1968 T/R - "Out Of Africa"

Having followed a number of recent threads on the early competition 911’s I thought it was about time I contributed to a forum that I have found to be invaluable/entertaining/educational for a couple of years now.

As has already been discussed in other threads the term T/R, or T Rallye, seems to be a title adopted in more recent times to differentiate a particular group of cars; one could probably argue the same for both ST’s and maybe RSR’s in the early days prior to say Kremer involvement, when the factory knew them only by a model number – I have yet to discover such a model number for the T/R but like so many things to do with the “early years” I would not be presumptuous enough to say one was not used internally by the factory in addition to the part & kit numbers for the various “sport option” parts – as one of my old teachers used to say ‘you never know how much you don’t know’.

Whilst there was undoubtedly the option to take a standard T (or other models I presume) and specify a number of ‘competition’ type extras/modifications carried out either by the factory(?) or the dealer, we know from the FIA homologation document (577) together with the “Information Regarding Porsche Vehicles Used For Sports Purposes” booklet that a planned programme of enhancements were available for the 911/911L/911T & 911S for Touring Car Group 2 & GT Group 3 competition.

As a keen follower of the early “sports purpose” 911’s I thought the chances of me ever owning one were slim (my view) to non existent (my wife’s view), however, through a somewhat lengthy series of events and old connections, I have ended up owning an interesting car which although subjected to a crude repaint in its troubled past, is from what I have discovered to date, fairly complete and original.

Firstly a few facts (i.e. that have been confirmed in writing by Porsche UK and subsequently by the Classic Department at the factory) about the car from new:

Chassis No. 1182xxxx (‘T’)
Engine No. 408xxxx (‘S’)
Gearbox No. 928xxxx
Colour – Tangerine (6809)

The car was ordered by Gordon C.R. Crow (the then East African Porsche agent) and was delivered new to Nairobi, Kenya and is therefore Right Hand Drive with options including ‘Rally Kit’, Roll bar and Limited Slip Differential. Subsequent correspondence details “Recaro sports seats instead of serial seats, rubber mats instead of carpets, sport brake pads, stronger generator, front bumper lighter, without additional heating, engine: cylinder heads and intake manifolds polished, flywheel, clutch and sparkplug connectors for racing”

Whilst all of the above is present on the car there are also a few other things I have spotted to date such as up rated drive shafts and slight body differences (more detail to follow) so I will reserve judgement on the full specification until I have visited the archive; I hope to visit later this year to try and get the full build detail on the car plus any other information I can pull together on the so called T/R’s.

Over the last month or two I have been slowly dismantling the car and cataloguing the parts (picture below), up to now all date stamps found point to a June or July 1968 build. I aim to capture as much detail as possible (and post accordingly) having been inspired by the sort of detail found on a number of threads; I am particularly enjoying the detail Tom (“Flunder”) is unearthing on the parts he is using on his great build.

The only non original parts I have found to date are a ducktail rather than the standard engine lid (even I could spot that one! – this was from an interesting part of the car’s life which I will go into in more detail at a later date), the windscreen (see photo below), and a 380mm steering wheel (part no. 914.347.803.10 date stamp 12/72, it still has the foam thickening under layer but has lost its leather so will require refurb – I will retain this wheel on the car because although not original specification it is part of the cars history and at 6’4’’ is of help with leg room!).

Having spent all of its life in Africa, Kenya then Uganda, the climate has been relatively kind to the panels in most areas but less so to the interior although great to still have all the lightweight door panels/handles etc....I suppose one advantage of it being in Africa for 40 years is that there were not Porsche dealers in every town for parts upgrading so should be beneficial in terms of originality.

Whilst I do not have the skill to restore the car fully myself I do want to undertake the disassembly/cataloguing plus restoration of some of the parts (H1 headlights and front & rear light units completed) so there will no doubt be plenty of requests for help and advice! With this approach and financial constraints this will not be a “passed to specialist, phone me when its finished restoration” so it may well take some time! I will be using a number of the very skilled people we have in the UK for certain parts of the project so that I finish up with a car that meets my overall aim - one that I understand, have personal effort invested in, is to as high a standard as possible in terms of quality and authenticity.....but most of all is a great drive and goes like ****!

More to follow....

Tim

Cool! Great flares! More pics please:)

Yes the flares, great aren't they! The original owner had the rears crudely flared and the fronts rolled to run a set of Minilites, these were stolen whilst the car was pushed outside from one of its long term storage garages in Uganda when it went bust but fortunately the originals were still inside. These are interesting in their own right because the fronts are 5.5" (dated 5/68) whilst the rears are 6" (dated 6/68), however all four have the 5.5" part number but the 6" are stamped 6J by 15.......I am sure I saw a short thread talking about this on another car but have failed to find it again, if anyone knows it I would be grateful if they could post a link.

I will post more detailed photos this coming week.

Tim

Hi Tim - I had heard 'through the grapevine' that you'd got this car & have been eagerly awaiting an official announcement with details & pictures.

Congratulations on the purchase - looking forward to more details & pictures...

Spot-on Tim!
Fantastic to see the car in the week and good to see it here now, out in the open.
Looking forward to another top class thread..:)
Cheers
C

Thanks Andy - I have had it a while but wanted to get my head around what exactly I have plus understand a little more about the subject in general before I started to post......plus the usual family demands eating into time, for some reason my kids don't seem to share my level of interest!

Hello Chris - Yes finally got my backside into gear, speak soon.

Tim

Great to see it finally 'outed' Tim, looking forward to following your progress and thanks for sharing it with us.

Best of luck, Mike

Tim: What a great car; I am looking forward to a full accounting of all the special parts and dates on the car - with plenty of pics, please! I would be tempted to just leave the rear flares but put a 68 correct engine lid and grill on it. It wil be 60s fab in Blutorange!

I am eager to see how this comes out. I want to know all the details! interior, suspension etc. :)


btw, youre absolutely sure it was 6809? i know the paint plates can sometimes be hard to read.. and that paint is dead on for 6808 (burgandy red). you dont see too many people who would repaint a car burgandy.. so i had to ask.

(btw, im turning my 912 in to a T/R inspired car, and its burgandy so it would have been awesome if that was the original color)

Mike - Good to hear from you, looking forward to more of your engine updates. You don't know anyone who wants to buy an RSR replica project do you?!

Tom - I have already picked up a good early lid plus a grill which I have striped down and cleaned up. If the flares had been done well and I still had the wider wheels then I would leave as is but given I have the cars original wheels then I think back to narrow as it left the factory is the way to go.

Harry - The paint you see is a very poor respray done in Uganda along with the ducktail fitment to try and disguise the car (another story!). The factory have confimed the original as being 6809 Tangerine and the paint tag is still in place although some **** has had a good scrape at it so it will require some tender work - in Uganda they use a type of filler as undercoat and then the burgundy applied with little care so there is tangerine to be found with little trouble all round the car.

Tim

Tim

Great find! Well done. Looking forward to seeing the thread unfold with lots of juicy details.

If only these cars could talk eh?!

Awesome car. Always good to have another RHD find.

andy

Tim, congrats. Very happy to see another T/R found.
I am looking forward to a resto story.
Will be fallowing closely since I am in need of an opinions/inspirations/expeirences first hand.

Tim,

This is a FANTASTIC story and a VERY cool car......Congrats mate!!!!

It would be perfect for a progressive progress write up w/pictures for the ESSES

Please think about it and send to our editor John Dilger at:
johndilger@aol.com

Cheers

Gents - Thanks for all the kind comments, as I said at the start of this thread I have got plenty of value from the registry in the past so it is nice to be able to provide some input (Chuck I will give some thought to the Esses article idea).

What interests me the most with these early cars is getting to the bottom of how they were planned and executed; I think from all the previous T/R(?) postings there have been, there may well be more than one answer with some cars modified at a later stage "in period" whilst undoubtably some have acquired more sporting aspirations in later years.

I had always presumed that if it was a planned "factory build" then perhaps they took a "T" off the production line at some point (or even at the end) and then let the race shop guys substitute the breathed on "S" engine together with various other race/rally parts. However the most interesting thing I have found on the car to date is the securing of the engine lid. Whilst the front luggage compartment has the usual catch with release cable through to the dash, the engine lid was secured by rubber catches. The near side "B" post has no indentation for a release handle and the metal guide tube for the normal release cable that runs along the inner rear wing is also missing; this would seem to suggest an element of planning for competition purpose earlier in the production process?

Tim

What a great project! I'm looking forward to reading more about the history of this car. Please post more pictures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bantam

The only non original parts I have found to date are a ducktail rather than the standard engine lid (even I could spot that one! – this was from an interesting part of the car’s life which I will go into in more detail at a later date), the windscreen (see photo below), and a 380mm steering wheel (part no. 914.347.803.10 date stamp 12/72, it still has the foam thickening under layer but has lost its leather so will require refurb – I will retain this wheel on the car because although not original specification it is part of the cars history and at 6’4’’ is of help with leg room!).

---

Hi Tim,

Very exciting to have you bring us the details of this 911. I look forward to reading more about it. I am particularly intersted in the notion of the Factory building this car with the lightweight concept from the beginning as referenced by your photo of the left door jam area.

The steering wheel part # you mention is a hard plastic 914 wheel that was also used as a core for the thick grip 914-6 GT and RSR wheels. Check out this thread for hints on how to restore it.

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...hlight=803+RSR

Brian

Thanks for the link, I have posted a couple of photos below of the wheel as removed from the car - whilst it is obviously not the cars original wheel (sorry not the best photo but the date stamp is 12/72) from what I know of the cars history (mainly storage in Uganda for the past 30 years) I am pretty certain this would have been fitted in period. I would welcome your observations/thoughts.
Thanks

Tim

Tim,

Yep, you have a GT/RSR wheel.:cool: All you need for the correct restoration is a layer of felt material, good leather, and someone skilled enough to correctly put the leather cover on matching the stiching pattern of the originals.

Here's an original that has been dissected.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1200184940.jpg

Tim:

Good pic of the Hamilton car demonstrating the excitement factor that came standard with a TR!

If anyone can add anything with regard to the near side "B" post not having a recess for the engine lid release handle (see picture earlier in thread) please shout/post pictures etc....Was this something that could be requested by the customer? What other cars was this done on? Any other pictures would be great!

I will try and sort out a few more pictures this weekend.

Tim

Tim,
I've definately got a good shot of a 'blank' B post somewhere.
I'll dig it out.

C

Tim, great find. This is going to be a good one. Keep us posted.

The car is chassis number 11820912, which from the Red Book puts it towards the end of the 1968 T chassis.

