Please help me with my 1971 911 S Targa VIN # Mystery

Hi,

I was recommended on the Pelican forum to post here too. I was hoping someone could help me solve my VIN# mystery. I've just bought a 911 S Targa, believed to be a 1971 model year.

The sad thing is that the car earlier in it's life got a new VIN# in Germany, beginning with "TP" which mean "Techniche Prüfstelle". In english I guess it mean "technical testing facility". Besides the TP number, that is listed in the registration documents, I have two different numbers on the VIN# plate above the gas tank.

The old VIN# is semi-visible, and it is for a 1971 S Targa, and the car has S badging, S tacho, S oil system, but an E motor. Can't find the paint plate in door pillar either.

The really strange part is that the production number (located near the ash tray) is 0130003, and that is exactly what is stamped just above the "original" VIN#. The 0130003 stamped has the original Porsche font, with the star before and after. I am absolutely sure, I have looked at hundreds of Porsche VIN# and this is absolutely the way Porsche stamped the VIN#. Unfortunately I can't get it to show on a picture, since it has been painted.

The production number feels strange, the other ones I've seen starts with the number 1, but I am no expert on that.

There has been no welding anywhere near the VIN# plate (above the gas tank) or near the production number. The car has the same color everywhere, underneath the usual Guards Red overspray. The car can't have been welded together from two different cars, I would have seen that.

Anyone that please could help me to understand what has happened to the car? My main questions are:

1. Why would Porsche re-stamp the VIN#?
2. Can I find the original 911131XXXX VIN# somewhere else?
3. Why should TP in Germany dedicate it a new VIN#? Maybe someone from Germany can answer....
4. How can I prove it really is a 911 S Targa?

All this happened to the car before 1985.

Just to clarify; I haven't been fooled, I was aware of the history and paid for a car with these problems.

All ideas of opinions would be very appreciated!



Thanks,

Johan
__________________

I hope I got your infos right:

1
If the TP number is registered in (german) papers and not stamped in the car, this means most likely just the german motor vehicle control i.e "Technische Prüfstelle" i.e MOT i.e. DMV.
Its usually called TUV but other TP did the service too. Both codes mean the car passed the mandatory safety check-up to be driven on the road. This check-up was usually renewed. Therefore this would not be a factory VIN but an ordinary number from a registration document printed by a state controlled TP.

2
If you do have two VIN's stamped in your car/trunk, things get difficult but if you found the production No. by removing the ashtray/knee pad, this number is most likely the original No. of this car.
As I recall, the ashtray/knee pad code is slightly shorter than the front area VIN plate code.
I recall there can be sometimes found a third one, a handwritten chalk-code right under the front windshield/dashboard area.

3
If the car was resprayed, infos got lost. Otherwise 2.2l cars had wheel areas, engine compartment and underside carriage sprayed in flat black. (actually a combination of several materials, see other posts).

4
Last but not least, if it happened "before 1985" this could also mean it maybe "happened" later than 1971.


(edited)

And it will be much clearer, please do post photos of all the things that will show up in photos and that you've mentioned. Thanks.

-Allen-

The number under the knee pad will be a production number, only slightly related to the VIN. All coupes will have one series in ascending # as they were produced, and all targas will have another series. These series are independant of T, E or S models. The 0130003 is most unusual, but very low; I'll dig into that.
Remove the top dash pad, and see if there are crayon numbers on the left side of the dash.

This may be of interest

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ash+vin+number


Regards
Mike

Johan,

Can you post a photo of the Aluminum VIN tag? I am curious if it is the original one to the car or a later verison that was restamped.

Here is a photo of the production # that you posted on Pelican.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1285964908.jpg

Is it possible that this car has been re-shelled at a very early stage with a factory supplied spare body shell?

I understand that it was possible to buy a complete spare "body in white" early on. Maybe the "013 0003" stands for something like 0 (spare parts shell) 1 (Targa) 3 (1973?) 0003 (third one supplied).

Certainly a regular production number would start with a 1 for 911 and then 0 for coupe/1 for Targa, then year number and then 4 serial numbers. Also I have a memory, but can't locate the evidence, that 912 production numbers start with a 2 rather than a 1.

