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My 1973 car is an Italian market car which sold in Verona, Italy.
On the Porsche Customer Commitment paperwork I have, it lists the Italian equipment under a code of CO7 and next to it says, Italian equipment.
Does anyone know what CO7 meant or what Italian equipment meant for these cars? and is there any way I can get information from Italian sources on the history of the car?
Thanks,
John:D
CO7
°front light housing (version A : small orange and large white area), (version B: all white)
°seat belts equip. according to italian safety laws
°no hazard switch
°different interior equipment, some RoW market had unique equip. standards for their countrys.
(European saftey laws (belts, hazard) have been later adopted than US market cars.)
There is an italian member on this board, Andrea/Vipergreen who might can help you.
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...t=andrea+italy
the "Italian " housings had an additional bulb per side in them. The white portion of the lens extended all the way across the front, with only the "side-marker" portion lenses in amber.
Please see photo of 911 equipped with such lenses I took at the "Quail" a couple of years ago with the correct Italian lenses. I believe the lenses may still be available from Stoddard, but good luck on the housings. I seem to recall a thread on this forum discussing all this a few years back.
JZG
John,
some italian 911 had all white front light housing.
There have been two versions around.
I recall until late 1971 both versions existed on italian market Porsche cars.
John,
Karim is right on the differences on C07-specified cars.
Cars arrived in Verona because the importer was there (so every car that was sold in Italy apparently was sold in Verona!), without seat belts and external mirror (but every car then got them otherwise they couldn't circulate anymore) and without hazard switch on the dashboard.
If you have at least one of the italian registration numbers of your car, it's quite simple and not very expensive to get the complete list of the italian owners of the car. I already helped a few members with their cars.
Up to 1994, if a car was sold outside the province of the previous owner, it should get a new registration number of the province of the new owner, so it's quite difficult to find cars with original registrations (black square plates in the rear), and they attract quite a premium in Italy because it's a good indication of long term ownership.
Ciao
Andrea
I also have a Italian 73 911S. Yes, it is a bit differant. The lights as mentioned above, and no 4-way hazard flashers. Also, no headrests on the sport seats. I sent these to Tony to be restored and he had never seen this on a seat as new as 73. just the 2 plastic buttons on top of the seat back where the headrest posts would go in.
Andrea, I have the original black plate from Italy. Could you find the ownership history in a gave it to you?
I've seen a few 73 without headrests as well, but again is difficult to say as many of them have acquired them in the years.
I guess that in Italy, where Porsche needed to keep prices as low as possible in order to underprice Ferrari and other italian cars, they tended to spare as much as possible on standard equipment.
Rick, there's no problem, let me have the registration number.
It's circa 5 euros to know the data of the last owner and circa 30-40 euros to know the complete history.
Andrea
Thanks, guys this info was very helpful.
I had my 73 car for 5 of the 64 days I have owned it. It went from CA, damaged in transit:mad:, to my house for four days and up to Jim Newton for repair. I am getting it back Thursday :Dand in time the the CVR PCA fathers day event in Connecticut. So, when I tell you I never realized it did not have an emergency flasher switch, you will not think I am crazy. Yup, thats it. Lots of good information from everyone. I wish I had the first Italian tag so Andrea could trace ownership in Italy. Thanks, Andrea for trying. Nice car, JZG.
I contacted a Porsche dealer in Verona, Italy. They checked my vin number and came up with nothing. The car had never been serviced there. They were very nice and helpful.
So, now my interests turn to trying to find out who is the oldest Porsche dealership in Verona. Anyone have a thought on the best way to find that out?
All the best,
John:eek:
the dealership you already contacted there should know.
Don't forget there is another Italian in New York City (me!) and at least another owner of an Italian 1973 911S on the board (Steve Shea).
Glad to help however I can, even though my 1971 911S is in Italy.
Giaz
I have a 72 S Italian deliverycurrently apart for restoration that had been federalized at some point. As a result I am looking for many parts. I may be traveling to Italy in the next year or so. Does anyone know the major Porsche dimantlers in Italy?. Thanks Al
I asked the same question about my Italian delivery 1972 S Targa. Dont know if 1973 would be different.
