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Those who've seen the light,
Information, such as diameter, lens and housing, make-believe it is Hella, bulb type, etc. for factory above the bumper Driving Lights for SWB cars would be greatly appreciated. If you have a Hella model number that would be good too. Appologize to the list member who I believe posted this photo as I can not credit you as I've forgotten when it was posted. Thanks.
-Allen-
I wrote this a while back for our Northwest Rgruppe magazine... there are a few things I would add now, such as diameters of the lights (5" 1/8"), and the lenses (4 5/8" for the Euro type).
Horn Grill Fog and Driving Lights
Horn grill mounted fog and driving lights have long been a nice option for the early 911, but lately as drivers look to differentiate their cars these lights have become a very desireable and expensive addition.
The lights were manufactured by Hella, and are commonly referred to as the Hella 118. They have been an option for the cars starting with the SWB models, and appears to have been available as early as 1965 production. The lights were offered in most if not all markets that Porsche offered cars in, and due to local regulations, they differed in the type of bulbs and reflectors being offered.
For the US market, and for “most” of the world, the driving light version was offered in only one bulb type, the h-3 halogen type, originally referred to as “quartz iodine” referring to the composite of the early type of bulb manufacturing. This light is referred to in the factory parts manual as “additional long range lights”. If you ordered the car with this factory option, or if you ordered it from the dealer to add to your car, it only came one way…clear lense, with silver reflector, and h-3 bulb type. It appears that there was also an h-1 version of this light for limited markets, and it is rarely seen.
The fog light came in many different versions depending upon the country, and Porsche’s decision of how to offer the option. For the US market, if you ordered this light as an option for your car new, it only came in one bulb type, the tungsten 35 watt bulb. In other countries the fog light was available as an original factory option with an h-3 bulb. From my own research it would appear that you could get the light with either silver reflector, or yellow reflector in the US with the tungsten bulb. Now, if you went to the dealer after you purchased the car, and wished to add these fog lights to your car, it would appear that you had the option of either getting the tungsten bulb, OR the h-3 versions of this lamp. The h-3 version was also available with either silver reflector or yellow reflector. It also appears that there was an h-1 version of the fog lamp for limited markets, and it is also rarely seen.
Note that there is an easy way to determine whether you are looking at a tungsten bulb or h-3 version of the Hella 118 fog light. The tungsten bulb version has a slightly smaller diameter lens, and the trim ring for the tungsten version is slightly wider. Note the picture for comparison differences.
Regarding the horn grills, if the car was ordered new from Porsche with the lights as an option, ALL the grills came as chrome pot-metal, including 1973. There are black plastic horn grills out there for the fog lights, and those primarily came in the dealer offered LWB “kits” to retrofit a car not previously ordered with fog/driving lights. The SWB version of the kits were offered with the chrome metal horn grills These kits were an alternative to ordering individual parts to install the fog/driving lights on a car. The kits contained a wiring loom, relay, lights, brackets, swivel mount, switch, and all hardware….curiously they never came with the knob or knob insert.
The 911 fog/driving lights are similar to the accessory lights offered on the 914 (1970 to 1974). Most of the fog lights you will see for the 914 are the tungsten bulb version of the 911 US fog light Hella 118, but offered in a black body. There was a driving light version of the 914 Hella 118, but it was only available in black body. I have only seen this lamp on 914/6’s and on European 914’s. There was also an h-3 bulb version of the 914 fog lamp, but again, this I have only found on the 914/6 or a Euro 914, and again only offered in black body.
Currently there are no “new” Hella 118 lights available from any source, with the exception of some US tungsten version lights that an Ebay seller based in Germany is offering, his price is currently roughly $325 per pair, plus shipping. Note that these lights are something that this seller has managed to “put together” using a farm tractor Hella stop light with the lens switched to an incorrect fog light lens. Regardless, they are “semi-correct” for horn grill application (correct body, nice lens, trim ring, mounting bracket etc.). Note that I haven’t been able to find this tractor light in the US market, and may be only available to the European market.
As far as alternative lights that duplicate the size and looks of the original Hella 118, the Cibie Tango is an almost perfect replica for street use. This light offers far better optics than the original Hella 118, and you can also use the lens/reflector combo as a replacement for the original Hella 118 h-3 bulb type lens/reflector (unfortunately the cibie unit won’t swap into the tungsten bulb Hella unit). This is a great way to update an original h-3 Hella 118, though it isn’t quite “correct”. The only modification that needs to be made is that the trim ring needs to be slightly notched at the 6 oclock position to accommodate a nub on the Tango glass. Roger Grago is running this Hella 118/ Cibie Tango bulb on his car.
For correct original replacement pieces for the original Hella 118, the only item that appears to be regularly available is the fog light lens for the tungsten bulb version. So….be very careful with these lights, as you aren’t just going to order replacement h-3 lenses from Pelican, or from Stoddard for that matter.
