more about that extrememly interesting front bumper.
Was it a Werks dvelopment part, because it looks very similar to one of the permutations the factory used on the RS prototypes when those were being finalized & tested.
Did it stay with the car as a spare part when you recently purchased it, per chance.
JZG
John,
I'm afraid that I cannot tell you much at all. It seems to have been fitted near the end of the car's competitive life in 1972 & 1973 judging by the photos I have. When the car was acquired in the late '90s it had been stored in a barn for many years and needed restoration. I am not sure whether it was removed at this point or whether it had already been taken off. Will try to find some photos of the car pre restoration to check.
These are the only other photos I have of the car with it fitted.
Cheers, Mike
There's an article in the UK magazine Classic Cars this month regarding a 911 T sports purpose, VIN number 11820835. The car is Ivory with Fuchs wheels. It was owned by a Barry Williams in California although he has apparently just passed away. He had the car for 25 years restoring it. Does anybody know anything about this car?
Cheers, Mike
Sadly, Barry passed away in July. Here are a couple of pictures of his amazing T that I took a few years ago.
It is a lovely looking car with a very interesting history judging from the magazine article. It's a shame he is no longer here to tell us more about it.
Thanks for sharing the photos.
Mike
Here are some pics of a 911S I almost bought - twice - in Zurich. It was delivered with a Sports pack to an Italian rallye driver. Marinello sold it to the States the night before I wanted to buy it...
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/451/car15.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6070/car11.jpg
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/4073/s1000047.jpg
foto e film
www.amicidellatargaflorio.com
Beautiful weather today in Geneva, and an even more beautiful T/R, just prepared for the Tour Auto.
Thank you Mike for the ride: One of the best 911 I've driven, a true race car, firm, efficient, and clearly very fast:
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/3950/p1000531n.jpg
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/3592/p1000532.jpg
What size wheels are on the T/R? Are those 9x15 minilites?
OMG! Those two cars together is beyond spectacular.
Thanks for posting Thomas.
Karl, after our conversation yesterday about 9" Minilites I found this picture of the Hart Ski T/R when it was in the States. What a coincidence that Milou drove the same car in Switzerland today! Given the flares I assume that these are 9", maybe Thomas can confirm?
I have posted these photos of Mike's T/R (11820639) as it looked in '07 on another thread, but since this is the "ultimate thread" I'll put them on here for reference.
............
..........
Mike will correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood his tires were 8 inches wide at the back and mine are 9 in.
His car is also slightly lower in front and the steering wheel felt very sharp (because of this?).
The direction on mine is much softer and doesn't feel as strongly glued to the road.
Milou,
I believe you are correct. The 9s that I have seen have a return on the lip, like the 5s, 5 1/2s and 7s that I have in the shop now. The 10s that I have don't. Haven't seen enough vintage 8s to confirm their lips.
Do your 9s have a return on the lip?
H
The 8's I've had all had the 'return' edge :
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4050/...3351213f_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4059/...5ecee77749.jpg
Andy, Those look like the 9s that we see. I wonder if the vintage 8s were different? His wheels don't look like the vintage 10s, they have the center milled way down...
H
It certainly was a great way to spend a Sunday morning. Thomas' car looks even more beautiful in the metal - especially when following it down a windy alpine road :) Driving it was a joy, incredibly smooth and communicative.
My rear wheels are indeed 8 inches and I am running Michelin TB 18 60 15 on them. Will be replacing them with 7Rs soon as I am taking it back to the original narrow body at the rear...
Will take lots of photos of the other Porsches on the Tour Auto and will post them when I get back.
Cheers, Mike
Harvey - I have probably had 4 or 5 pairs of magnesium 8's & 2 or 3 pairs of magnesium 9's over the past 10 years & they have all had the 'return' edge.
The Porsche-fitment magnesium 8's & 9's looked identical from the outside - the pictures I posted of the 8's are from a limited run of aluminium wheels that were specially machined by Minilite (from their 'raw' castings) to replicate the original 'vintage' Magnesium 8 x 15's - they are quite different in appearance to the currently-available wheels (which have flat rim edges without any return).
The rear wheels on Mike's T/R look like the later aluminium 8x15's.