This is the answer I got.
Dear Mr.Wiser,the italy-equipment contained the following options:34=turnsignals front white,turnsignals on sides yellow , 37=without warning light system ,447=headlamp flasher just together with driving light , ,486=without outside mirror left
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
NEOhio911S, interesting piece of info that confirms what has emerged in this thread.
@911231: there are no Porsche dismantlers in Italy, but a few guys that trade parts. It depends on what you need and in which part of the country are you going to travel.
@ John: the Porsche dealer in Verona in 1973 was called Auto-motor, but is no longer in trade.
Andrea
The "Italian" blinkers are available also in the US, although wrongly identified as French style. Seller is rennspd. No affiliation.
1973
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...Q5fAccessories
1969-72
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...Q5fAccessories
Thank you for the information, I will look at renspeed and keep following the classified, Al Fleury
Thanks much for all the help.
Andrea, thanks alot for your help on the Verona dealer matter. I can atleast say that I now know who the dealer was when the car was sold new. I got my car back from the shop yesterday and the first thing I did (after wiping it down) was to see if it had emergency flashers. I do and gather they were installed in the U.S. to pass the state tests.
Andrea, is that correct?
Ron, thanks for jumping in, your information was helpful.
I am searching for the Italian RS supplement. This is coming up as a very tough find as I have reached out to my friends in Italy and have spoken with local/suppliers in the U.S. and have had no luck. If anyone has or comes up with one for sale, please keep me in mind.
All the best,
John:D
Andrea,
Here is a photo of the plate I was talking about. Any cost involved on your end I can pay pal you. Thanks, Rick
After John finds his, I'm looking for one, too. Bill M
Karim,Quote:
Originally Posted by 911T1971
Do you know what the specific equipment would be for Swiss delivery? The country code is CO10. Thanks much.:)
Rick Cabell,
The Italian plate FI 940XXX is from Florence (Firenze), late 1978.
That means that it was not the car's original plate.
Most likely, it means that the car was no longer in the first owner's hands or, less likely, that he had moved to Florence from another part of Italy.
Giovanni
For 1972, I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by fryardds
Swiss market 911 had:
A-upgraded equipment coming standard, named "Swiss equipment" with "flat rate" price.
B-regular equipment, named "simplified" with "flat rate" price.
C-regular equipment, named "simplified" plus all options as extra price.
Version A was almost similar to US equipped cars except seat belts/safety equipment.
Although my car is an Italian market car, it has emergency flashers.
Do you think this was done to federalize the car to the U.S. market?.
It would be my guess that it was done over here. Are there other signs that this car actually went through the DOT process?
Although my car is an Italian market car, it has emergency flashers.
Do you think this was done to federalize the car to the U.S. market?.
Yes, no doubt.
My experience is that when I see a European specification car for sale in the US it is more "federal" than a federal car.
Example: most 911 3.2 in the US would now have H4 European style headlights but grey market cars would always have the horrible scoops...
Italian original early 911s would never have emergency flashers. Mine, for one, does not. If you touch under the basket weave you fell the hole, but there is no harness.
I do strongly believe all RS's did have an emergency flasher, even Italian market cars! Mine has it and I have seen others as well. Correct me if I am wrong...Mike, AJ...
regards, cees
I beleive, by early 1973 most RoW cars had it but not at all around 1968/69/70.Quote:
Originally Posted by RSexS
US federal regulations slowly got adapted in Europe and most RoW country's had their different pace.
UK cars did not adapt until 1975. (mirrors)
BTW. Keep in mind the 1973 911RS was originally not sold in the US market !
Cees,
I think that italian-delivered RS didn't originally have the flasher, but a few of them got it when they were still in Italy.
Here is #689:
Attachment 66161
Andrea
I am getting the "gut" feeling that most, if not all we done when they came to the U.S.
Anyone have Piech's telephone number!!;)
Andrea, I own a 72S Italian delivered new to Naples in February 1972. Could you help me trace the complete ownership history?It lived in Brindisi for many years. Thanks so much. Steven PQuote:
Originally Posted by vipergruen
Hi Steven,
I can help you to get the owner history of your car in Italy. I have an Italian car too and helped members from the US before.