One final note…for those of you lucky enough to find a set of original Hella 118 lights for your car. You can get a reproduction bracket off of Ebay (usual seller is MSRoadrace), and you can dremel cut a set of original horn grills to get a fairly original look. Note that to correctly mount the lights to the bracket that you will need a ¾ inch spacer to position the light slightly away from the horn grill, so that it can be accurately adjusted, see picture attached for reference. The spacer can be made from a piece of brass or copper tubing cut to the right length and painted black.
By the way,... Michael (can't remember is online name), can update with quite a few other serious details.
Here's a pic of a European 914 driving light, and a European fog light with clear reflector and another one with amber reflector.
What about the lights that my friend have on his 69, mentioned in the general section. He got his COA from the factory recently an it states that his 118 drivinglights had yellow light " 432 yellow highbeam lights above the bumper"
Dos this mean that there also was a version of the driving light with yellow bulb, reflector or lens?
John
Yellow lens, sorry no pics of those, but I've seen them.
e
Thanks Soterik(lighs expert!)
They are missing from his car, but I guess finding a set will be more difficult than getting a date with Halle Berry.
John
Michael = 70SATman
Get a clear set and paint them. Not easy to find the clear set either I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zithlord
Someone over on Pelican painted a set of h4 lenses with some kind of clear yellow paint/tint and it looked very nice.
This is the stuff Erik is referring to:
http://www.krylon.com/main/color_pro...ge_alt=Krylon® Stained Glass Color
Misterart.com used to carry it, but for some reason, they no longer list yellow...
Cool! Paint one Red, paint one blue, and put a fast flashing relay on them:D
...and for god's sake don't forget to dye your hair with a punked out racing stripe! :p
I'm a little confused Soterik (maybe I can't read)..
Are Europe light housings different how about lenses. I ask because you start but listing U.S. housings and european lenses?
Micheal SATman told be the earlier Hella, i.e. SWB lights are slightly bigger than later lights. Comments? Thanks.
-Allen-
very informative Soterik, thanks a bunch for this info.
Not quite Allen. I mentioned that there is an early Porsche press photo (67S)with the larger diameter Hellas (H1 driving lights at that) mounted instead of the smaller 118 size. The 118s of themselves should be the same size SWB to LWB. Can anyone confirm the Porsche part numbers from the 65-69 parts manuals against the numbers I have from my 71 parts manual?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr 911E
The only opinions I have that differ from Eric's is that
1. The US fogs should be referred to as TN4s, not 118s.
2. I'm not convinced that the 118 driving lights/fogs were available from the factory for US market. I believe that there was an issue similar to not being able to spec the H1 headlights for the US "S" models. If there is someone out there with genuine COA/Kardex driving lights on US delivery chime in please. I'm sure one could order them seperately or even on a tourist delivery? Why else would the US fogs even exist if the halogens were allowed? I'd also love to see who has the earliest cars with Kardex Euro fogs and Driving lights.
The 118 is a reference to the halogen reflector of which Eric is right there are 4 main types. Clear H3 and H1 and amber H3 and H1. Reflectors are the same diameter, cases and bezels are the same diameters.
The TN4 is the tungsten bulb reflector. Case is the same size as the 118s (or Euro if you like) with some interior differences. I've also seen the same reflectors marked as a TN1/TN2 in clear and amber. Interestingly the TN4 marking on the reflector was always accompanied by the TN4 lenses and same goes with the TN1/TN2s. The lense and bezel are different diameters from the Halogens and are the same sizes either TN1 or TN2/TN4. THe TN4 lense is shallower though. THe current EBay offerings Eric mentioned are mistakingly labelled as 118s. THey are actually TN1/TN2s with the TN1/TN2 split lense (not US Fog). Tractor light or no, all you have to do is get correct TN4 lenses and they are then 98% correct. Hella also makes a rear fog light using the same TN1/TN2 reflector and case but, using a red plastic lense. Again, change lenses and you are 98% in the biz for US fogs.
THere are details between the Porsche supplied Hellas and the aftermarket Hellas that I will detail in another post along with some pics and dimensions this weekend. I'm just now getting home from work and am beat.
I've been thinking that the 139/169 issues might again be a difference in tungsten versus halogen. I've seen that case style (69-72 under bumper) with a tungsten bulb reflector. I have a set of sweet amber reflector halogens in the 139s. Or was that 169s? I don't remember. Way out there theory though since I don't have enough data points to make any sort of a conclusion.
Still no five'r yet Doc;) .
Michael, I think my car is US delivery and has "above the bumper" lights on the COA. Unfortunately, I have no way of knowing for sure if it was US delivery, although I assume so.