This sounds right to me - don't think they are light enough to be magnesium...
Mike ,Milou,really nice cars!
Maybe i'll be in Paris for Tour Auto...;)
Thanks for the nice comments on the cars. If you are in Paris, do stop by and say hello.
M
Andy, thanks-that explains allot. I thought they didn't look like the vintage mags that I"ve seen. I've done many 10s and they were all the same flat lip/machine center. Everything else had the return/cut in spoke-like you pointed out. never worked on a modern minilite, so your experience really helps.
H
Here is a photo of one of my 7X15 "Mag" minilites. The ones I have are late
60s or early 70s. They have been packed away for years. They also have that 'return' edge.
John
Here are the ones I have on the ST. Magnesium and original from the period, and with a lip:
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3791/img2085y.jpg
bump...please update! :)
This appears to be the same factory light weight rear seat back as seen in the Hamilton car.
It is laid up from GRP with black gel coat. The outside is sprayed in black flock similar to inside glove box texture, unlike the cloth covering seen on the Hamilton examples.
Tim thinks this may be a factory Group 3 bit for saloon car racing.
This looks like something that Bob could repro for the ltwt '68 crowd!
I have some details on the 911T (1968) rear seat backs which were offered in the 1968 Sports Purposes outline, under Kit No. 9553, this kit was for 911T for use in Group 3. The description of the back is listed as "simplified rear seat rests" no part number given. I assume the backs were part of the Kit only. The front side is black flocking, the frame inside is aluminum with steel rivets, and the inside or back i'm not sure, as the example i have, has a carpet meteral that was added later on. under this carpet the paper is black in color. Maybe original had no covering at all, like photo in above post. the seat back is made of paper, like paper mache. Yes same as glove box, door pockets ? The back is 597g. in weight, with no carpet/perlon. You can see several layers of paper in the edge photo.
This car for sale currently at elevenparts in Switzerland http://www.elevenparts.com/index2.php?f=cars has made me think about where you draw the line with early sports purpose cars that were not "official models" but rather cars that met homologation standards but could have been made that way by the factory or converted privately by a factory supplied kit of parts. The T/R and S/T fit squarely into this category and have generated lots of posts on this board.
This particular car is not described as a T/R, and the engine number is not provided, although one photo shows a stamping of "901/22" on the engine suggesting that it is the sort of engine that may have been in a T/R.
However the description "1968, Porsche 911 T Gr. 3 (4) " and the detailed description of it starting as a 1968 T but in 1969 taken back to the factory race department and converted into a full race spec Gp 3 car, and then successfully competing in that guise and category at the Targa Florio in 1969 and other places and then being upgraded to Gp4 standards later (but not by the factory). I think that I would categorize it as a T/R given the looseness of that classification and the clear intent of the car to be covered by the homologation to that level. However the chassis number, 118 2 5233, is interesting as it is the only Karmann built car (designated by the 5 as the fifth number) on my (very incomplete) list of T/R's and potential T/R's.I would be interested in others views on this, and even if it should be considered as a "factory constructed T/R".
Even if it was not born as a t/r from new, I would say that this car is as good as they get, and with a very important racing history!
10th OA and class winner at Targa Florio makes it very special IMO, and the later gr.4 history is interesting as well.
Great car.
Andrea
Hi!
Can anyone help on Getting an exact description of the "Interior M471 Lightweight"?
Thanks in advance!
Hello,
I am new on this forum and I am looking for informations about the TR oil cooling system.
I can see two configurations for the 911 TR oil cooling system / oil lines and :
Page 6 : Hamilton TR is fitted with 911R oil filter housing, hard oil lines are insides the rocker panels. The 911 T/R "Out of Africa" is in the same configuration (Correction : no front oil cooler for T\R "Out of Africa")
page 9 : 911 TR "Hart Ski" is fitted with 911 S 69 - 71 console + thermostat, hard oil lines are outside the rocker panel.
What was the oil cooling system configuration of the 25 "Factory" TR ?
What was the outer diameter of the hard brass side oil lines : OD = 18mm or OD = 22mm ?
1 or 2 front oil coolers like the 911R with M26x1,5 connectors ?