Tim

I mentioned the wheels at the start of the thread. The front pair are 5.5" by 15" and stamped accordingly, part number 901.361.012.04 and both dated 5/68. The rears are 6" by 15" and stamped accordingly, both with date stamp 6/68 however they both have the same 5.5" part number 901.361.012.04.
Sometime last year I did see a posting talking about this, if anyone can remember it please shout.
This is one of the strange things that I hope to get a better understanding of when I get more info on the specific build/specification because according to the "Sports Purposes" document the only non matching wheel combination homologated was if you had the 7R on the rear with 6" up front....this may have been specified given the type of African roads the car was intended for so a more "Rally" than "circuit" purpose?
Again any thoughts/ideas very welcome....plus many thanks for the messages/info/help I have already received.
The following pictures are all from one of the rear wheels:

got this paper already ?

Facsimile of January 68 FIA Homologation 911T
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5717/dsc01618vf7.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1112/dsc01624zl9.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6974/dsc01637zy2.jpg

Karim
PM sent.
Regards
Tim

The seats I believe to be the originals (welcome any input from the Seat Police) but the African climate and/or wildlife has not been too kind!

The first seat is a Recaro Sports Seat, vinyl bolsters and houndstooth centre, interesting to note that the houndstooth material is attached to basketweave vinyl at the point at where it should be secured...was this usual?

The second seat I am assuming is a Scheel, or could this be aftermarket?

Both seats were on Recaro tilting bases using the lightweight Recaro runners (the type with 4 adjustment holes on the down bend at each end).

Tim

Now Tim,

I found that pic of the blank B Post I was referring to earlier..
Crystal Blue is a '68 factory car I believe - in original condition. Looks to be a very 'crisp' treatment - almost a pressing..?
2nd pic is my own project ;)

Tim: The second seat is indeed a Scheel - someone on the board will know the model number. I have a Scheel catalog and will look it up for reference if no one else chimes in.

Chris - Thanks for posting the picture, I remember that picture but had failed to find it! I think it is chassis 11820834 (?). The interesting thing is that the "B" posts are different with #834 being a definite circle compared to mine.
#834 at a guess would be an approx December '67 build whilst #912 is looking like July '68 so perhaps it is down to the type of panel (prior to pressing for the engine release) that was around at the time ????
Still begs the question with regard to was this part of a pre planned build modification or changed at the end of the build.....

Tom - Thanks for that, any reference on the Scheel would be useful, particularly interested in the type of head rest both seats would have had, they both have provision for them but unfortunately no longer with the car.

Tim

Hi Tim

Congratulations on a fantastic find

the blue car above is 11820834
the records I have are that it was built in April 1968 and delivered to Mahag, Munich but i don't have a copy of the source documents, only reports from when it was sold at some stage.

Here are some more pictures of cars without the pull. Both are ST's and at least one of them had no tube etc for the release wire to run thru (I don't know about the other)

also there is a pic of another 1968 T/R but this one has a pull. Not many photos that I have show this part of the car but i have another one of a Pauli Toivonen (werks?) car 11820455, that just shows it at the edge of the photo and that one seems to have a pull.

So I think that even in competition cars it may be rare to have no pull - are any of the other parts for the pull there - ie the tube etc? which you report is not there. If they are not I would be fairly confident that it came without one.

the other problem in looking at other cars now is the part may have been replaced over time. the pic of the TR I posted witgh a pull looks nothing like yours or the blue car and neither does the Toivonen car BUT they are all current photos
the challenge is to find a period photo of this area - very hard as most photos with an open door are facing the dash!

Hugh

Thanks for the feedback and photos.

I have checked again and there is definitely no guide tube and no sign of one being removed; whilst the environment the car has been in means plenty of refurbishing I am fairly confident most of what I am finding is original. It seems a little strange that they would go to all this trouble yet retain the cable release and associated catches for the front luggage compartment?

The point you make about finding period photos to get to the bottom of some of these details is spot on. Hopefully over time I can find some more period photos of the required detail plus gather info from a trip to the archive, both with regard to the specific car and more generally with regard to competition orientated production/modifications.

Tim

Congrats and welcome to club:)
Not to steal the thunder, but PO confirmed that he put a hole in B panel for a eng. lid release cable.
Also COA said : "R" type engine lid

Can anyone tell me what the "z" stamped on the transmission housing means?

Tim

The door interior lightweight cards and pull handles were with the car.

The lightweight door cards use a lower hole for the pull strap than found on later examples in cars such as the RS. They also show some evidence of either "trial and error" on the rear or maybe the use of a standard card modified for lightweight use?

The pull handles are of a stronger/harder plastic than the ones you can currently order from Porsche, one has a "3" on the rear whilst the other has a "4" on it?

Tim

The 3 & 4 on the handles would likely refer to the cavity in the mould. Plastic injection moulds for small parts will often have multiple cavities to produce several parts at one time. A number stamped in the cavity can identify which cavity is producing bad parts.

Hi Tim,

Outstanding find! Congratulations.

I think the z could be the signature of the person who did the final casting or transmission assembly quality check.

My 901/02 w LSD and 901/54 w LSD both have a z, the 901/02 even twice.

One more special thing I want to point out of your car is that the reinforced type of Nadellas are installed, which are about 300 Gramms lighter each than the normal skinny typ of Nadellas. The reinforced type was also used for the 904.

Happy to see any detail!

Best
Claudius

Reinforced Nadellas! WOW!

From time to time this forum reveals an aspect of Porsche that I never had the slightest idea even existed.

Great thread, incredible find. Can't wait to see more.

Tim,
what is the type # on the bottom of your gearbox?

Hi Tim,

It would be very interesting to know which kind of special gear ratio transmission your car has?
Gearbox No. 928xxxx could be
-901/50 special ratio on request
-901/51 hill climb
-901/52 airport
-901/53 fast race
-901/54 Nurburgring

If the stamps on the peen of the transmission case are unreadable, the following red number would tell us:
Gearbox No. 928xxxx

Claudius

Thanks all for the feedback, learning all the time so please keep it coming. Any prompts to dig deeper in certain areas is appreciated.

davep....thanks for clearing up the numbers on the pull handles, makes sense as they certainly don't look as if they have any part number relevance.

Claudius....thanks for the information on the Nadella drive shafts and the comparison picture, very interesting, I was not aware of the weight difference.

Claudius/Dave.....I will try and get under the car to get more info this coming week but I can tell you that the gearbox is number 9281xxx. From your list does this make it "hill climb" or dosen't it work like that?

Thanks again for the feedback, anything else you can tell me would be really interesting; I get the feeling I have plenty more to learn!

Tim

Tim,

Hill climb - correct! That makes sense!

AA-E-I-M-O

Claudius

PS:
One of the Nadella joints of your picture shows typical signs of wear! Hopefully the wear didn't affect the Nadella structurally so you could solve the problem by replacing the needle bearing.

Claudius

Thanks for that.

Although I don't know much of its competition history I believe the car was used in hillclimbs near Entebbe in Uganda so that gearing would make sense. The car was originally supplied to Nairobi in Kenya and was of a more "Rallye" spec than "Racing" spec so again the type of roads/use would suggest a transmission for better acceleration rather than outright top speed.

Tim

I think that the "z" stamp on the gearbox case denoted a limited slip differential. I am no expert, though.

The pics I posted are from my car.

Raj

I think you are correct, the black on the underside of the roof looks to be glue....the headlinning was not present when I got the car, however, the rear view mirror ('68 year only breakaway type) has some black material trapped between the two halves so I think this would have been a cloth type headlinning rather than vinyl?

In terms of general paint finish I will finish dismantling the car and then get it to somewhere with space and a ramp so that we can fully understand and document what has been applied when and where. The later purple paint (and its filler type undercoat used in Uganda) is fairly easy to isolate so we can hopefully get a clear appreciation of the original finish.

The harness mounting points are one on each side by the roll bar feet, one in each corner of the rear shelf and two above the centre tunnel in front of the rear seat area.

Tim

Tim:

I am wondering if the car might have had lightweight carpet in lieu of a headliner.

Can you determine the color and nature of the fibers caught under the mirror?

Could it have been black lightweight carpet?

Best,

Tom

Tom

Managed to get the mirror off after a few choice words!

It is a carpet like black material that has evidence of being glued to the roof. Not the biggest sample but if you have any thoughts as always they would be very welcome.

Tim

Tim:

Factory sports purpose preparation for TR and ST sometimes included lightweight carpet glued to the roof.

I think the carpet stuck under the mirror provides all the documentary evidence necessary to restore your TR accordingly.

What fun to find an unrestored car!

Tim, I've seen perlon headliners on factory TRs and STs.

Tom/Jens

Thanks for the feedback, a definite lesson in not throwing anything away at this stage.

Are you aware of anyone making such a thing (in the dim distant past I thought I had read about someone selling "R" type headlinnings although I could be dreaming...would this be the same thing of the correct material?).

OR

is it a case of getting a supply of the correct Perlon (if available) and making one.....my wife would be so pleased to learn that she could have some input to the restoration......not!

Tom - what have you decided to do on your ST?

Tim

I've posted this shot I took at RR III in November of '07 several times before. It's red perlon and was installed in 911 R #17, (as in the 17th) made and really looks "the business".

Tom - what have you decided to do on your ST?


Tim:

The shop is of the opinion that a factory built 2,3L circuit prepped ST had lightweight carpet material simply affixed with glue to the inside roof panel. This was installed in lieu of a traditional headliner.

The 1971 Safari cars had a special black perforated headliner made from the same headliner material as used on 3.0 CSL (which is now NLA).

It seems that at least some rally prepped cars had traditional ivory headliners.

Matt's 1972 M471 2,5L ST has its original perforated black headliner.

All this is to say that there are at least three choices for the hotrod: black lightweight carpet and traditional black and ivory headliners, albeit the correct black headliner material is NLA. The perlon material is readily available.

For the hot rod I had intended to install a standard ivory headliner although the shop still wants to use lightweight carpet.

Based on the documentary traces of carpet found under the mirror base of the "out of Africa" TR I would not consider anything but black lightweight carpet for its restoration.

I will ask the shop to relate some details on the carpet installation and post what I learn.

Both seats were on Recaro tilting bases and lightweight runners, does anyone know if it was usual for a Scheel seat to be installed in this way?

Pictured below are the two bases and the runners (the Scheel bucket was on the full runner set with the adjustment whilst the Recaro Sport was on the other runners with the seat adjustment handle built into the seat base). Interestingly the upper runners from the Recaro Sport seat are the longer version.

Tim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flunder

Tim:

Factory sports purpose preparation for TR and ST sometimes included lightweight carpet glued to the roof.

I think the carpet stuck under the mirror provides all the documentary evidence necessary to restore your TR accordingly.

What fun to find an unrestored car!