Later on when the factory was supplying bare body shells to Kremer to make K3 935's the body shells were numbered in a similar way - ie 009 0001, (for 1979 body shell for Joest) or 000 0009 (1980 body shell for Dick Barbour)

So it is possible that this is a re-shelled car with a full official and numbered spare parts shell but with both the spare parts number (production number) and the original chassis number stamped in next to the fuel tank to show it was re-shelled. this may explain the TP papers as well - with the car having to re-pass a roadworthy check when re-shelled.

I repeat this is speculation but it does fit some of the facts in the case.

Thanks guys, you are most helpful!

Karim, the TP number is actually stamped in the car, or stamped on a aluminum plate riveted to the body. That number is now the car VIN# in Sweden, meaning the title shows that number. I have understood that it is uncommon but still happens in Germany.

There is no original documentation left, since they scrap the import documentation efter 7 years. I'm sure there was way more information with those, since it's not easy to register a car in Sweden, and without the original VIN# it is almost impossible.

There is no aluminum VIN# on the hood lock plate, since it converted to G model.

Brian, thanks for moving the picture here. Looking at the thread Mike linked to, the font on the numbers are the same, however, my numbers is stamped farther to the left. I went out to have a look at the car, and there where no sign of numbers on the front or the back of the panel. Or is the position changed since that was a RHD car?

Dave, I'll reply to your email separately.


Thanks,

Johan

Hugh, thanks, you answered while I was writing. That might be a plausible explanation. Anyone that could confirm? It would be great if someone else recognizes this, or have a car that underwent the same procedure.


Johan

Johan

is the shell a G series shell or could it be a "SC" "D" series from 1983, which I suspect would not look too different?

The reason is that bare coupe shells supplied to race teams in 1983 to build up cars had chassis numbers 003 xxxx rather than the WPO ZZZ 91 etc number of production shells. Starkey has chassis 003 0009 documented as a shell supplied to Charles Ivey racing and built up as a group B turbo for Le mans in 1983.

If you don't have history before 1985 it is also possible that the 3 in the chassis number signifies 1983.

It is likely that such a shell would be fully galvanised - which may be a tell tale as to its age.

I would have thought that the factory could provide a history of chassis number 013 0003 if the right person is asked.

Hugh, I was thinking the same thing. But, who would be the right person? I'll start by examining the barely visible original VIN# to see if paint and options match what I have.

I think you interpreting the 013... where 1 as Targa and 3 as 1973 makes sense. If the car was in a bad accident, it was still valuable enough in 1973 to justify a re-shelling. In 1983 no insurance company would have taken that cost, so the car would have been scrapped.

And, it is not galvanised, it had rust in all the usual early spots before the PO repaired it. It is not G model shell, it has the two battery boxes and all the other caracteristics. The front lock panel was changed to a G model, that's all.

Still, there has to be a bunch of other cars that underwent the same thing, at least 0130001 and 0130002. Their stories would make a huge difference for me. If someone has info you don't want to disclose on an open forum, please please feel free to send me an email instead, johan at autopower dot se.

Could someone pleae share some information about the procedures around re-shelling at the Porsche factory?


Thanks,

Johan

Johan

Here the "right person" would be at the local Porsche distributor for Australia who handles the COA's etc. Our guys are very helpful and can tap into the factory files easily. I suspect your local distributor would be the place to start but it might be a bit more involved than an ordinary COA given the number. If you get someone who is interested and or helpful you may be surprised at how much information you can get provided you can show proof of ownership.

I believe that the production # can be decoded as follows:
format XYZabcd
X=0 replacement body
X=1 production body
Y=0 coupe
Y=1 targa
Y=2 Karmann coupe
Y=3 Karmann 914/6 targa
Z= last digit of model year beginning 1969
Z=9 1969
Z=0 1970
Z=1 1971 and so forth
abcd is the sequence #

Thus 0130003 decodes as the third replacement targa body in 1973.

As far as I can tell the person asking has not provided a photo of the under the hood stamping. But I think he stated that there is both the orig. vin & the number in question stamped there with the 0130003 number above the correct vin. And both numbers have asterisk's on each side.

Regarding the under the dash number shown, it is the correct factory font (not easy to attain) . And I believe he says the under the hood stampings are similar correct font (with the addition of asterisk's / * on either side).