Thank you for your help
The answer to your question is that the "factory" cars had any one of three alternatives depending on their intended use. Some left with a standard road set up, some with a single cooler in the RHS front wing and some with the double cooler 911R set up. These cars were not built to a standard factory spec but rather to the customer's instruction. I doubt there are two the same. The factory document "Information Regarding Porsche Vehicles Used For Sports Purposes" gives you a full explanation of the options that were available at the time. It even provides advice to customers as to which options were eligible for different FIA homologation categories (Group 2, 3, 5 etc). I'm sure the document has been posted on here before. Someone might be able to point you to it via a link.
I was at the gas station ('servo'/'garage'/fuel stop) this week in my 911 and a young guy pulled up to admire, and mentions he has a a T/R '68.
I am sure that car has been on this thread some where. The car is about 10 kms from here. http://passion.porsche.com/au/articl...on-1968-911-tr
Attachment 275740
Attachment 275782
This is a page out of Sports Purposes, 1968, W 351 Re: oil cooling...that Renn Typ cited in post 106.
My car only has the engine mounted oil cooler (no front cooler like the Hamilton car) because it has a single plug engine and the car was specified for sprint rather than endurance circuit racing; as Philip said they could be specified differently depending upon their intended use.
Thank you Ernie W, Bantam, Mev and Renntyp for this informations.
I only have pages 1 to 12 and now 14 about "Sports Purposes 68" where informations are about engines, group 2 and 3.
I will try to find the complete document Sports Purposes".
Hard oil brass lines diameter, nuts threads, ruber oil lines ... should be the same as 911 S 69 - 71 ?
Hard brass oil lines are 18x1 mm, the most hoses used the argus fittings and oil lines from 356 Carrera 2..... not the 69+ equipment...
Thank you for these great informations.
What were the different configurations of 911 T/R rear brake calipers distinguishing Factory and Private T/R ?
All Factory T/R were fitted with S rear brake calipers (pistons = 38mm OD, 10mm spacers, vented rotor) ?
Private T/R can have the "vented rotors option". This option was :
- 911 T rear brake calipers, 35mm pistons, with 10mm spacers for vented rotors ?
or
- 911 S rear brake calipers : 38mm pistons, 10 mm spacers, vented rotors ?
Thanks
Time for a bümpdate . . .
Must buy that ! ( Magazine not car ).
All's quiet on the T/R front!! Any one have information on T/R cars race history in the US as well I'm curious of events entered after the 68/69 seasons?
911R 2BRX pictured at the Lodge Oulton Park in the UK 1987. Originally metallic sliver the Targa Florio orange stripe added later.
Attachment 502056
I don't know much about these R models -- there are people who follow them closely -- but a few snippets..
Originally ordered through Isleworth dealer AFN/ retail arm but essentially same as importer Porsche Cars Great Britain by Paddy McNally to be campaigned by himself and Charles Lucas in South Africa during 68-69. Sold to folks in Port Elizabeth. Then sold to Anthony Bamford of JCB who brought it to UK in 70/71 explains why registered it as YBF947J. In 1987 owned by Mr Powley. Autofarm did work on it in.
Competed in Targa Florio winning its class , practiced but did not compete Le Mans 71, Willhire Historic 24 etc
These snippets are as stated by Mr Powley; at the time he was based in Abu Dhabi.
Steve
Does anyone know the whereabouts of the tangerine T/R chassis 911828422 that has number #112 on the side as last raced?
https://www.conceptcarz.com/profile/...he-911-tr.aspx
Firstly a T rally would not have a chassis number starting with 911. They all started with 118. The car that is pictured is not that chassis number. I believe the car in the images or at least another Gulf livered one looking the same was destroyed in a Connecticut house fire years ago. It is my understanding that nothing was salvageable. Hope this helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxminshull
Correct...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rennman
https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...House-and-Cars
There seems to be some confusion here (especially at the site you linked to).