I can't PM you as you have too less posts.
Maybe you can PM me?
BR
Claudius
Munich, Germany
I might have some data for you, if it's in my database ... just send me a pm with chassis n. and i will let you know ...Quote:
Originally Posted by sphillips1939
Stumbled over this posting, when I searched for pictures of seats in Italian delivered 73.
Interesting detail in the picture that Andrea posted is, that the driver seat hinge has no leaver and I guess also no hook to hold the backrest in position.
Have a pair of 73 double locker comfort seats with headrest holes plugged and no lever on the driver hinge, while the passenger side has the complete known mechanism in the hinge.
Had Italian spec cars unlockable driver backrest?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vipergruen
My 69E italian car has an unlockable driver backrest.
Mines have the mechanism ... comfort seats, currently out of the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk07
I'm currently trying to restore a pair of Recaro Comfort Seats.Would you please be so kind to post pictures of yours? Many thanks in advance and kind regards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biancaneve
My Italian 73S #310, Oct 72, lock on the passenger only.
Andrea, I remember italian dealer was Autogerma, not automotor... i a wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by vipergruen
Here is a mention to an Autogerma but it seems incorporated in 1994Quote:
Originally Posted by fizeus
https://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/eli.../18/S-22983/p2
Here on the History page of VW Italy
https://www.volkswagengroup.it/eng/company/history
I will try to do that next week.Quote:
Originally Posted by niushork
Autogerma was the importer, not just a specific dealer ...Quote:
Originally Posted by fizeus
Sorry to chase, any luck with the pics?Quote:
Originally Posted by Biancaneve
Many many thanks. What a time capsule!Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk07
Andrea, is there any way to find the ownership history of a 911S originally sold to Italy ? My car was an italian car that later on was exported to Germany. I have the German owners but nothing on the Italian side. ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Biancaneve
Hi, I am sorry I did not have the time yet ... still in my to do listQuote:
Originally Posted by niushork
I don't know whether the message for me, I'm not Andrea ... anyway, indeed there is, of course ... the charge to pay to the agency is not very high.Quote:
Originally Posted by niushork
Sorry for the name mistake, how it can be done? Thanks. You can PM if you want. RegardsQuote:
Originally Posted by Biancaneve
Attachment 608494Quote:
Originally Posted by niushork
Attachment 608495
Attachment 608496
Attachment 608497
Attachment 608498
Sorry to interrupt, but I too have a 72;S Italian. ( ####0614 ) How can I get info re it’s Italian life ?
Dave
Hi Massimo,
does your driver seat has also the lever on top of the hing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biancaneve
Attachment 608592
Attachment 608593
All Italian Cars delivered in 73 should have the hinge on passenger seat. No hinge, instead, on driver seat. Seat belts for 72/73 models were optionals.
I'm attaching screenshot of Italian User Manual Book for 73 T/E/S cars (quite sure 72 it's the same)
If you need some more specific photos just ask :-)
Many thanks.
So indeed only the passenger seat hinge of Italian 73 cars had the upper lever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizeus
No, it doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk07
Just found out that my 911S 73' Italian delivery has the plastic fuel tank anyone knows if this was common? it appears to be original ('72 part number) but in the COA there is no mention to this extra...Grazie!
most RoW S got plastic tank. not allowed in USA
Plastic tank was standard, not mentioned in CoA.Quote:
Originally Posted by niushork
Claudius , is there a way we can make contact until I have enough post?Quote:
Originally Posted by 68S_SK2
Steve P
I will also be interested on the owner history of my car in Italy. ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by sphillips1939
PM send.Quote:
Originally Posted by niushork
BR
Claudius
Hi Steve,Quote:
Originally Posted by sphillips1939
I asked Peter (moderator) how we could get in contact.
Best regards
Claudius
^^^^ I suggest that Steve should post his email address in cryptic fashion [broken up into pieces, at for @, etc.] or post 7 more times.