Since I looked into this and around fairly hard a few years ago. This is what I can tell you from digging then, and from keeping my eyes open for anything related since.

This 7 digit layout is what the factory used when manufacturing & selling complete bodies (for replacement or 'spare' - to built up/ie: normally race teams).

But in regards to having the original VIN along with the replacement / spare body number.

I believe when the factory did the reassembly , that is when you find both numbers. On all the 'spare' bodies that were built by various race teams ie: Kremer, Charles Ivey, Holbert , etc...

Those just have the 7 digit number.

Also on a 'spare' body or replacement body , there will be NO PRODUCTION NUMBER (it is not built in normal car production sequence).

I have not examined the under the dash stamping of any 'spare' / built by race teams bodies (I use the term 'spare' in this reference but obviously a team could be replacing a body on a damaged car also OR starting from scratch using other parts in their possession as far as the other parts required for a complete car. But I have been told by owners that only the 0XX 00XX number is there.

But I have seen under the dash stampings on 'replacement' body street cars (and i'm using the 'replacement' term here in refering to Porsche FACTORY rebuilt cars). I have only examined 1974 or later 'replacement' bodies. But they seem to have ended up being stamped both ways under the dash : either with just the 7 digit number , OR with BOTH the original VIN & the 7 digit number.

However normally, wether one set of numbers under the dash or two. The norm is asterisk's (*) are stamped on both sides of the number set/s also , as under the hood.

On this particular car (013 0003) since it is the correct font. I'm assuming that the asterisks were just left off and it's a geniune Porsche stamping (remember : never say never or always, mistakes / mishaps can & did happen. Besides who's going to go stamp that type of number that is already known to correlate to Porsche's practices other than Porsche. Besides that particular font not being easy to get. Someone trying to phony something would be stamping the original Production number under the dash & ONLY the original VIN under the hood).

One further note regarding the 7 digit number scheme. I have seen recorded (on lists only mind you) some 8 digit numbers as the ID numbers on some Porsche 911/930 based race cars. But since the 'spare' / 'replacement' body production was small (never reaching 100 as far as I know). AND all the recorded 8 digit race ID's , on various race event / race car records lists. Have been a number not only NOT high enough a number to require a 5 digit second grouping. But not even high enough a number to require the normal 4 digit grouping (The second group means the unit number of how many that were produced that year). SO i'm assuming that any 8 digit Porsche race car ID that you see chronocled on a list. Is actually a mistype/mistake with an extra 0 ?? It's possible that for some reason on race ('spare') bodies the numbering system expanded to became 8 digits after the 9th unit (as I see alot of 8 digit Porsche 911/930 based chassis numbers recorded) . But on street (seemingly Factory rebuild/bodies which were a replacement body for a street car with work done at the factory) , when a unit is above # 9 . They seem to remain 7 digits. An example: 007 0020 (a redone 1974 Carrera 2.7 / ROW). So the 8 vs. the 7 digit numbers ??? All I can say is the only 8 digit numbers I've seen are recorded for dedicated race cars. But again, I have never seen an 8 digit stamping in the flesh.

The street Factory reassembled cars I have seen, normally also have their original aluminum ID tags also under the hood (bonnet). But if one was damaged beyond use or gone before arriving for repair . Would Porsche make up a new one ? Who Knows?

Also from my research, I believe that in the 70's even Factory dealerships did not only NOT have the asterisk's stamp (normally) . They did not even have the correct number font stamps for chassis. Normally they only had the engine/trans number type font stamps. These happen to be the same font stamps that had been used prior on the 1969 model year for chassis stamps also. 1968 & earlier Chassis stamps have a 3rd font.

I do not think (as HughH stated) that in the 7 digit numbering system there is a differiation between decades. You would need to examine details on the body to see what series of body it is. This would then let you figure out wether it was a 73 vs. 83 replacement/spare body , as in this case with 013 0003. Of course you would have to be sure the spot you were examining had not been repaired yet again , and have had the area your examining's pieces replaced with later style pieces.

As to whether a car which was rebodied / reassembled at a Factory dealership would have one or both type stamps ?? From what i can tell . As I stated , I do not believe most would have the proper stamps. Would the Factory pre-stamp the replacement body for the dealership with the VIN in the correct stamp with asterisks along with the 7 digit number ?? I don't know. But I do not believe so. I have seen cars which have been front clipped by Porsche Factory dealerships in Europe during the 70's. Every one I have examined had been restamped with the engine/trans font stamps by the dealerships. Most without the asterisk's - one with.