The car with #112, that Don and Bill are referencing and was destroyed, was a 911L with registration number BB3020. BB3020 was the winner of the 1969 Swedish rally with Waldegaard and Helmer. As can be seen in the link that Bill posted that car ( identified as 11810414 in that post) had number 112 on it and was destroyed in a tragic fire
The car you linked to with the number 187 is a 1968 TR with registration BB2277 and was the winner of the 1968 Swedish Rally for Waldegaard and Helmer. Its Vin number is 11820422.
I am not sure where it is now but that car was on the West Coast in USA and was at least at RRIV in 2011 with that number which seems to be where the photos on that link were taken
Both cars had nearly identical livery.
Thank you for the clarification!
Hello,
68T/R Monte Carlo : Fog lights are Cibié 45, driving lights are Cibié "boule", but what is the model of the lenses in the Hella SWB SB19 headlights : sealed beam 7", or Cibié H1 7", .... ?
Attachment 587898
Thanks
answer : Cibié 102 optics (Thank you Stefan for pointing me in the right direction)
Attachment 591810
Attachment 591812
100L racing fuel tank was a well known option (document Sport Purpose 68)
Do you know if the 65L rally fuel tank was olso offered by the factory at that time and is correct for a T/R ?
https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...-Race-gas-tank
I started the reproduction of this 65L rally tank but if it is not correct for the period :(
Attachment 588105
Attachment 588103
Attachment 588104
Thanks
Gooding Amelia is offering this 1969 911 T/R:Attachment 589001Attachment 589004Attachment 589005
Hi,
Does anyone of you guys know/have any further info about chassis 11820831?
Thank you forall info possible
All I know is that it was / is a genuine factory T/R completed/ delivered from the factory (invoiced) on 24 April 1968 and sent to VW Pacific Culver City but there is no information of who the first owner (or any subsequent one) or what date it was delivered to the initial buyer. And it is light ivory
Quote:
Originally Posted by HughH
Hey, thank you for already this. Car will go now under total restoration and will be published when is ready. All the further info of first owner, pics of the car etc. Are very welcoming and if needed, I can give my phone etc contacting details for people who are more interested to cooperate around this project.
Br. Jari
Pirkkala, Finland
Jari,
I'd like to help if possible with identifying period photos of the car. These cars have been an interest of mine for a while, so I have collected photos of cars that could be missing TRs.
Regards,
Eric Gratz
https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...11S-L-and-T-Rs
Sold !! Attachment 592066
1969 Porsche 911T/R, 119100215, Gooding, Amelia Island, 2023, $467,000
I bought this car 25 years ago for 15k, restored it, and sold it for 80k, won an Amelia Award in 2000. Tons of history. Wish I still had it.
WoW !! How did you find it ??
HSR West Palm Beach 2003 Jim Moore driving this car.Attachment 592369Attachment 592370
119100215 Kardex Attachment 592410
When we talk about "factory homologation", what does this entail? Should an approval of this type appear in the KFZ Brief? What model was listed in the vehicle papers if it had been "homologation"?
"Following the highly-modified, experimental 911 R of 1967, which had not been homologated and had therefore been categorised by the FIA in the GTP class, for the 1968 season, the factory chose to homologate the 911 for Group 3 racing and GT class up to 2000cc. Considering the 911T body shell weighed 52kgs less than the 911S, the 911 T/R became the first homologated race version of the 911 available from the factory to Porsche racing customers."
If the TYP / model does not appear in the kardex shown... What could have been due to?
NO T/R
https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...th-1969-kardex
Attachment 594717
Hi, I am looking for pictures of the Vic Elford's 911 T/R Monte Carlo 68 : dashboard, interior, group 3.
Steering column switches are chrome or black ?
dash trim is in aluminium, black vinyl, thin black carpet or nothing ?
Thank you
Hamilton T/R
Attachment 594777
Bantam T/R
Attachment 594778
11820639 T/R
Attachment 594779
11820791 T/R at Freisinger
Attachment 594780
11820805 T/R at Freisingner
Attachment 594781
When I restored my T/R i tried to keep it as original as possible so the dash face was left with no covering because the car no longer had it; my understanding is that it would originally have had lightweight carpet like the Hamilton T/R.
here is a better picture of the Hamilton car showing the steering column switches. I believe that they are original to the car as is the felt lining
Attachment 594782
I have added a couple of other pictures of the interior for completenessAttachment 594786Attachment 594784Attachment 594785
I am not sure how much of a guide the Hamilton car is though as it was ordered as a "911R but with glass instead of perspex windows" and other small tweaks to make it eligible for Australian touring car regulations (just)
I expect you have this photo of the inside of the Elford TR at the Monte
Attachment 594787
it does not show a lot of detail
However this one of the sister car used by Zasada in the Monte that year shows more
Attachment 594788
According to your answers and photos, a Factory T/R had chrome steering column switches, thin black carpet as dash trim.