Hey Kenik,
"above the bumper lights" could also refer to the US fogs. Is that the exact wording on the COA? Do you have the small VIN plate riveted on the windshield post? That marks US delivery for sure me thinks.
You owe me a picture of your light set up by the way;) :D
Here's the rub...my car DOES NOT have the VIN plate in the window. Admittedly, if doesn't have the front trunk plate either. :eek: I just assumed both were lost when it was repainted resale red. I guess I will have to pull back the vinyl in the windshield post and see if the rivet holes are there. That will solve the mystery once and for all.
As far as my light "set up", it has yet to be set up. My Cibies, although installed, are still unwired and the driving lights you sold me are still in bubble wrap. :o
Here is a picture of my old S, now in Japan. It had factory driving lights (and a 4 speed!) Actually, I'm not positive they were driving lights, they may have been fog lights and I can't recall, in fact, if I ever got a C of A (I'll check tonight) but I'm 99.9% sure they are original to the car as shipped.
-Allen-
Are the subject lenses currently available anywhere? Thanks.
-Allen-
Those are definitely driving lights.
Michael (from the 3/69 parts book) Illustration 9/6, (dated 11/67)
item #56
901.631.202.00 Fog lamp round - for Halogen lamps with white reflector....
901.631.202.10 Fog lamp round - for Halogen lamps with yellow reflector....
901.631.121.01 Additional main beam headlight for Halogen lamps....
Lamp part numbers:
900.631.125.90 Halogen bulb for fog lamp, headlamp 901.631.101.33/40/45, not for USA...
item#65
Glass lens:
901.631.211.00 Glass for fog lamps round 901.631.202.00 and 901.631.202.10
901.631.211.01 Glass for additional main beam headlamp 901.631.121.01
Does this match the later part numbers?
Bob
Allen, the TN4 (US fog light) lenses are available at Pelican. Search under 914 fog light parts. I think they were around $35 ea? I haven't purchased any so I can't comment on wether they are original or very good repops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr 911E
Thanks BOB, I'll check my manual this eve. and post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh
Yep, Yep.
OK K, I'll let you off easy since mine are all wrapped up too.:D
You know I had decided to save all of this for an article for the Esses. I guess I could do both.:)
For above the bumper lights,
ROW Entire light assemblies (item #6):
911 631 202 00 fog "white" glass not for USA, F, I
911 631 202 10 fog yellow reflector for France
911 631 121 00 high beam (Driving?) white not for USA, F
911 631 121 10 high bean yellow for France
911 631 213 00 fog white for I
911 631 211 00 high beam white for I
ROW Lenses (item #8):
901 631 211 00 for 911 631 202 00 or 01 or 10
901 631 211 01 for 911 631 121 00 or 911 631 211 00
914 631 930 10 for 911 631 121 10
USA Entire light assemblies (item #12)
911 631 122 00 fog up to '70
911 631 122 01 fog '71 and up
USA Lense (item #14)
901 631 211 04 lens, presumably for USA fog lights above
-Allen-
Enlightened ones,
Can anyone give me a model number or link to these lights on Hella www.hella.de site. I'm thinking of ordering some through a friend in Germany and offereing them here.
From Eric's post: Note that these lights are something that this seller has managed to “put together” using a farm tractor Hella stop light with the lens switched to an incorrect fog light lens. Regardless, they are “semi-correct” for horn grill application (correct body, nice lens, trim ring
Thanks,
-Allen-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobs 67S
For the most part Bob. From my 71 parts manual. I have this small section scanned along with the pictoral if anyone is interested. Just email me and I'll send the pdf along.:)
911.631.202.00 Fog lamp round - Halogen lamp with white reflector, not for US, France, Italy (118 reflector)
911.631.202.10 Fog lamp round - Halogen lamp with yellow reflector (varnished reflector not yellow lense) for France (118 reflector)
911.631.213.00 Fog lamp round - Halogen lamp with white reflector for Italy. THis is the H1 not the H3. (118 reflector)
911.631.122.01 Fog lamp round - Tungsten lamp with white reflector for USA (TN4 reflector)
911.631.121.00 Additional main beam (driving) - Halogen lamp with white reflector, not for US, France, Italy (118 reflector)
911.631.121.10 Additional main beam (driving) - Halogen lamp with yellow lense for France (white 118 reflector)
911.631.211.00 Additional main beam (driving)- Halogen lamp with white reflector for Italy. THis is the H1 not the H3. (118 reflector)
I won't go into the bulb and lense part numbers here but, they are in the section I scanned.
For the Doctor, I mic'd the measurements. I have to convert them so that we have both standards. I'll post that separately.
Here are my H1 driving lights and fogs for those who might not have seen them before. THey are aftermarket version 118s. THis is what the Italy versions look like.
Sorry for the small pics. Still learning my new pic editor.