---

Just noticed this thread. My car is TR chassis no 11820828. Can confirm that my car had the carpet like material glued to the roof in place of a normal roof lining. It was also glued to the lower dashboard in place of the usual basket weave. Fascinating to see another RHD TR unearthed in unrestored form. :)

Hi RennTyp

I always have understood that there were only 4 RHD T/R's made.

I heard this in relation to the Hamilton T/R - and I believe that the source was Porsche while Hamilton (who was the Porsche distributor for Australia) owned it (and it is still claimed by the current owners) but I did not see that first hand.

Do you have any further information on the number of RHD cars?

If it is only 4, does yours, 11820828, The ex Paddy McNally car 11820884 (used to be 2BRX) the ex Hamilton one (now owned by the Bowden family in Queensland) and this one, 11820912, make up the whole contingent of RHD T/R's made?

If so that would be remarkable given their intended use and the fact that they are now over 40 years old.

Josh Sadler is the chap who's done the most research on this and he told me that there were 4 - mine, the ex-Eoin Sloan "2BRX", the Hamilton car and a fourth. Josh remembers this as being used in the mid 70s in UK autocross events and thought it to be written off. That makes this car a new find and a fifth RHD chassis.

RennTyp - thanks for your note regarding the headlinning, the more I look at the car the more I can see evidence of the use of the carpet rather than the normal headlinning.
Interestingly my lower dash was vinyl covered albeit without the chrome trim pieces that usually hold the vinyl/basketweave. These small variations are really interesting although I think it would be easy to get lost in trying to rationalise them when it may just have been a case of the competition department using whatever was close to hand!

Hugh - I was told/or have read that there were 5 RHD T/R's and that the fifth was destroyed in the early '70's......not sure if this is true or any idea of chassis number; perhaps RennTyp has further info? (RennTyp - you are probably alot further down the research road than myself).

Tim

Tim:

Here is an example, as referred to by RennTyp, of lightweight carpet employed for trimming the lower dash on an original factory prepped car, albeit an ST.

Please post a pic of the vinyl material used to cover the TR's lower dash, when you can. Is is basketweave, elephant hide (most fitting) or flat grained?

Hugh:

Good detective work!

There you go, beat me to it!

Sound like there could well be something in both accounts ie. 5 RHD, one of which was destroyed?

Tom - I will get photo later but I can tell you it was flat grained, as used on the door cards I think.....yes elephant hide would have been appropriate!

Tim

Tim:

I am still wondering about the rear fender enlargement on the "Out of Africa" TR and the FIA homologation papers as posted by Karim are very interesting.

Here is a detail of Foto 3 from the omologato papers for TR as posted by Karim. I suppose the TR flare is identical to the fender enlargements used for typ 911R.

Is there a weld seam on the inner fender that would indicate that the TR flare was installed (prior to the enlargement at the top of the wheel opening having been installed to accomodate use of the wider, later minilite)?

Tom

Tom, re the jan.68 Homolgation paper, I sent a copy to Member Bantam/Tim, as requested by him.

As for above foto, the FIA paper describes special sport equipment with 6Jx15" front (width 1379mm) and 7Jx15" rear (width 1365mm plus spacer 27mm) lightwheight wheels. "Radlaufblende" has item number 901.503.325/326.00

Karim:

Thank you for the clarification on the use of the Radlaufblende part nbr 901.503.325/326.00 in conjunction with the 911R wheel and 27mm spacer.

This makes perfect sense as use of the flare allows a wider rear track when employed with the 27mm spacer and 7R wheel. The increased track meant that the wheel opening needed to be flared to cover the tire in order to comply with FIA regulations.

As the Out of Africa TR had deep sixes and not the "special sport equipment" 7Rs with spacers for the rear, I suppose it did without the flares.

Tim: sorry to get off on a tangent.

Tom/Karim

I have checked the rear arches as well as I can in the garage and I can see no sign of a seam from any flare attachment; I will obviously undertake a more detailed examination in the future when we get it up on a ramp.

I think your summary is correct given that the deep 6's (and 5.5" fronts) are the original wheels, in other words the Minilites that were stolen were a post delivery addition in Africa with corresponding "non factory" arch modifications!

This touches on the whole issue of how to restore. My view is that I would prefer to go with the car's original wheels and the car as it left the factory (although this means work on the shell to correct the arches) rather than leaving the arches as they are now but therefore having to source and use non original wheels.

Tom - photos below show the front and rear of the dash vinyl plus one of it in situ before I (carefully!) removed it having taken the knee pad off.

Tim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by varunan123

Tom
This subject has intrigued me for awhile-if one looks at the 911R the fenders are rolled and the rear bumper has a flare-unlike the T/R's they seem to have standard bumpers
Raj

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Raj
studying the document again and if I understand the technical infos correctly, the Jan.68 FIA homolgation document does list rolled fenders are used in combination with "Blende am Radlauf/Radlaufblende" as on Foto 3 above.

"Radlaufborde li/re umgelegt"
(i.e shelf on wheel arch, left/right, apportioned)
"Blende am Radlauf, hinten"
(i.e trim on wheel arch, rear)

As for the availability of this item I have no idea only that an 901 item number is listed.
As its the case with other sport equipement items like gear transmission ratios, stone guard engine/transmission, stone guard front area, 100L (security)-sport gas reservoir, 6Jx15/7Jx15 1379mm/1365+27mm or 4 1/2 Jx15 steel or lightwheight wheels etc.-

"My view is that I would prefer to go with the car's original wheels and the car as it left the factory" Bantam

Tim:

I agree entirely. The car will be spectacular in "as delivered" trim.

Having the original-to-the-car, date coded wheels for a race car is just unheard of. So the OoA TR will have something very special, I think.

The dash vinyl looks really interesting. I would carefully clean it and give it a good conditioning and then re-install it for the restoration.

Raj, Karim:

Thanks for the insights on the question of TR spec flares/bumpers. I will look through the competition parts lists and revert if there is something to add. Twisted SWB at the Nordschleife - has it got a TR flare combined with a standard bumper?

Whilst looking through some photos of the Hamilton T/R yesterday that I recently received (thanks Jeff) it was interesting to note the cars "B" post.

Not only is it identical to the one on my car (unlike say the blank "B" post on the blue car posted earlier in the thread which has a more precise round shape) but they both share what can best be described as an "imperfection" in exactly the same place just above the striker plate (we initially thought it was a run of paint that needed sanding down!) which would suggest that these panels were stamped rather than individual modifications(?)....would welcome thoughts of any experienced body shell people.

Having said all that I have never studied other "B" posts with the normal opening to see if this is common to all.

Thanks to Chris ("gilbert911") who spotted it yesterday.

Tim

That imperfection is in the factory stamping.

Here is an SWB doorpost with the "cup" for the lid pull added, notice the bump?

I think they just didn't bother welding in the cup for the light cars.

I think that imperfection is a function of the door latch-- when they changed the stamping in 1967-- look at these photos of my red '65 production shell and Leon's 1966 masterpiece. . . no bumpy.

Contrast this with Gytis' 68 TR. . . white car with 67- door latch and 65-66 bolts and an apparently early stamping

Thanks to all for contributing to this post. It's simply fantastic!

In John C's photo of the blue door latch panel - look closely at the catch, it has an arrow shaped nub (both on the top and bottom) that references on the those two stamped nubs. Look at Bantam's photo (the black/orange panel - just below the Hamilton photo) there is the nub on the inside lower edge too.

John has made a very good observation that the 1964/65 cars did not have nubs and used the enclosed catches. When the catch changed in 1967 (mid 1966?) the nubs appeared.

I would venture a guess the stamping for the lid release on the Crystal blue 68 (post # 29) and Hamilton car (post #70) was left un-opened and not completed as a normal production panel would have been...becoming another cool factory race item.

Tim:

Regarding the rear flares....for me, I would leave them as they were initially modified...40 years ago as far as you know. I think they are well done and unique, and are part of the history of this car that has survived all these years. I think they add quite a bit to the car and will allow you to go with the 27 mm spacers and fill them out pretty well. Whether to 'go back to original' or some evolution version is always a question for every restoration. If it were a radical 80's mod...'forgetaboutit', but since this was done for function and most likely very soon after arrival in Africa, it seems more a part of the car than the little time the factory version lived on it. And while being 1 of 4 or 5 makes it pretty special, there is only one that looks like the "Out of Africa' T/R. But, I am an R Gruppe guy at heart, and the 'factory only' crowd will disagree.

Gib

Wow...barn find of a lifetime!

While these ST details are very interesting, we are distracting the owner from telling us the best part...THE STORY!!!

Please give us at least a little more of the story...just a teaser. :D

A few details on the engine - type 901/02 2 litre S, number 408xxxx, production number 15xxx; in the list being compiled by Dave this puts it as a fairly late 1968 model year engine.

From what I have found out so far I have no reason to doubt the 54490 (miles) on the speedo.

This is the car's original engine and from the correspondance with the factory it came with "Rallye Kit, cylinder heads and intake manifolds polished, flywheel, clutch and sparkplug connectors for racing". To get to the bottom of the full spec I want to get the full details from the build sheet followed by a careful strip down by an experienced engine man to see exactly what we find.

Once the engine and gearbox come out I will obviously post more detail.

For now a few photos:

Bantam's great find Out of Africa showcases the many fascinating details of the MY 1968 911 T-R ("TR").

In an earlier post Bantam mentions that Porsche outlined the basic specifications of the TR in the official 1968 factory performance manual Information Regarding PORSCHE Vehicles Used for Sports Purposes.

While many on the board have access to the Sports Purposes manual, perhaps it would be useful to provide for others a few relevant pages of TR reference material relating to PORSCHE PRODUCTION COMPETITION CARS 1968. The TR is a factory built competition car and preparation follows a generally consistent pattern as described in the following scans.

Here are a few pages that will serve to orient the reader to the basic specs of the TR noting the Vehicle type 911 T for GT Group 3.

I'm looking forward to Bantam filling in all the details, to wit unique B posts, carpet headliner, etc. and most importantly the story.

These pages are excerpted from the edition dated 6th March 1968.

Tom very cool documentation. You amaze me with all the cool bits you have!

Very neat project, I cannot wait to see this project through! !

JW

Hi Jon:

Here are two more pages that are relevant to Tim's TR featuring accessories that we all like: Fuchs and roll bars.

These Sports Purposes excerpts show the wheels fitted to the front and rear, Fuchs 5 1/2s and deep sixes, respectivley.

Another page provides the details relating the roll bar, just as fitted to the Out of Africa TR.

Tom

Thank you .. Very cool saved and printed and tossed in the binder!!

JW

Firstly thanks to Tom for posting the relevant pages, helps to give the thread some structure and I will try and use them in a later posting to give a better overall understanding of the spec.