I am not sure 11820639 is a direct Factory T/R that would explain the aluminium dash trim ??
Elford S-C 9166 : thin black carpet, Cibie 45 fog light, Cibie boule rings and main light rings painted black, may be to avoid light reflections
The Zasada picture (S C 9167) is interesting, it shows there is no door contact switch for luggage compartment light.
Hugh, the picture where V Elford is behind the special steering wheel, could it be a model 67 because of the interior mirror bracket and heater level ?
Thanks to Bantam and Hugh
Here a link to a 68 T/R Monte Carlo. I don't have found the chassis #
https://www.gulfblue.it/porsche-911-tr-1968
"Hugh, the picture where V Elford is behind the special steering wheel, could it be a model 67 because of the interior mirror bracket and heater level ?"
it could be but that was a collection of photos supposedly of the 1968 car...... but with all of these things it is possible that they used an older photo to fill in a gap - ie show the inside
this is a photo of a 67S S-ZP 740 (308101S) he drove (and was supposed to drive in the RAC rally that was cancelled)
it does look similar
:confused:Attachment 594796
"I am not sure 11820639 is a direct Factory T/R that would explain the aluminium dash trim ??"
0639 ( the Seiler / Hart Ski car) is also possibly not a good example to pick. There are all sorts of claims about its exact beginnings but my understanding is that it should be called a genuine factory TR although it did not get delivered with a "408" 160HP S engine but rather a "208" 110hp engine. However it did have all he other TR bits including 911R flared rear arches and was delivered to Autohaus Mitter where Mitter wove his magic on the engine before final use by Seiler. Mitter reportedly built competition engines that had more power than even the factory ones that were "breathed on" prior to delivery with modifications that voided the warranty.
however that background could explain the aluminium dash in that car
"Here a link to a 68 T/R Monte Carlo. I don't have found the chassis #"
That is the T/R which was driven by Pauli Toivonen co-driver Martti Tiukkanen at the 1968 Rallye Monte-Carlo to finish in 2nd place. It is 11820455 and was car #116 (428 Z 2097) It was never a werks car but a Finnish ordered car that went to the AAW team.
this is a photo of its dash - but after restoration so I cant be sure how close it is to original
Attachment 594797
I only know about seats, and I can tell you that the Freisinger car has definitely installed the wrong seats. this did not exist in 1968.
regards uwe
Seats should be Recaro Sport or Bucket or may be a Scheel 300 ?
Attachment 594798
Or this Scheel bucket I sold unfortunatly because it was not correct for a 914-6 GT. :mad:
Attachment 594799
Attachment 594800
Scheel
Attachment 594801
I think a Recaro sport seat is correct for the car driven by Vic Elford in the 1968 Monte Carlo rally. The price of 520- DM might help narrow down the type.
Attachment 594803
This picture might help as well.
Attachment 594804
Attachment 594805
I have the recaro price lists from those years (1966 ff) - i.e. the prices that recaro e.g. has demanded from car dealers, including discounts. From April 1967, Recaro then advertised that the prices could be lowered again due to more efficient production. porsche certainly received better discounts than any reseller. in this respect i can say that 1968 520DM is completely unrealistic for a sports seat. with half the amount you would certainly be better.
the picture of the elford car shows a scheel 300 bucket seat in my opinion (same model as in the 911R but without rivets on the cord). this seat model was also available from porsche for T/R for "racing drivers". If anyone is looking for something like this, please contact me...