Hopefully most/some of you are able to digest my explanation. This is what the system seems to be as far as I have been able to determine. Unless you are hooked into someone who's been around the factory for a good amount of time . Was familiar with whatever issue your researching from their particular duties there . And was around in the period of what your researching , or researched it themselves at a later date (AND feels like detailing things for you - which is rare). All you have to go by is examining what you can find out in the world. I'm just throwing out what I have noticed concerning it. Take it and chew on it , look around and see what you can come up with.

Here's an example of a rebodied 1977 Carrera 3.0 from France (this one , depending on whether that 3rd digit is an 8 or a 3 , could be a little odd. I'm assuming it is actually an 8 , even though it looks somewhat like a 3 . As in this type of number sequence, as guessed I think correctly by HughH above. I believe as with his quess, that the 3rd digit stands for the year the body was produced. The last digit/s are the number of the unit produced that year. So that is why i'm assuming it's actually an 8. Unfortunately on the under the dash stamp photo , the flash/shading makes it hard to see. Maybe someone can photoshop it , so that it's discernable. All of these body type numbers I've seen had as a 3rd digit, a number higher than the year of the body it was replacing , or the same. As in the same or a following chronological year, which makes sense) . I had a couple other examples but I lost them after a computer needed to have the operating system reinstalled. I seem to not have gotten all my files transfered during the process. The lesson , back up all important saved files on external storage always :

Wow, cool photo showing the replacement body number.

All I can add are the photos of the RS 0068 I aquired years ago from a seller in Japan. I don't know what to make of the VIN stampings on this car but it may fit the scenerio you guys are talking about.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1286076183.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1286076253.jpg

Brian
i don't want to hijack this thread too much but I have seen photos of other strange Vin stampings on RS's that I don't understand - but don't look like replacement shell numbers either. Here is one on RS #0037 when it was for sale in France in 2007.

I think I have at least one other similar one in my database - and from memory it is a French one as well.

I know Australian cars have an extra aluminum plate riveted on the floor near the Vin and other countries have similar things but this looks different again. Also it is not a good photo so the detail is hard to make out.

Wow, that is great information! This is actually better than I would have hoped for.

Peekaboo; that was great information. I have sent you an email with more information. I have a few clarifications, which actually concur with your findings:

First, there is the asterics before and after the replacement body number, NOT on the VIN# stamped below. This would indicate that the dealership got the body stamped with the replacement number from the factory, and that the dealership then stamped the actual VIN# underneath. The font used for the original VIN# is NOT the original Porsche font.

Second, this is absolutely a F model body. The only thing changed is the hood lock panel, and I still have the original one left. On the picture you provided, I'm actually leaning towards that being a "3", meaning it was re-shelled in 1983 according to Hugh's findings. Then the sequence would re-start in 1980, which makes sense to me.

Third, there is no aluminum VIN tag. You could be right, it might have been damaged beyond repair. Or, I'm speculating that is depending on the car getting a TPxxxxx VIN# in the title, meaning the german authorities didn't accept the old VIN# nor the replacement body number as the VIN# put in the title. Again speculating, the german TÜV has always been very hard, and they might not have accepted using the original VIN# after a re-shell.

Fryardds; thanks for sharing. That would definately fit into the scenario, since the x-ing of the replacement body number could be common practise in some countries. Someone have tentatively tried to ruin my numbers too, and the purpose could be not to distract from the VIN# in the title. That statement sounded better in Swedish, not sure if it makes sense in English....:)

Hugh, no problem with hi-jacking. It's really hard to see, but it looks like it says 911 SC-F, and the asterics looks more like stars to me. Not sure what it means though.



So, in the light of this information; What do you think of the value of my car? Say that a nice driver 1971 911 S Targa is worth $55k, how much less would my car be worth?


Thanks,

Johan

IMHO don't think that the rebody would have a great effect on value. The rebody is a little unusual, like a rare color, and may add enough back to balance out it's non-originality. I'd say it is less detrimental than major panel replacement.