The accurate initial spec and to some degree "the story" are sort of work in progress at the moment as I try and piece together things I know to be true, with what looks likely, and things that you would assume but I am trying to avoid assumptions where possible as I think it is all too easy to start getting the two merged!

In terms of the story here is a brief summary of what I know:

Ordered by and supplied to Gordon C.R. Crow (East African porsche main agent at the time - see rear wings in photo below, NOT my car I must stress) Nairobi, Kenya. I was told that Gordon Crow actually visited the factory to agree the spec for the first owner - this may be able to be confirmed if I can get access to factory paperwork.

The first owner used the car in Kenya before taking it with him to Uganda when he was transferred with his work in the early '70's.

In approx 1970/71 he had the rear wheel arches widened and fitted Minilite wheels all round, putting the original 5.5” and deep 6” Fuchs into storage.

After approximately one year he was told to leave the country personally by Idi Amin (a common occurrence for white business people in Uganda around this time) and was given just 12 hours notice so he put the car into storage.

In the late 70’s the car was “disinterred” by a local Ugandan and put on Ugandan plates.

Rallying was still taking place in Uganda at this time (even though up to an alleged 500,000 had been killed) because Idi Amin was a keen motorsport fan (I believe he had been given two works Maserati engined Citroen SM’s by the French president). The car was used in a few local events such as sprinting/hill climbing at Entebbe near the airport.

Aware of the original owners's search for the car, the current user fitted a ducktail, and a megaphone exhaust in an attempt to disguise the car. (There were not many early 911’s driving around Uganda at the time!).

In 1979 Idi Amin was deposed; it took the owner a further 4 years to legally recover the car. The car had no Licensing Authority file and it was not easy for him to register it in Uganda from his home in Kenya so he decided to sell it in Uganda. The car was still in a good condition and was reregistered and put back into storage due to the new owner spending considerable amounts of time out of the country.

At some point the garage where it was being stored went bankrupt and the car was pushed outside resulting in the spares going missing, namely the original engine lid, the minilites and the spare wheel (fortunately the original Fuch wheels were not taken).

In the early 1990’s the car was lightly resprayed in purple!

At the end of the 90’s the owner discovered that the car was a “special order” car and planned to restore it although this never happened.

In 2001 the car changed hands again in Uganda, still with only 54,000 miles on the clock, with a view to restoring the car. The owner obtained confirmation from Porsche Cars GB that it was an original RHD T fitted, from new at the factory, with the “S” engine, Rallye Kit etc........ in other words a 911 T Rallye or T/R as they have now become known; although this was never an official factory model designation.

The car was subsequently shipped to the UK in the summer of 2008 where I became its new owner. Subsequently the cars outline build details have been verified by the Porsche Classic Department at the factory; I hope to obtain full detailed build specification later this year.

Tim

Hmmm, Makes you wonder what the VIN and particulars ARE on #22. A LHD rally car from appearaces. German plates. Any idea as to the date?

Dave

I don't want to hijack this great thread but these are the details of UL Y 826.

It was a factory rally car

Body
1968 911T A series Coupe (built in 1967)
Colour No. 108 Blood Orange (Monte Carlo Red)
Chassis No: 118 2 0427

Engine (this is what was provided to me – you engine guru’s can say whether it makes sense especially the engine number)
Engine No: 908058
Engine Type: 901/03 Modified to S specs 1,991 cc
Bore: 80
Stroke: 66
Compression ratio: 8.6:1
Power BHP/RPM 175 @ 6,600

Gear Box
Close ratio 901 S Type
Geared to 120mph @ 7,200 rpm in 5th

EUROPE 1967:
Acropolis Rally
Spa 24 hours
84 hour Marathon de la Route on the Nurburgring

1968:
East African Safari: Edgar Herrmann
London to Sydney Marathon for Hermann: car 55

1969 Australia:
converted to RHD
extensive motor sport history in Australia 1969 - 1998
currently owned by collector enthusiast in Melbourne Australia

Pics
Africa
London Sydney
current

PS I would appreciate any photos of it at Spa, Nurburgring or the Acropolis in 1967

Raj - It is a different car, as I stressed in my post:

"Ordered by and supplied to Gordon C.R. Crow (East African porsche main agent at the time - see rear wings in photo below, NOT my car I must stress) Nairobi, Kenya."

shown to give reference to the supplier of the car.

Tim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bantam

Firstly thanks to Tom for posting the relevant pages, helps to give the thread some structure and I will try and use them in a later posting to give a better overall understanding of the spec.

The accurate initial spec and to some degree "the story" are sort of work in progress at the moment as I try and piece together things I know to be true, with what looks likely, and things that you would assume but I am trying to avoid assumptions where possible as I think it is all too easy to start getting the two merged!

In terms of the story here is a brief summary of what I know:

Ordered by and supplied to Gordon C.R. Crow (East African porsche main agent at the time - see rear wings in photo below, NOT my car I must stress) Nairobi, Kenya. I was told that Gordon Crow actually visited the factory to agree the spec for the first owner - this may be able to be confirmed if I can get access to factory paperwork.

The first owner used the car in Kenya before taking it with him to Uganda when he was transferred with his work in the early '70's.

In approx 1970/71 he had the rear wheel arches widened and fitted Minilite wheels all round, putting the original 5.5” and deep 6” Fuchs into storage.

After approximately one year he was told to leave the country personally by Idi Amin (a common occurrence for white business people in Uganda around this time) and was given just 12 hours notice so he put the car into storage.

In the late 70’s the car was “disinterred” by a local Ugandan and put on Ugandan plates.

Rallying was still taking place in Uganda at this time (even though up to an alleged 500,000 had been killed) because Idi Amin was a keen motorsport fan (I believe he had been given two works Maserati engined Citroen SM’s by the French president). The car was used in a few local events such as sprinting/hill climbing at Entebbe near the airport.

Aware of the original owners's search for the car, the current user fitted a ducktail, and a megaphone exhaust in an attempt to disguise the car. (There were not many early 911’s driving around Uganda at the time!).

In 1979 Idi Amin was deposed; it took the owner a further 4 years to legally recover the car. The car had no Licensing Authority file and it was not easy for him to register it in Uganda from his home in Kenya so he decided to sell it in Uganda. The car was still in a good condition and was reregistered and put back into storage due to the new owner spending considerable amounts of time out of the country.

At some point the garage where it was being stored went bankrupt and the car was pushed outside resulting in the spares going missing, namely the original engine lid, the minilites and the spare wheel (fortunately the original Fuch wheels were not taken).

In the early 1990’s the car was lightly resprayed in purple!

At the end of the 90’s the owner discovered that the car was a “special order” car and planned to restore it although this never happened.

In 2001 the car changed hands again in Uganda, still with only 54,000 miles on the clock, with a view to restoring the car. The owner obtained confirmation from Porsche Cars GB that it was an original RHD T fitted, from new at the factory, with the “S” engine, Rallye Kit etc........ in other words a 911 T Rallye or T/R as they have now become known; although this was never an official factory model designation.

The car was subsequently shipped to the UK in the summer of 2008 where I became its new owner. Subsequently the cars outline build details have been verified by the Porsche Classic Department at the factory; I hope to obtain full detailed build specification later this year.

Tim

---

By it's script on it's rear lid this seems to be a 64-66 LHD car.

Richard

The picture I posted above was with regard to the supplying dealer who is referenced on the rear wings of a car taking part in the East African rally (the photo can be found in "Porsche 911 Story" by Paul Frere). This is an earlier LHD German car.

Tim

That engine should have been in a very late 1966 MY car (the famous 1967 Deluxe model). It is possible that the car is a 1966 and that the modified engine wound up powering a 1968 rally car (another 1968 TR possibly?). Spare engines would be a necessity. The Kardex for 11820427 would be very telling. If possessed by the same owner, the plates might have been transferred.

Hugh

Great info on that car, I have obviously had an interest in this picture because of the sponsorship but have never been able to quite reconcile some of the detail in the picture.....from your info and Raj's good eye on the door handles it looks like nothing more than a swoped earlier engine lid had managed to convince me that it was earlier than '68!

Tim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bantam

Hugh

Great info on that car, I have obviously had an interest in this picture because of the sponsorship but have never been able to quite reconcile some of the detail in the picture.....from your info and Raj's good eye on the door handles it looks like nothing more than a swoped earlier engine lid had managed to convince me that it was earlier than '68!

Tim

---

??

To me it looks like all 3 pictures show a LHD. What am I missing?

It looks to me that the license plate was used on more than 1 car?

Richard

Richard

Yes, all the pictures are of the same car I believe as detailed by Hugh and links to the picture I posted of the same car going through the water splash.

But for clarification...

I only posted the original picture going through the water splash to highlight the East African Porsche agent Gordon C.R. Crow that had its logo on this LHD German car. I am not suggesting that it has anything to do with my car other than trying to discover more about this Porsche dealer who was the original supplying agent of my car.

Tim

Do I have this right?

A. Out of Africa T/R

Bantam's Out of Africa T/R is Ch Nbr 11820912 with Engine Nbr 4081479.

His Out of Africa car is originally a RHD unit.

It happened to have been imported through the factory agent and distributor for East Africa, Mr. Gordon C.R. Crow.

Crow sold this special order car to his customer, the car's first registered owner (as yet un-named) in Nairobi, Kenya.

B. Gordon C.R. Crow sponsored T/R

The interesting picture being discussed, showing the Gordon C.R. Crow sponsored car entered on behalf of the factory in the East African Safari, and which bears his name on its rear quarter panels, is an entirely different car (NOT Bantam's Out of Africa car) with Ch Nbr 11820427 with Engine Nbr 908058.

It seems that Mr. Crow imported this T/R as a used race unit into Africa, which sounds convincing given the factory's penchant for getting full value out of its race and rallye chassis.

This car was originally supplied by Porsche as a LHD unit and according to Hugh H was subsequently converted to RHD locally in Australia in 1969. I believe such conversion is a pre-requisite to registering any vehicle privately imported into Australia.

However, this T/R appears now to be LHD in the current color photo showing the car at a race meeting - with a pranged LF fender and proud owner in driving togs.


C. So, just how Many T/Rs were sent out to the Dark Continent?

There is Tim's car Ch Nbr 11820912 now in England, the Gordon C.R. Crow sponsored car Ch Nbr 11820427 now in Australia and perhaps a third car Ch Nbr Unknown thought by Josh Sadler to have been written off somewhere in Africa.

If there is a third one, who will find it? If it existed at all, its bones are most likely still whitening in the sun.

Perhaps a modern day Howard Carter, who exclaimed to his benefactor Lord Carnavon upon first peering into the tomb of Tutankhamen, "Yes, I see wonderful things."

Thank you Tom, why didn't I try to explain it like that!