@ 911 TR68: your picture shows a scheel 330. also a great seat, but with smaller side bolsters. do you still have the car (914 GT)? regards uwe
@recarno,
The Scheel 300 for a T/R is the model with hand stitching, no headrest provision like this one ?
https://www.pbase.com/9146gt/scheel_...ats_300_assink
or this model but with corduroy and with or without headrest provision. It seems to have bolsters more padded
Attachment 594824
What were the possibilities for the passenger seat : Sport, Recaro bucket 4 legs, Scheel 300 ?
Yes, I still have the 914-6 converted to GT specifications.
hi wilfrid, i have just answered your pm in detail. to your question here: you can see the best original picture of a scheel 300 in the T/R in an upper answer. I am attaching it here again. the seat from you pictured now is also a scheel 300 but a later model from the early 70's. Since the bucket in your picture is in a 914, you should see a picture from below to see if it's a 914 version.
Hope I could help a bit.
regards
uwe
Attachment 594825
Here are two correct options in one picture.
BR
Claudius
Attachment 594854
hi claudius, i know this picture, but i could not assign it to any T/R. do you have the vin of the car or even a kardex? and above all a date when this photo was taken. I think I can see "wrong" adjustment levers on both seats here. on the passenger seat it looks like scheel , which did not exist in this version in 1968. the rails themselves are clearly recaro. of course, all sorts of things could have changed about the cars over the years. The picture definitely doesn't seem to have been taken in the 1960s.
of course there was also the option of ordering your car without a driver's seat - see kardex below. so all options were open to the owner.
regards uwe
p.s. Unfortunately, I cannot upload the kardex (without driver seat). If anyone wants it, I'd be happy to email it to you
Hi Uwe,
I don't think it's a time period picture too.
The seatrail base of 4 foot Recaro bucket on the passenger side is correct, driver side isn't visible enough.
Here a picture of a like NOS 4 foot Recaro with the seat rail base which is identical to the picture above. I tried to get the same angel of view.
BR
Claudius
Attachment 594874
hi claudius, i already wrote above that the rails of the 4-leg are the correct recaro rails. As I said, it's about the shape of the lever. I've circled it for you on your photo. but it is difficult to see/assess because it is covered by the seat.
the lever from the driver's seat has a "wrong" angle - I think you can see that very well. I'm also not quite sure whether the scheel bucket hasn't already been revised / is original. but this cannot be judged on this single photo. do you have more photos of this car?
but it doesn't matter now, since you say that it's a photo from modern times. so it cannot be said with certainty that the ensemble is original. and that's what this thread was about: original seat equipment from 911 T/R 1968.
regards
uwe
Attachment 594875
Hi Uwe,
I will take a picture with the seat in my car when hibernation is over. I will check my database about that specific car above.
There won't be just one correct seat configuration for the 911t/R, different cars, different drivers, different preferences - different seats. They took what was available, maybe even from the old days, especially since the seats were expensive in the option lists.
BR
Claudius
hello claudius, i already wrote that above (option to order without driver's seat). Likewise, a different seat has often been installed in racing cars when there is a change of owner/driver. larousse was e.g. a fan of the 911R bucket. a picture of your seat is not required. As I said, it was about the lever - if anyone needs lever pictures, I'm happy to post them.
regards uwe
[QUOTE=911 TR 68;1150902]Seats should be Recaro Sport or Bucket or may be a Scheel 300 ?
Attachment 594798
Or this Scheel bucket I sold unfortunatly because it was not correct for a 914-6 GT. :mad:
Back to the initial question above:
Seats should be Recaro Sport or Bucket or may be a Scheel 300 ?
BR
Claudius
Interesting to see the ad call it a “Sports” seat…
Here is a shot showing the tops of both seats for the Elford and Stone 1968 Monte Carlo Rally winner
Attachment 594924
Attachment 594929
Source: https://www.gettyimages.ae/detail/ne...?adppopup=true
Both look like Scheel
yes, they are definitely scheel. thank you for the picture. driver: 911R scheel bucket with rivets, co-driver: scheel 400 (with special headrest).
regards uwe
One more interesting topic of the picture presented:
Porsche used the British TEX Bayonet 7.2mm wiper arm and blades also for Porsche 911, not only for race cars like 910. Maybe it was a special whish of Vic Elford?