Here is an example of a 914/6 replacement body VIN:

Interesting to see some more pics. This is a topic that previously had not seemed to have been delved into much anywhere online.

In viewing those two 73 RS stamps. To me , since we see the 7 digit spare/replacement body type no. present (mostly obliterated but I would believe that is it) on 0068 . It seems then that 360 0068 is a complete factory built replacement body. And I believe 360 0037 has probably had a front clip replaced. As to who did the work on either , that puzzles me - as even though the asterisk's do not seem to be present next to VIN's. It seems to be the correct chassis font on both. Since both the photo's of 0068 & 0037 are not very good & one with even more paint filled in over the numbers than original (remember Factory is Black here). It's very hard to distingish if the 6 & O's are the wider more rounded Eng. stamp font. or the narrower flat sided Chassis font , but they seem to be the narrow. It's lucky in that they are 1973's , thus it's certain . The easiest number to distinguish between the 2 font types is the numeral no. 3 . You can see that on both car's the numeral 3 is the round top 3 , with the engine stamp font numeral 3 is a flat top. That is why on other years (post 1969) unless the number has a 3 in it. You need a really good view of any stamping.

So we're left with 2 scenario's , either they were done at the Factory and for some reason did not get the asterisk's stamped next to the original VIN (never say never). OR the Dealerships or Factory Authorized Service Partners got the proper stamps . As to who stamped the 911 SC-F on 0037 , and it being there period ? (Obviously it's 911SC - F : RS2.7 - F series, but why? ) . That would make me lean towards it being done at the same time as the VIN , thus most likely away from the factory as I do not think they would stamp that. But again in reality you can never be 100% certain unless you speak to someone who was there ,or have their written accounts. And there is the chance that a Countrie's Registration Authorities could add something. But I do not think it would be something like that. In that case a Country's Governmental Authority Reg. system would add a complete different no. , or digits to the original VIN. Also, I cannot see if those are asterisk's next to the 911 SC - F. And once again, it is not out of the realm of possibility that the asterisk stamp could make it outside the factory . But I think it was uncommon.

If anyone is ever dealing with this sort of thing ,you might want to check front floor pans . Sometimes when cars are restamped (away from factory - Dealer ? Reg. Authorities ? I'm not sure which) things can be stamped there also.

On the photo of 0068, do I see the numeral 3 in the 7 digit replacement no. in place no. 3 (so meaning produced in 1973) ? On things like this you really need to remove all paint and look with a high powered magnifying glass. Then , you should be able to make out what was originally there with close study.

I have attached some color reversed photo's of both.

In thinking about strange VIN Stampings , other ID type stampings, and strange locations for VIN / ID stampings.

I remembered this one & went and dug it out.

What is that in the lower righthand corner - pretty strange no ?

RS 360 0399

Hi,

I just wanted to share a pic of the TP VIN# on my car:

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/v...e/DSC05618.jpg

I will try and get a good picture of the VIN#'s in a few days and post it here.


Thanks,

Johan

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by peekaboo

In thinking about strange VIN Stampings , other ID type stampings, and strange locations for VIN / ID stampings.

I remembered this one & went and dug it out.

What is that in the lower righthand corner - pretty strange no ?

RS 360 0399

---

I saw some photos had diappeared from this thread . So I thought I would post it again. I still would like to know about what seems to be a VIN stamp....on the rear of RS 360 0399 . I have never seen another 911/912 with a VIN stamped in this location ! It could be a tag, but for some reason , I do not think so.

AND the photo (showing what looked to be the VIN stamped into the rear latch panel / passenger side) is no longer on the website that had it . Yet the two other photos of three are still there :

http://www.wunscholdtimer.de/deutsch...id/76/back/18/

Seems like it was removed , it was there prior. I'm glad I saved it.

Does anyone know this car. To get a closer look at whatever that is stamped on the passenger side rear latch panel. It really seems to be the VIN , if you download and enlarge...it seems to start 911.

VERY strange :

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by peekaboo

RS 360 0399 . I have never seen another 911/912 with a VIN stamped in this location ! It could be a tag, but for some reason , I do not think so. Does anyone know this car.

---

The site says the RS was initially from Sweden.
BTW, on some cars swiss importer amag mounted metal tags on the same rear location (or as a decal in front compartment).

Thanks Karim - I always appreciate the help.