To add to your post:

A. Out of Africa T/R - Yes that is correct.

B. Gordon C.R. Crow sponsored T/R - I don't know if this car started as a T/R or was a T that was subsequently modified with "Sports Purposes" parts? Maybe Hugh can add something on this.

C. Can't add anything on the possible third other than the story (and I stress story, nothing more) that I heard was that the T/R that Josh is I believe referring to was one of the RHD cars and it happenened in the UK or maybe on mainland Europe in the early '70's?

Tim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flunder

Do I have this right?


B. Gordon C.R. Crow sponsored T/R

The interesting picture being discussed, showing the Gordon C.R. Crow sponsored car entered on behalf of the factory in the East African Safari, and which bears his name on its rear quarter panels, is an entirely different car (NOT Bantam's Out of Africa car) with Ch Nbr 11820427 with Engine Nbr 908058.

It seems that Mr. Crow imported this T/R as a used race unit into Africa, which sounds convincing given the factory's penchant for getting full value out of its race and rallye chassis.

This car was originally supplied by Porsche as a LHD unit and according to Hugh H was subsequently converted to RHD locally in Australia in 1969. I believe such conversion is a pre-requisite to registering any vehicle privately imported into Australia.

However, this T/R appears now to be LHD in the current color photo showing the car at a race meeting - with a pranged LF fender and proud owner in driving togs.

---

Tom

This car was originally a werks car for acropolis, marathon (part of the team that had the famous R sporto that won) and Spa.

it went to Africa for Edgar Hermann in the 1968 safari - not sure if that was a werks entry or not, or whther the sponsorship was anything more that Porsche getting its agent recognition, but it was at least semi werks. It then went back to the factory to be rebuilt and was one of the 3 factory prepared (entered?) 1968 london-sydney cars again with Hermann

I am unsure about its complete origin but everything I have been told is that the chassis and engine numbers are as I have shown above.

I dont know what qualifies as a T/R but if it has the chassis number as described and the werks put a comp spec S engine into it with enough modifications to enter it in the events described in my view it probably should be called a T/R

It is LHD again after being converted back to original configuration but was RHD from 1969 until recently

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 304678

??

To me it looks like all 3 pictures show a LHD. What am I missing?

It looks to me that the license plate was used on more than 1 car?

Richard

---

Richard

to the best of my knowledge (and the information published on articles on the car and when it has been for sale) it is the same car all along. The first time the license plate was changed was when it was registered in Australia in 1968/9. As shown above it is now LHD again but was RHD from 1969 to recent times

I have checked my records and they show that Edgar Hermann (not the werks) owned the car when he sold it to Alan Hamilton at the end of the London Sydney rally in 1968. Given the history of the factory using competition cars for 2 or 3 outings before selling them to favored clients , I would guess that Hermann bought it after the Marathon de la Route on the Nurburgring in August 1967 and had it as a private entry (but with werks and the distributors support) in Africa.

I have this in its history file that i have put together from various sources "In early 1968, Edgar Herrmann took delivery of the car in Kenya, after it had been prepared by the Porsche Factory Competition Department at Weissach, for the East African Safari that Easter."


and then this

"At the completion of the 1968 East African Safari the car returned to Weissach and together with two other cars were totally re-built for the 12,000 mile London to Sydney Marathon"

and

Tom

I just noted your reference to "pranged LF fender". It isn't; it is a trick of the light - reflection - combined with the fact that both horn grills are absent - on one side to attach tow hook. (the car is maintained immaculately - but then driven in anger as well)

Tim

sorry to hijack the thread
I hope this helps you somewhat anyway

regards

Given that it was a fairly complete car my aim with the restoration will be to preseve as much of the "original" as possible so these following items will go back on "as is" having cleaned up fairly well.

The bonnet badge although clearly not perfect after the attention of the African sun is still good enough in my opinion and reflects the cars age, my only worry is that it may be vulnerable to the UK's winter elements after losing some of its enamel protection but will have to see how it goes.

The horn grilles are not bad at all, again not perfect but they belong to the car so should stay as is.

Final picture is of the manufacturers plate which had been covered in filler/undercoat but has responded well to gentle cleaning....for some reason my delight at getting this back to this condition at the weekend at the expense of cutting the grass was not fully appreciated!

Tim

The car came with RHD H1 headlights, fortunately the previous owner had also purchased a spare pair of the fairly hard to find RHD H1's although they were pretty rough. Together with a NOS outer ring I had I stripped them down, cleaned everything and repainted the metal bowls....I even managed to save the stickers.....bit sad given that nobody will see them but it all becomes a bit addictive!

This has enabled me to restore the cars original lights and give me one mint spare for that inevitable day when one takes a hit.

Although I will never have the skill/time/space/equipment to take on the major work I am really enjoying working on some of the ancillary parts and it really does give you a far better understanding and I suppose a bond with the car.

My next project was the front and rear light units which I will post soon which will just about bring things up to date.

Tim

Both front and rear light units were intact if a little tired and with lenses that had lost most of their colour so I used the excellent advice contained within the EarlyS technical section to replace with some "Bosch" lenses I had obtained. All the units cleaned up pretty well and it is pleasing that the car can retain all of its original lights.

Tim

Looking good!!

They are looking great Tim - it is fantastic that not only can you save them but they come up so well. It must be especially good that you have done them yourself :)

By the way you, or someone earlier in the thread, were asking about the Vin of the Hamilton T/R

After great work by one of the board members, Jeff, who went and personally inspected the car, I can report that the important numbers are:
vin: 118 2 0897
engine 408 1453.

That means that the 4 RHD cars we know about were all produced within a tight time frame:

the first TMD 7F 118 2 0828 (engine ??? )
then 2BRX 118 2 0884 (engine 408 1283)
then Hamilton's 118 2 0897 (engine 408 1453)
then "Africa" 118 2 0912 (engine 408 1479)

Given there is supposed to have been one more it would be interesting to see where it fitted in

It was I that was asking about the VIN of Hamilton's car. I happened to be cruising the Type 901 Register and saw that Jeff had planned a visit to see it. So this morning I got the photos I needed from Jeff, and this evening I get confirmation.
What I find interesting is that half of the 1968 911T that I have in my database are TR's; probably because they are special cars, and the non-TR's were Euro cars that likely did not survive long. Moreover, the majority of the TR's are late in the production from 11820800 up to last VIN 11820928. Also the "S" engines are very late production.

Hugh - Yes really pleased to have saved the lights and done the work myself, given that all the bodywork is original (other than the missing engine lid) I hope to really try and keep/refurbish as much as possible.

Which brings me onto my big issue....THE ARCHES

Having said initially that I intended to return the arches to how they left the factory i.e. flat I presume to match the original 5.5" and 6" wheels which I have, with the aid of some great input and advice, I am now having second thoughts!

We have discovered that the front arches have also had some work done to accommodate wider wheels (arches rolled and we think slightly reprofiled at the front of the arch for turning clearance - I had not engaged my brain because I have all four original wheels after their four replacements were stolen) so to go back to stock would now require work on all four wings and would really be moving away from my aim of as little interference as possible; especially in areas such as the near side rear wing with the engine lid release delete and the bumpers that have been modified slightly to meet the new profile.

Equally having spent more time studying the arches in detail it is clear that they were better done than I first realised and that to some degree were looking "strange" due to the stance of the car and the scrap wheels I currently have it sitting on. The arches have their own character which I now believe it would be a shame to lose; from studying plenty of photos their profile looks just like the ones on the photo Hugh posted of the Hamilton T/R cornering in the "then and now" thread (see below).

I will do some more research and try a few wheel combinations to try and arrive at what it would have been running after the front and rear arch modifications had been done.

The postings to this point have brought the story up to date, I plan to use the summer to try and establish a final detailed specification.

Hugh – with regard to the info on the RHD T/R’s I believe the original engine for “TMD 7F” (chassis 118 2 0828) to be 4081110. I am not too sure where I got that number from however so please don’t take it as definitive. The owner (“RennTyp”) posted on the thread earlier so hopefully he can confirm.

I would just like to take this opportunity to thank a few people in particular who have taken time to give me help and advice - Chris/Tom/Hugh/Jeff/Karim - I am very grateful (you are on the hook now so I will no doubt be coming back for more!) and I apologise if I have left anyone out

AS A QUICK PLUG FOR THE EARLY S REGISTRY AND THE RELATIVELY INSIGNIFICANT MEMBERSHIP FEE, WHERE WOULD YOU GET ADVICE/KNOWLEDGE/PHOTOS/DOCUMENTS ETC. FROM THE FOUR CORNERS OF THE GLOBE FROM PEOPLE WITH NO OTHER AGENDA THAN TO HELP! THE BEST EARLY 911 INVESTMENT I EVER MADE.

Tim

Hello Tim:

Visually, the fender extensions on the Hamilton car are really not too far different from those on your TR.

I can tell you for certain that the look of a fender extension can change very significantly depending on exactly how it is positioned on the quarter and how the welder and panel man execute the installation. A good panel beater can stretch or shrink metal like plastic so if yours are a bit wider it doesn't mean that they are not pukka.

All this is a long way of saying that your TR may just have the proper homologated TR fender extension, but given that they were installed in Nairobi, they just look a bit different from some others.

Given that the rear fender extensions are now being reconsidered, I think it is worth posting page 51 from the 1968 edition of the Sports Purposes manual so that we can consider the appropriate section in the middle of the page headed "Widening rear fenders" and which reads as follows:

"Widening rear fenders
(Homologated for 911 T, 911 L and 911 S)

When adding wider rims it is advisable to extend the wheel cutouts at the rear.

For this purpose there are shields under Part No. 901.325./326.00 which can be fitted in the right and left wheel arches."


So, the modification is homologated, it is recommended by the Race Department when fitting wider rear wheels and the Out of Africa was indeed fitted with wider rear wheels. I think this puts you on very firm ground indeed.

But, what to do about properly filling out the rear wheel wells?

Well, to have OoA's original deep six wheels convincingly fill out the wheel opening, consider mounting them on long studs using a 21mm spacer, exactly how 1968 Sports Purposes manual recommends using a 7R with the factory fender extension.

At Goodwood next year just bring along a copy of the Sports Purposes and Karim's homologation papers for the scrutineers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bantam

Hugh – with regard to the info on the RHD T/R’s I believe the original engine for “TMD 7F” (chassis 118 2 0828) to be 4081110. I am not too sure where I got that number from however so please don’t take it as definitive. The owner (“RennTyp”) posted on the thread earlier so hopefully he can confirm.

---

I have 4081110 listed in my build # thread. I do not have a source listed in my files though, and have not found where I may have gotten the information. It certainly is near the correct engine I would think.

Edit: 4081110 confirmed.

Wow...what a story! Was the car actually sitting on some side street in Uganda for years? Did some local Ugandans "rescue" it, paint it purple, and drive it on the streets in Uganda? That would have been a sight to see.