Attachment 594939
Stainless steel TEX Bayonet 7.2mm wiper arm with blade, same total length like the SWF/Bosch wiper arms and blades, both types available straight and bend arms. Here are pictures of another version with a longer base of the wiper arm.
Attachment 594941
Attachment 594942
Attachment 594943
BR
Claudius
I can reenact this setting this evening I have both of the seats at homeQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric Gratz
Spare parts list
Attachment 594945
Attachment 594946
The rear interior should looks like that even it is not Elford's T/R:
Attachment 594947
Attachment 594948
There is no Britax harnessQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric Gratz
The car had the Teka seatbelts.
Claudius
Attachment 594949
Attachment 594959
Attachment 594950
Next to the mascot are are 2 spare packets of the wiper blades in the back of the car, I think they are TEX/MAGNATEX too.
Claudius
Attachment 594951
Attachment 594952
My guess is TRICOQuote:
Originally Posted by 68S_SK2
Good point, Uli!
Could be TRICO wiper blades, but TRICO is a US company?
The equipment list describes it as "special antifrost windscreen wipers from England", but the spares could be a different brand.
Both the TRICO and TEX blades fit to the UK 7.2mm Bayonet type wiper arms.
Claudius
TRICO rubber booted arctic winter wiper blades
Attachment 594965
Great detail information, Eric.
Hello, pictures confirm Scheel racing buckets were fitted in T/R Group 3. In the Sport Purpose 68, there is no reference to Scheel, only Recaro bucket seat with kit 9553 and as an option a Recaro competition seat.Quote:
Originally Posted by recarno
If Recaro bucket seat with kit 9553 is Recaro 4 legs shown by Claudius, I have never seen a Recaro competition seat. It may be a mistake and it is in fact a Scheel racing bucket wich should have been noted.
Attachment 594966
According to the homologation paper for 911T Gr. 3, Grand Tourisme, FIA Nr. 577, signed 01/01/1968, either the standard seats with a total weight of 15kg for both seats (Nr. 42 of FIA paper) or race buckets with a single seat weight of 8kg (Nr. 46. of the FIA paper) were allowed.
Claudius
Attachment 594973
Guys there's no questionmark. Period documented photos of the Car and it's seats exist.
It‘s this pair - here the monte car. Pic from Auto Motor Sport Article about the Monte winning car.
Attachment 594978
Here the seats pics taken today - my "passenger" is driver's side without Schlummerrolle
Attachment 594974
Attachment 594975
Here is what I can find in the different Porsche spare part book editions:
11/66, 6/67, 3/69
Hope it helps.
Claudius
Attachment 594976
Attachment 594977
Attachment 594979
Attachment 594980
Hi Uli,
Could you weigh your driver side monte seat, I guess it's less than 8kg with and without the seat rails or??
1967 4 leg Recaro bucket with seat base without rail weighs 7.65kg
1968 4 leg Recaro bucket with headrest with seat base without rail weighs 8.70kg
Claudius
PS: This is what I mean when I say with seat base without rail:
Attachment 594983
Also something t/r from ams
Attachment 594982
Here the full article
Attachment 594984
Attachment 594985
Attachment 594986
And another bit
Attachment 594990
I currently have the regular not the lightweight slider mounted to the seat...
But I can put it on the scales the next time I'll unmount it from the pedestal but it's really soft and flimsy compared to recaros. I guess the passenger has itself already 15kg it's a massive thing- really heavy
I weighed: 911R scheel bucket with rivets - without rails = 7,600 grams. however, since i've had a few of these seats scheel 300 over the last 20 years, i can say that the weights differed. the lightest I had was 6400 grams - the heaviest at 8300 grams. all without rails and brackets and all with the original letherette/cord. Hope I could help a bit.
regards uwe
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911 TR 68
there was no way around the scheel 300 (regardless of whether corduroy was decorated with rivets or without rivets). those who were serious about racing actually had to grab this seat (if they could fit into the seat). recaro had nothing comparable to offer. the 4-leg was the only thing they produced on the bucket, and it just had significantly less lateral support. so scheel was THE supplier in the years 67 - 69. only then did recaro come with its racing version of the rally 1 - basically the idea of the scheel 300 was copied. but later they also did it with the scheel 400 (ideal S). in this respect, scheel was the most innovative of the two companies.