I had not noticed you answered this some time ago.....alot always on my mind. Yes , Milou mentioned that . But on the example he displayed (his very early car... 1965 , I believe) it was on the other side. You've seen AMAG tags on passenger rear in this spot also ? (actually that makes sense. It does not need to necessarily always be one side specific . One person might chose one side ...a differant person the other ??). And even thou AMAG included their name. Maybe the Swedish importer (was there one ?) did not include their name / initials . Although you think they would if it was their specific tag.

This issue is not super important to me to figure out 100% for certain. I just found it odd/interesting.

I would give my contribution to this topic. Here there are the chassis and "production" number of my october 1971 911S 2.4 Coupè. I checked them with Porsche, they told me that they are matching numbers:

Attachment 247839

Attachment 247838

This was originally an Italian delivery. Notice the 'M' stamped next to the 'E' program letter. Interesting that Porsche would confirm a match between the VIN and production #. I didn't realize they were doing that for customers now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FGS

. . . there are the chassis and "production" number of my october 1971 911S 2.4 Coupè . . .

---

I'm sure you know this but --- your VIN is for a '72, right?

. . . same as the 'E' program

. . . and the 2.4

. . . and the 3rd digit of your production number?


Taken together, yours looks to be the 671st 911 built for MY72

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fryardds

This was originally an Italian delivery. Notice the 'M' stamped next to the 'E' program letter. Interesting that Porsche would confirm a match between the VIN and production #. I didn't realize they were doing that for customers now.

---

Correct. It's an Italian delivery car, and it's still in Italy. So "M" means italian delivery?

Porsche does this check, at least here in Europe. They have been kind, they gave me this info at the telephone, confirming the original color as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LongRanger

I'm sure you know this but --- your VIN is for a '72, right?

. . . same as the 'E' program

. . . and the 2.4

. . . and the 3rd digit of your production number?


Taken together, yours looks to be the 671st 911 built for MY72

---

"2" is for model year, not for the production year. Are you sure that "0671" is simply the body sequential number?

However, this is a good case study.

1020671
Yes, the 2 is the model year for the body.
671 is the sequential build # for the coupe body
112xxxx would be for the Targa bodies for 1972
The M on the VIN tag only appears on Italian delivery cars. Not certain how early it started, but I think yours is one of the first I know of.
You mention Oct delivery; do you know when the car was actually completed? I would think that with so low a VIN that the completion date would be in Aug or Sept. I am a bit surprised at how high the production # is compared to the VIN; was the S low priority at the time? I believe that at this time the VIN's would start with 0011 making yours the 80th S coupe. Very interesting anyway, and thanks for the info.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FGS

. . . Are you sure that "0671" is simply the body sequential number? . . .

---

Clarification --- for a Coupe . . .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by davep

. . . The number under the knee pad will be a production number . . . All coupes will have one series in ascending # as they were produced, and all targas will have another series. These series are independent of T, E or S models . . .

---

And what ever happened w/ 0130003? --- the 71? Targa that started this thread? Was there a crayon number --- under the dash pad?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by davep

1020671
Yes, the 2 is the model year for the body.
671 is the sequential build # for the coupe body
112xxxx would be for the Targa bodies for 1972
The M on the VIN tag only appears on Italian delivery cars. Not certain how early it started, but I think yours is one of the first I know of.
You mention Oct delivery; do you know when the car was actually completed? I would think that with so low a VIN that the completion date would be in Aug or Sept. I am a bit surprised at how high the production # is compared to the VIN; was the S low priority at the time? I believe that at this time the VIN's would start with 0011 making yours the 80th S coupe. Very interesting anyway, and thanks for the info.

---

You're welcome!

The car was delivered on the 14th of October, 1971. I don't know the production date as I didn't asked for the Kardex: my car had a 2.7 engine when I bought it, so I wasn't interested anymore to know if the engine was matching or not.
About the production number, I was surprised too when I saw it. I supposed that VIN and production# should have been closer than that, but it's clear that our assumptions often don't match the facts.

These production #'s and associated VIN's make for some interesting speculation:

1020001 9112100011
1020097 9112100062
1020248 9112300023
1020475 9112100988
1020661 9112300063
1020671 9112300090
1020679 9112300047
1020776 9112300075