Thanks for giving us some juicy details. :D

[attach]Attachment 67701

Attachment 67702

Attachment 67703

Attachment 67704[/attach]

When faced with a car like this it is so easy to miss things.....the previous owner had removed a number of items prior to shipping so going through the box of stuff I had found one sun visor with two plastic holders. The sun visor has cleaned up and although a little lacking in stuffing has no splits so will be going back in as is.

Having looked at the shell the point where the two holders were screwed into the roof through the carpet style headlinning are present. Just as interesting are the lack of holes on the passenger side that confirms this particular detail in the "Information Regarding PORSCHE Vehicles Used for Sports Purposes" namely as part of Kit No. 9553....

"The following are deleted:
Ashtray, cigarette lighter, interior light and sun visor for passenger".

I can also confirm that there is also only one interior light with the appropriate wiring on just the drivers side, no ashtray and no cigarette lighter.

Tim

Nothing significant happened over the summer other than cleaning up the door and q/light frames (photos to follow in the next day or two), fortunately after fully stripping down they have all cleaned up well and although not perfect they will meet the goal of the restoration; very time consuming and probably removed my fingerprints in the process!.

The more time I have spent with the car the more I have come to appreciate the importance of "preserving" wherever possible and not to lose the patina acquired over the 40 plus years. My long term ambition with the restoration is to arrive at a finish that would reflect a car that had been well looked after for 40 years rather than an "ex factory" finish. Having said that all mechanicals will be fully fefurbished but areas such as trim/interior etc will be cleaned and wherever possible left original.

One detail that I haven't posted yet is the leather door straps for the lightweight door interiors. These are made up of two pieces of leather sewn together rather than the thicker "one piece" that I have seen on later cars such as RSR's. I hope that with a good clean, restitching where necessary and some leather feed these will be fine.

Tim

Tim:

I really like your approach to this restoration...using the original bits where possible, and not putting replated, powder coated, or new parts in every nook and corner. Having it look like it has been 'well maintained over the last 40 years' is the most desirable restoration philosophy from my view. Part of this comes from my not being able to put in 'new everything' into a restoration ($), but I like seeing a car that has a patina that comes from age and use, and reflects how cars were built and maintained in the day.

The problem for most famous or highly collectible cars is that since they are expected to bring a high price, a collector normally expects the car to be perfect...all shiny, and every surface renewed like new...or better than new (like highly polished 2 stage paint jobs that have so much glare you can hardly see the paint color.)

When I do a re-creation or just a 'clone', I follow the same philosophy...for the same reasons. I want them to look more like a 'real car'.

Decided to have a play with the interior rear view mirror which is in a bit of a sorry state having spent 40 years with the African sun beating down on it, the rear has lost most of its black pigment (see first photo); I had already got hold of another reasonable condition '68 breakaway mirror so nothing lost in seeing what I could do with the original.

(At this point I need to stress that the mirror was removed by myself a couple of months ago to release the small sample of carpet type material used for the headlinning I posted a photo of that was trapped between the two parts, so I am about as sure as you can be that it is the original).

When I came to compare it to the other breakaway mirror I had I noticed they are different. The one I took off the T/R can be totally disassembled with the mirror and a seperate piece of protective glass sitting in a frame that clips onto the rear part (second and third photos).

The other breakaway mirror I have (which I presumed was a '68 because I thought it was a one year only part) is one complete molding that is attached to the arm (see fourth photo) so you are unable to dismantle it.

I have checked the '68 parts catalogue and have confirmed that my chassis number should have the breakaway mirror but I can only find reference to one breakaway mirror. I don't know the exact car the other breakaway mirror came off so could it be from sometihng else or were Porsche using more than one supplier of the "same" part? The anti dazzle lever on the bottom of the mirror off the T/R has "CIPA" on it?

Any info appreciated.

Tim

A few more close ups of the disassembled mirror off the T/R....

The ink stamp on the base of the arm in the fourth photo is also to be found on the base of the other breakaway mirror!

Tim

Hi Tim,

The replacement mirror you found looks original to me (black bouble surface on the back and not BMW elephant hide like look at the back). Furthermore the original Porsche 68 brake away mirror can't be disassembled itself.
There are some more little differences in between the Porsche, BMW and Mercedes break away mirrors which were posted by Michael (70satman) several years ago.

Concerning the mirror which was with the car the arm looks original, the attachment to the mirror looks custom made and the mirror face plate from a different type of car.

Best
Claudius

Claudius

Thanks for your reply.

It does not get any easier does it, I thought my only decision would be to refurbish or not refurbish the mirror that was on the car.....now I need to consider using this mirror versus using the altenative one which seems to be correct for '68 but not original to the car!

Tim

Tim,

I thought I would post a photo of these...they look just like the ones on you car.

I dug these out of storage, these are like new. I was looking for the 906 part number for them and I found it through a friend. They are # 906.332.025.00. They may have come on some 911R cars too, but I'm not sure about that. But it interesting to see them on a T/R.

If you hold one in each hand you can feel the difference...the reinforced Nadella is for sure lighter.

John

Tim

Very very cool By chance do you have any close up pictures at how far around the edge the roof carpeting was wrapped and also a picture of the back window pillars and how they were covered. I trying to figure out if the carpet covered the entire roof section in all one piece or if there was stitching, similar to a coupe headliner on the rear window area?

I think I have finally found an excellent match for the factory carpet you've shown in your pictures. I had planned on just using a lightweight carpet over the roof instead of the headliner. I was just looking for a few more finish detail pictures.

Thanks and great thread!!! Thank you for sharing!

Jon

John & Jon

Sorry I have not responded sooner, school holidays so away for a few days.

John - Thanks for posting the photo of the drive shafts, really interesting, certainly look like the ones on my car. I have not got to the point of stripping down suspension so have no more detail at the moment but I had assumed they were part number 901.332.025.50 which is what is quoted in the "Sports Purposes" document. However having looked at a photo I have of them taken in situ I can see what looks like "901.332.244.00" - not sure if this is just the part number for the specific part rather than the whole assembly? Do yours have any part numbers on them? I am sure mine will need some refurbishment when removed so great to see what the finish should look like.

Jon - I will try and get some detail photos of the rear pillars etc for you. The headlinning had been removed before I got the car but I will see what I can pull together from what remains to try and determine the exact finish. It is all research I need to do so requests such as yours helps me concentrate on specific areas.

Tim

Jon

From studying the car there appears to be glue from where the headlining has been stuck in all areas exactly as on the Hamilton T/R in Australia (the cars are only 15 chassis numbers apart, and that is for all '68 T's, so I think it is fairly safe to assume they were put together around about the same time), given that and the identical treatment of the headlining around the interior break away rear view mirror I think you would be correct to copy the finish of the Hamilton T/R (couple of photos below). It looks like the material was cut for the various areas around the rear wheel arch area, perhaps they used sound deadening parts and/or carpet sets as templates(?) or indeed just general templates they had for cutting interiors?

My car still has the same vinyl trim to the "A" and "B" posts as on the Hamilton car.

If you have a supplier of a good match for the material (photo below shows sample removed from between break away mirror) I would be interested to know more!

Hope the above helps, any more specific questions fire away.

Regards
Tim

Great project!
Keep the patina and original bits as much as you can down to every item and it will priceless since it will keep its soul.

Tim,

I come up with what looks like 3 different part numbers on the axle. So I believe they are for the different parts that make it up. The 906/901 number probably was just put on a paper sticker and then put on the part.

John

Echoing an earlier question: does anyone know more about the lightweight carpet that was used? Is this different from perlon? Is there a source for the same carpet or something close today?

Great thread, amazing stories and knowledge in this group.

Thanks,
Alan

Finally managed to grab a couple of hours to have a look at the bumpers and rear panel. All seem original with the tangerine evident under the awful purple!

The trim holes have been welded up for trim delete although some of the welds have come away over time.

The car had received a ducktail in the late '70's, this had been secured by a pair of the large GHE fasteners (usually used on the front) with the securing brackets still in place, however, there is still evidence of the use of the correct small fasteners on the rear panel with holes welded up higher up the panel although again the welds have come away on one side.

Tim

Cool. What are those little brackets on the license panel? Are you going to restore them with all factory holes intact? I'm not sure if a TR had the holes or not.

Mike

If you mean the rounded brackets, they are for taking the ball of the large GHE rubber fasteners that were fitted when a ducktail was put on the car later in its life, as mentioned in the post they used fronts which have the rounded ball fastening unlike the original small GHE rears which have a straight "T" piece.

I plan to have the holes in the bumpers welded up again because I am pretty sure that is how they left the factory.

Tim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John Straub

Tim,

I thought I would post a photo of these...they look just like the ones on you car.

I dug these out of storage, these are like new. I was looking for the 906 part number for them and I found it through a friend. They are # 906.332.025.00. They may have come on some 911R cars too, but I'm not sure about that. But it interesting to see them on a T/R.

If you hold one in each hand you can feel the difference...the reinforced Nadella is for sure lighter.

John

---

Great find . Any chance you would sell them or have another set/sorce where to score a pair. I need them, reinforced Nadellla's
Thanks KG

Sorry for highjacking a thread.

News?

Pics of small bits restoration?

Parts finds? Parts needs?

More history?

More updates!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flunder

News?

Pics of small bits restoration?

Parts finds? Parts needs?

More history?

More updates!

---

Hello Kettle, what color is that Pot? :D;)

Life has been pretty hectic over the last few months so have had little time to give to the car.....must try harder.

The Scheel drivers seat (probably added to the car in the early '70's, perhaps when the 380mm thick grip steering wheel was put on the car) is currently in Germany with Gerrit at NML-depot for refurbishment. Gerrit said he would take some photos during the work so we can have a before, during and after record.

Porsche in Germany (the archive depatment to be specific) have been particularly unhelpful to date; I don't think I will make any progress there until I go over in person.

Managed to get the phone number of one of the first owners in Kenya through the East African Safari Rally Association. I phoned him this week; not a great conversation due to a delay on the line and his advancing years but he managed to recall a few things. He had another 911 (ex Zasada car apparently as he recalled) around the same time which was in rally spec whilst the T/R was in circuit racing spec for what he termed "clubman" racing. This would make sense given the T/R's standard size fuel tank rather than the 100 litre option, its widened arches for bigger wheels and no evidence of either front or rear stone guards ever being attached (I would have expected these to have been some of the first "Sports Purpose" parts to be added if it had been intended to rally the car in Africa).

Off to Classic Le Mans next week but hopefully when I get back I will be able to get stuck in again and start making some more progress.

Le Mans, see you there, are you going with DDK?

Kind Regards

Hello John

I am going down in my RS replica with a friend but we are helping out with a team that is competing (couple of Lola's not Porsches I am afraid) so camping in with the team...hands on experience but probably not much sleep!