I found in my archive another picture of a T/R with the combination 911R bucket with rivets / 4-leg and am attaching it below. is certainly also a photo from modern times.
regards uwe
Attachment 595001
Hi UweQuote:
Originally Posted by recarno
The weight of my Recaro 4 leg, without rails = 6 Kg
Attachment 595009
:)
Post #172 @uai
@uai, great informations, thanks..
Parts normally deleted in a T/R are in place : cigaret lighter and ashtray.
Butler flexilight is positioned in the center, usually on the right side.
An additional horn button for the passenger. It looks like a 906 / 911R horn button
Attachment 595010
Attachment 595011
Attachment 595012
I looked and looked for that horn button for me 911R and kept finding really expensive options on eBay, etc... Eventually, I found there is a modern replacement that is incredibly close. If you are looking for one, search out a Hella button with this part number:
HE-001571171
Post #133 @ HughH, picture Hamilton T/R dasboard carpet
The dash carpet seems different from the lightened felt
Attachment 595013
Attachment 595014
Here, a picture of the lightened felt (thickness 2,2mm) and a thin black carpet (5mm)
Attachment 595016
@Atomic, I was lucky to find this horn button in pictures above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic
This one looks the same except it is in plastic : https://www.trodo.fr/interrupteur-d-...jf-001-571-101
Thanks
It's actually aluminum... The guy told me it was used on a generator of some sort. Here's a shot of mine. Think I paid $9 for it:Quote:
Originally Posted by 911 TR 68
Attachment 595040
The 2nd photo in post 179, The Hamilton T/R, rear jump seat that’s folded up…is made of paper and covered with felt, and has aluminum hardware brackets…
[QUOTE=68S_SK2;1151090]Here is what I can find in the different Porsche spare part book editions:
11/66, 6/67, 3/69
Hope it helps.
Claudius
Attachment 594976
This bucket seat looks similar to 356 Carrera GT and 356 Abarth driver seat
https://pbase.com/9146gt/image/36730828
https://mycarquest.com/wp-content/up...ts-900x600.jpg
Attachment 595971
Is it the same bucket for sale at Reutter Karosserie or 356 Speedster Carrera seat and 356 Carrera GT / 356 Abarth bucket are different ?
https://reutter-karosserie.de/en/Int...rera-seat.html
Thanks
[QUOTE=911 TR 68;1152380]Here's the one in my '67. It's the GT/Ferrari seat for 911 cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by 68S_SK2
Attachment 595965
Attachment 595966
John
Thank you John. I can see the GT/Ferrari seat is less enveloping than the Abarth.
Here is a T convert to T/R factory specifications group 3.
If anyone has more pics, it would be great if you could share them.
Door handles are 911R plastic door handles ?
https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...eply&p=1152968
Attachment 597219
The ex Paddy McNally R when in Brian Powley’s collection alongside one of only six rhd 1974 Carrera RS made. It went to a (retired) Royal Navy submarine commander in west of England — you’ll know him Nick — ( in fact think I bought a pair of (its) rare 7045 rhd headlamps from him). I won’t be indiscrete on open www. This photo was published and captioned Powley back when the red turbo was quite new so uploading here is less indiscrete. Someone who posts here was at onetime a codriver in that R with Brian Powley ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by nickd
Steve
Attachment 607645
I have questions about T/R, Britax harness and 3 points Britax seat Belts.
Harness : I have a pair of Y Britax harness that should be correct for a T/R. It is different from the model 1080 club sport (shoulder adjusters, webbing 9 rows vs 3 rows). Is it the 901 Britax model ?
My Y Britax harnesses look similar but they are different in small details :
- on the left, the attachment hook at the rear panel is chromed and those on each side of the seat are clear plated
- on the right, all 3 attachment hooks are clear plated
- on the left, the buckle is smooth, on the right it has a leather look
Attachment 633217
Britax 1080 club sport (picture from Mini Forum uk website)
Attachment 633218
3 points Britax seat belt : were they installed on the T/Rs ?
Attachment 633219