Which team are you with? I will keep a look out :)

Isla Racing, Lola T212 in grid 5 and a Lola T290 in grid 6.

any updates on this fascinating car?

The Scheel drivers seat has been refurbished by Gerrit Blankman at NML depot in Germany. When Gerrit stripped the seat he found that it had been recovered previously with a small coin, in this case a 1973 coin from Ghana, placed in the foam; Gerrit says that he has come across this practice before and it was done for good luck........Gerrit has added a 2010 Euro cent coin on this occassion......double luck I suppose!

Looks great. I'm humming the Toto song Africa now.

Managed to get out to the garage at the weekend and remove the electric panel from the engine bay. Having looked at a number of threads this area seems to have numerous small variances from year to year, thought it may be of interest to post a few detailed photos.

From my limited knowledge it certainly looks like it has had its fuel pump replaced!

I would welcome any input on the panel:

A few more photos:

...and a final group.

For info coil part number is 0 221 102 050

A jappo Pump!
typical for Africa!!

Very Very interesting detail...

I guess I am the resident electrical panel guru so here we go. . . . :)

The plate is SWB
The terminal strip is correct but obviously the middle fin is broken, this is pretty common. This part is NLA from Porsche, but you sometimes see it on Mercedes Fintails and other cars of the era.

Screws on the plate have "K" headmark which I assume is "Kamax", correct.

I can't see whether all the nut plates are there but they look right, there are two sizes, with the metric size stamped into the plate.

Ballast resistor relay has been repainted at some point but it looks correct, it should have 30 on two terminals, 85, 86 and 87 ONLY on the underside. Flag type connectors look right.

Coil bracket is right

Coil is strange, while it has the right diameter, the part number is different, 68 would have used an 026 which has flat terminals, not screws. Best I can tell yours is off a period Ford Transit van, which doesn't make it worthless, it's OK, but the screw-type terminals were used on earlier cars. Hold onto it.

Ballast resistor-- this is actually correct for a 68. Along the way they changed from the rectangular can type to the ceramic type you have, it has a coil of wire inside that provides the resistance. This is very similar to what you see in a BMW 1600 of the period. Part number should be 1 224 509 056. That is a Bosch number of course.

The voltage regulator is a Motorola, some of the later cars used a Motorola alternator, which yours should have. If it were a Bosch Alt you would see the Bosch rectangular can, but yours is correct for the period. Your Motorola alt should have a red label in the middle and a red diode plate, these use a single D+/61 diode instead of a "trio" but there's nothing wrong with them.

The fuel pump, you can tell it's Japanese by the font (that and the fact that it says, "Made in Japan" on the top :)) By 68 you would have had a Hardi pump mounted back there, these are still available. The Japanese pump is interesting, it is a Mitsuba FP-3.

Hope that helps

This is the kind of stuff I like. Nice photos and details.

Thanks from all of us.

Tom

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 304065

I guess I am the resident electrical panel guru so here we go. . . . :)

The fuel pump, you can tell it's Japanese by the font (that and the fact that it says, "Made in Japan" on the top :)) By 68 you would have had a Hardi pump mounted back there, these are still available. The Japanese pump is interesting, it is a Mitsuba FP-3.

Hope that helps

---

I'll say it sounds interesting.....even the translated ad sounds interesting:

"OUR" Mitsuba, the best fuelpump of all.....
simplest installation, buit-in micro-filter, neg. or pos. ground, self-regulating pressure by means of internal bypass.....and it even makes the correct english noises.
For all carburated engines up to 3-liter displacement".

Wonder if they're still manufactured and available.

http://cgi.ebay.com/JAGUAR-E-TYPE-MI...es_CarParts_SM

John

Many thanks for your detailed response, for someone like me who thinks a minor miracle has occured when I switch a light on, your help is invaluable.

A bit more detail building on your post (see photos below):

Ballast resistor relay - has 85,86,87 but also 30/51 - does this make it incorrect?

Coil - photo shows full range of numbers

Ballast resistor - see photo, part number as you quoted

Alternator - see photo, best I could get whilst in situ!

Once again many thanks and obviously if you can add any more info please do.

If you check Claudius reply re. coils you will see that 0221 102 050 is the replacement for 0221 102 006 which is the coil that was used for the 911 up to the first months of 66. In other words, this replacement coil is not correct for your car.

Richard

Richard, thanks for the feedback.

My reading of the reply Claudius submitted was:

0 221 102 026 from 2/66 until 6/68

then superseded by

0 221 102 050

my cars build date is looking likely to be late June or early July 1968 so would this not make the one on the car correct?

The way I read it is that 0221 119 021 is the replacement for 0221 102 026
0221 102 050 the replacement for 0221 102 006

Richard

Good point....I have dropped Claudius a PM, hopefully he will be able to clarify

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 304678

The way I read it is that 0221 119 021 is the replacement for 0221 102 026
0221 102 050 the replacement for 0221 102 006

Richard

---

The attached may help, but the answer is that Bantam's coil should be an 026.

The first one is a clip from the supercede tables-- the early 0 221 102 006 supercedes to an 0 221 119 009. That doesn't really make sense because the 006 we have is a "KW 12 V" not an "A10" but that's what Bosch says. The code for the coils is -- first digit Leistungs Grossen or "gross power output)- an alphanumeric code like A, E, K or J. Second digit is another code, "W" is "mit vorwiderstand" or "with a ballast resistor, just what it says on the coil decal.

Anyway, the 026 supercedes to an 050 coil. The 050, as you can see, was used on the BMW M06 motor, which wasn't called that, it was the M30, used in the 1968 BMW 2500/2800. This was used through October of 1973 and then there's no replacement. I was wrong about it being used in a Ford. However, it also says that the 050 had flat contacts, which is clearly not what Bantam's coil has. Also, Bantam's coil has a 1964 date code, so the mystery continues.

The pic of the four coils lined up shows the difference in screw vs. flat contacts, they are otherwise the same except for the stamps. You can see the stamps in the other two photos.

The coil with the red label is the Bosch replacement 0 221 119 021. You can see that the design is different, it has a lip around the end with the contacts. That photo is out of the Bosch archives. They sent it to me as the only photo they had of our early coils when Ed Mayo and I were trying to reproduce the coil sticker. Unfortunately they didn't have a photo of the "green" sticker.

John your attachment helped a lot

050 is the replacement for 026. So actually he has (at least) a correct replacement coil (and I misunderstood Claudius post).

Richard

Hello,

Tim asked me to carify the Bosch coil numbers. Here we go - as far as I know:

Bosch coil:

0 221 102 006 KW 12V factory equipped 09/64 until 01/66
with resistor Bosch 1 224 509 012 (but most cars had Beru resitors)

0 221 102 026 KW 12V factory equipped 02/66 until end of model year 1968 (last SWB year)
with Bosch resistor 0 224 509 011 02/66 until 10/67
with Bosch resistor 0 224 509 056 11/67 until end of model year 1968 (last SWB year)
many cars of this period had Beru resistors, for the 1968 model year the Europe cars had Bosch resistor 0 224 509 056

Replacement Bosch Coils according Bosch papers:

0 221 102 006 -> 0 221 102 004 -> 0 221 119 031
or
0 221 102 006 -> 0 221 119 009
As you can see the replacement coils for the 0 221 102 006 are irregular in the Bosch papers - these numbers are preliminary!!! DO NOT USE !!!


0 221 102 026 -> 0 221 102 050 -> 0 221 119 021


I will try to get a definite statement about the 006 replacement coils.

Claudius

picture of 0 221 102 026 coils

Claudius, GREAT photos of the coils! This will allow us to finally re-create the coil sticker accurately. You don't happen to have them larger, no?

Claudius

Many thanks for posting the detailed information on the coils.

Just had a good sort through my shed and found some old coils one of which is a 0 221 102 026 (photos below), hopefully it is in working order.

Regards

The car had lost its original 3 point harnesses, however, I managed to get a great set off eBay earlier in the year although they have had the "Britax" logo patches removed but I can live with that given their overall condition. In the late 60's Porsche used Britax harnesses prior to the use of Repa/Autoflug, I believe from the early 70's.

Inspired by the thread Bob Tilton produced on the refurbishment of the harness eye bolts I spent last weekend having a go at mine using Plasti-Dip.....pleased with the results although initial attempt with the spray version of their product did not work so second clean up and back to good old dipping!

Progress has been slow over the last few months due to other commitments although I have managed to refurbish a few more parts; main focus still on research which is proving a protracted exercise!

In the box of loose parts that came with the car was this fire extinguisher bracket. Is this just an aftermarket bracket or was an extinguisher available from the factory in '68, or if period would it more likely be a local dealer addition?

Searches have only found the later RSR extinguisher discussions. Any guidance appreciated.

Interesting detail.

Here are photos of the extinguisher and bracket found in 9110301059, a '70 European-model 'S,' reputed Austrian-delivery. The supplier of this bottle is Vulkan and, apparently, they're still around (http://www.vulkan-werk.de/hauptframeE.htm). There's nothing on the CoA, but, since all the markings are in German, and the car has been in the US since the early 70s, I'm assuming that the bottle was fitted before it came here.

I can't quite make out any supplier names on the bottles in the other photos but, from the colors/labeling and the handles, these could be from the same supplier?

As for your bracket, I'd suggest . . .
a) . . . contacting Vulkan, show them your picture --- see if anyone there can identify it
b) . . . start looking up old German-language auto publications from the period and researching advertisers of fire-suppression equipment --- how many could there be?

I assumed that my set-up was Dealer-installed. Seeing the bracket and bottle in Raj's 914 photo --- mine looks very similar.

Rick Kreiskott

Vulkan were also the manufacturer of the tyre-inflation bottles Factory-supplied with early 2.7 RS Carreras (Vulkan used to be in Stuttgart).

Raj/Rick/Andy

Many thanks for your replies, certainly looks like Vulkan is a good place to start.....from looking at my bracket compared to the picture Rick posted (and the one in the 914/6 GT) mine would have been one of the round bottom type extinguishers to sit in the lower hoop.......great where these projects take you.....(ah yes, the good old '68 round bottom Vulkan!!!!).

HI Tim

I have heard nothing from up in Africa yet will ask again.

Leon

This is all very interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing.

John

Are these even propellant-charged? The piston-type push-handle reminds me of the old hand-held bug-sprayers from the 40s and 50s.

Here's a Gloria on dispaly in a '52 356, as seen up at Morro Bay, back in May . . . so I'm gonna guess that this style of Gloria is way too old for a 911.

Rick Kreiskott

Removed the roll bar today (901.803.021.21), a few photos:

Part numbers 901.803.231.21 & 901.803.232.21

Although a few bumps from the African terrain, not too bad.

I like bumps! . . . and dings . . . dents, scratches, dirt . . . ;)

Rick Kreiskott

Very nice pan.First time ever to see the detail of the roll bar bottom before it is bolted to the roll bar plates! Nice welds compared to many ive seen on the plates to the body...Cliff

When I started this thread about 18 months ago one of the first pictures I posted was of the paint tag which although in place had suffered a little in the hands of previous owners.

I finally managed to spend a little time on it trying to unearth as much as I could, whilst not perfect all the information is now visible so probably the correct point to stop digging! From the code it can be seen that the paint was Leasonal.

On the Kardex the paint code is quoted as "blutorange 6809 B", Dave said that he thought the "B" might indicate the interior colour i.e. black which would be correct, can anyone confirm this is what the "B" stands for?

somebody posted this on FB a few days ago. I didn't know if you would find it interesting/useful.

Yes I have seen this, unfortunately this and one from a slightly different angle are the only pictures I have found of a "Gordon C.R Crow" sponsored car.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bantam

. . . On the Kardex the paint code is quoted as "blutorange 6809 B", Dave said that he thought the "B" might indicate the interior colour i.e. black which would be correct, can anyone confirm this is what the "B" stands for?

---

Well, the German word for 'black' is schwartz . . . so unless Porsche went to English nomenclature on any of their colors . . .

Rick Kreiskott

Rick, of course you are correct, I would blame excess alcohol for the New Year celebrations.....but I hadn't started when I posted!

I have now worked out that the Polsterung section on the Kardex is Upholstery, this says "Kunstl.schwarz" which is obviously the black you highlighted and is correct for the car, can't seem to find a translation for "Kunstl." , might it be an abbreviation given the "." after the word which may make it "Kunstlich" - "artificial" or maybe "Kunst-faser" - "synthetic fibre" depending how abbreviations are shown in German?

This still leaves the question of the "B" after the 6809 paint code on the Kardex; I am sure I saw a recent thread that had a copy of a Kardex posted that also showed this "B" but unable to find it at the moment!

kunstleder = leatherette

Richard

Thanks Richard

I did a quick look through my Kardex folder. I do not claim that B means black as such. These codes in the exterior color box are a little confusing, but do seem to be consistent; these codes I associate with interior color this way:
A <> rot
B <> schwarz
B/P <> schwarz/pepita
C <> braun
D <> beige
There should also be blue and green.

B/C = cords/ schwarz
D/C = cords / beige
D/P = braun / pepita (probably an error on the cardex of 303498)

BTW the letters apply for leatherette and leather

Richard

Thanks Richard. I agree that they do apply for both leather and leatherette. I did not see cords listed in my files, so that is most useful. I did see a few occasions where B/P was listed without pepita specified, but the evidence suggests that it should have been.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bantam

. . . This still leaves the question of the "B" after the 6809 paint code on the Kardex; I am sure I saw a recent thread that had a copy of a Kardex posted that also showed this "B" but unable to find it at the moment!

---

Hey, Tim . . .

Well, I don't know much about Kardexes, but Porsche appended letters to the paint codes on the paint tags on their cars, indicating the source of the paint --- L = Lesonal, G = Glasurit, H = Herberts.

Could the 'B' on the Kardex be referring to another paint supplier?

Rick Kreiskott

I've started a new thread to highlight this information. Examples found there.
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...or-color-codes

Thanks all for the feedback on the paint codes, I now understand the "L" on the paint tag (Leasonal) compared to the "B" on the Kardex.....interestingly the one original sports seat in the car was black vinyl bolsters with papita (houndstooth) centres!

Fortunately some of the original lightweight carpet survived together with the front luggage compartment pieces, I have yet to attempt to clean them! The cabin carpet material is approximatley half the thickness/weight of the luggage compartment (standard?) material and as can be seen from the final comparison picture, is considerably darker

Hey, Tim . . . .

Really cool stuff. Can you maybe take some close-up pictures of the interior carpet, top and back?

Rick Kreiskott

Tim, I had some pretty filthy perlon in my 914 which was boarderline being tossed and replaced. On a lark, I decided to throw it in the washing machine after spot treating the worst areas with Shout and then detergent on regular cycle - cold wash/cold rinse. I was amazed when it came out clean and looking like new. I hung it to dry.

If you are daring you can try a small piece on gentle and see how it works and then if sucessful move up to regular.

Close up pictures as requested, unfortunately due to the artificial light not easy to get a good representation but here goes:

Pic 1: Cabin lightweight carpet - top
Pic 2: Cabin lightweight carpet - underside showing the dry glue
Pic 3: Cabin lightweight carpet - close up
Pic 4: Comparison - cabin lightweight (left) v luggage compartment

....in looking at the pictures remember there has been no cleaning attempted so you will be seeing an element of african dust/grass/dirt!


RickS - Thanks for the tips on cleaning......real danger with the risk of damaging the carpet and being caught showing too much interest in the washing machine.....seriously thanks for the advice, when we get into the better weather in the UK so I can let it dry slowly I will give it a go.

Thank you, Tim.

Wonderful stuff . . . .

Rick Kreiskott

My focus over recent weeks has been to clean and save as much as possible, still a few shelves full to go at but the latest items to work on have been the door caps. Firstly I had to re glue a considerable amount of it before cleaning the vinyl which came up really well and had a great "worn in" look to it being virtually smooth at the upper most part.

I had a set of excellent condition caps from another car which originally I thought I might want to use; although these will now not be required it was interesting to compare differences between the two sets. I don't know what car they came from so not sure if the differences are common to a model year or my particular car. The basic differences are that the caps from the TR turn up along the leading edge nearest to the door windows compared to the other set that turn downwards to remove the sharper edge. In addition the TR caps have no brackets on the underside around the door knob hole and at the rear end of the cap resulting in them being approximately 10% lighter.

Would be interested to know if the type of cap on the TR was specific to a particular model/year(s)?

Pics below show:
1. TR caps before cleaning
2 & 3. TR caps after cleaning
4. Comparison with other set showing no brackets (TR caps centre)
5. Comparison with other set showing the different treatment of the top edge (TR caps centre), hopefully you can make out how the centre pair turn up

Another interesting detail (thanks Chris for drawing to my attention) is the modification to the rear part of the internal roof.

Because the roof had lightweight carpet stuck directly onto it rather than the usual "suspended" headlinning, the vent metal work at the rear was simplified and a simple plate used to blank off the rear vent holes above the rear window.

The second picture is of a 1968T for comparison.

Wow..such little details!

John

Whilst the rally kit used simple rain shields for the Weber carbs in competition, for road use the car would be fitted with the standard air box.

The one on the car had fallen victim to the rather careless brown/purple respray the car received in Uganda. Using a solvent thinners I was able to remove the over spray whilst maintaining the original factory satin black paint......although not perfect I prefer to keep the original factory finish which has a lovely patina to it. All the brown/purple was removed, the slightly different colours that remain are just where the original paint has become thinner.

The before pictures:

Pictures after clean up:

Note: I have retained the "USE........................ A.E.30" on the nicely aged tape on the right hand side of the unit.

Good work Tim.

I am going to enjoy this thread.

Recent efforts have been focused on the rest of the door interiors. Having rescued the original door caps I was determined to maintain the original vinyl lightweight door cards and leather pull straps.

Following a good clean the passenger door card was fine however the drivers door had a bit of vinyl missing and more seriously some of the hardboard had been lost whilst what remained had broken in a number of areas; given that the drivers door panel gets more wear this was not surprising.

Because of the damage and wear to the vinyl I decided to use marine ply for the replacement backing to give a little extra rigidity. Having removed the vinyl it was a case of cutting out a new panel and then trial fitting/trimming bit by bit until a good fit was achieved. Where vinyl would be missing I sprayed the board black to minimise the impact of these areas and then reattached the vinyl using glue and clamps (and a few choice words) until a good fit was achieved.

These were still intact although the metal ends had surface corrosion

The leather straps responded well to a good clean and a few applications of a leather feed, whilst not perfect I quite like the age shown in the first picture. The metal ends were cleaned up with a dremel; in the final picture you can see the plastic collars that go in prior to being fastened to the door release mechanisms.

Tim, love your approach here. Restoring the original parts is way better than getting repro stuff, even if the original stuff has some "patina". An old car should be like an old baseball glove or an old pair of Levis, the character should show through and it should not be perfect.

That's not to say I don't appreciate perfect restorations....they are very nice but not my cup of tea.

Can't wait to see more of this restoration process :D

I was delighted to receive an email a couple of weeks ago from someone who has asked a contact in Kenya to try and do some research on the car, however, even their initial feedback was great in that it confirmed knowledge of the first owner Peter Sargentson and confirmed that the car competed at the Nairobi (Embakasi) circuit....

http://www.etracksonline.co.uk/Afric.../embakasi.html

...and also believed to have raced at the Nakuru circuit...

http://www.etracksonline.co.uk/Africa/Kenya/nakuru.html

...I will post a request for information in the general section but obviously if anyone has any information/pictures of events at these circuits, particularly between mid '68 and the early '70's then I would be delighted to hear.

They also think that the East African Porsche agent Gordon C. R. Crow who ordered the car from the factory operated from the petrol station in Langata which is now run by rally driver Ian Duncan.

Thought I should update this thread as we approach the year end.

Business and family commitments have limited time on the project over the last few months however I have continued to clean up a few parts myself, currently have some of the larger parts with Alan Drayson at Canford Classics whilst research continues slowly!

Having established that the car was involved in circuit racing in Kenya in the late '60's/early '70's I am planning a visit to the British Library in the New Year to look through their collection of Kenyan newspaper titles for the period; whilst it would be great to turn up something specific to the car I am realistic that this may not be possible, it will still be interesting to just gain a better understanding of life in Kenya around this period and the environment the car was operating in.

The wheels and the passenger Recaro Sports seat are currently with Alan Drayson who also arranged for North Hollywood to refurbish the gauges. Given that the aim is to retain as much patina as possible NH did a great job in retaining the original face cards that had yellowed nicely in 40 years of African sun whilst undertaking the refurbishment

One area that I think demonstrates the approach I am trying to take with the car is on small details such as the front compartment catch, whilst some items will need total striping and replating etc, I am trying to just invest time in cleaning to retain the orignial factory finish wherever possible

Similar approach here, just careful clean and lubrication

(If anyone needs any more detail photos of some of these parts just ask, I have plenty more!)

Love what your doing...keep the patina.

John

Well, you know how I feel about patina. Great stuff Tim.

your car is very special... I love all the details and the way you are restoring it

congratulations

:)

Giovanni

Looks good. You already know this probably, but be very careful with what you clean with, you don't want to remove either the original paint or the original plating on the parts.