I have heard the legendary 911S from the movie Le Mans will be sold at the RM Auction at Monterey in August.
Don
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I have heard the legendary 911S from the movie Le Mans will be sold at the RM Auction at Monterey in August.
Don
The '70 . . . Frank Gallogly's car.
Rick Kreiskott
So I'm concerned . . . have not seem Frank G. post anything on this board in quite a long time. And I know this car is/was under his care . . . is Frank alright?
After the ex-McQueen Lusso went for $2.3m when times were bad (in brown, furchrissake) . . . .
. . . what will the 'S' go for, now that times are better?
Any guesses?
Rick Kreiskott
PS Wonder if the numbers match.
Rick: I'd love a high resolution version of this last shot if you have one...Quote:
Cheers,
Adam
How long did McQueen own the '70 that was in the movie?
My understanding is that his son Chad still owns one of his favorite cars, the '69 911s in the same colors.
...a better ?? would be, "by how many 00's will someone overpay" ????Quote:
Originally Posted by Rennman
I would guess an estimate of USD 300-400.000, and it will makes about 450.000?
. . . I'd give it to you if I could . . . but I pinched that pic from an on-line article --- LA Times, or European Automobile, or something like that --- a while back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Curoswiss
Here's the biggest one I could find:
http://www.classicandperformancecar.....php?id=237324
Rick Kreiskott
I looked on Frank's site, and RM's . . . no confirmation of Rennman's little tid-bit, but . . . if the '70 comes up for auction, then I've got just one word --- or rather, one name --- to say . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Milou
Seinfeld.
Rick Kreiskott
Don would probably know if the car were coming up for sale, or why would he post??
As for what happened to Frank? He still posts on Pelican. He's one of the old-timers that S'oterik wonders...WHERE THEY ALL WENT?
AS for WHY he no longer posts....I'll leave that to the valuation and originality specialists to speculate on....
Frank sold his building - Paradise Garage - at Lime Rock and is culling the herd. I would not anticipate a no reserve bargain!
Thanks Rick. That ones big enough...
Frank is alive and well :) I spoke with him today.I am sure RM will start promoting the sale. I do not think you can overpay for a McQueen car...
quote: As for what happened to Frank? He still posts on Pelican. He's one of the old-timers that S'oterik wonders...WHERE THEY ALL WENT?
AS for WHY he no longer posts....I'll leave that to the valuation and originality specialists to speculate on....[/QUOTE]
Funny but how true.....
Don
Quite right. Ownership of the film-prop 911S for more than 36 months should dispel any talk of car-flipping. The $172M realized during Monterey Week last year was realized from the piggy banks of true enthusiasts. Milou's estimate may prove to be low, but it would be wrong to put a price on a piece of the True Cross.
The sale is not a secret. Frank is a man who made his money the hard way; nothing was given to him. He also recognizes value whereas the lemmings are chasing trends. He is a smart man. Do not sell him short.
Tom
I must be dense..... but I will speculate on the value.......Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Sman
One interesting question would be which is more valuable this car or the 69S he owned for much longer and passed on to chad-last i knew chad still owned it.
Interesting question Raj! (is it a sucker post?) I would think the Le Mans car is more valuable than the 69 car Chad still owns.
Although it had a much shorter McQueen ownership, it did receive a lot more public exposure. It is after all THE "Le Mans" 911: the movie that recorded forever McQueen's connection to Porsche...
That of course doesn't mean the 69 car isn't valuable or less desirable.....
Raj, wasn't a sucker post AT ALL. Don got it. And I believe that Frank actually posted here why he was leaving....Quote:
Originally Posted by varunan123
Anybody want to put a 2-figure bet on a 7-figure Reserve?
I like sucker posts............
I do not think this car will bring 7 figures. Sold for much less to Frank a knowledgable (though be it shrewd) collector. I would speculate he doubles his money but the car doesn't clear $650,000. His 930 sold inexpensively. I also think $650,000 is a very big chunk of cash.
To Raj's question I think the 69S would be more valuable because it was his DD. Now, the next question would be how do you measure value.
IF it were to go the way of Seinfeld it would be very simple to contact him directly with a price offering. A very dear friend who passed way in 2006 had his Spyder go to Seinfeld through my friends estate. Just contact Sam Cabiglio one of his Porsche buddies and make the offering. I'm not going to speculate on the price, I just know it's not going to be me to buy it!
Insofar as oldtimers not on the board, well, there is fewer and fewer of them as each season turns. I "don't" wonder why....
I guess I can hope that it might get purchased by one of our more "well healed" enthusiasts that actually drives their cars... would be kinda cool to see it show up at a function like it has in the past.
e
I think Steve McQueen, the king of Cool and the Hollywood mega star, will contribute more added value to a Jaguar D-type, a Ferrari Lusso or a 911 than to a pick up truck. Because it's a more obvious association of "brands", and even more so if you take into account the profile of the audience targeted at a pebble beach car auction!
Hmmm, not what I heard from the seller's end of the deal 2 years ago. I'll stick with my 7-figure reserve (or maybe just under) guesstimate. Shocking, I know. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Macroni
I'd like to buy that old Ford truck...
Watched "The Great Escape" again with my son the other night...they don't make 'em like Steve McQueen any more...
So that would calculate out to : $60,000 for the 1970 Porsche & $ 950,000 for his name ( not autograph) in the owners manuel....as far as Seinfeld purchase goes, he has more "sense" than $$. I wouldn't think SC would advise of this purchase. The CO overpaid when it was purchased from the PO, it just doesn't add up.Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtEgerer
what's the word i'm trying to think of here : provenance, it's ten times the "cost" of an identical item. will the fact that mr.midas' touch of 'provenance' in this case, having owned it for 6 months or 3 years, make any real difference to artistic/collectibility pricing of an item at auction ? if someone will pay $1mn, they will.
no mention previously that "this lusso was owned for 4.7 years" or "this picasso was kept by mrs.picasso for 48 years " as affecting price. compared to "this lusso was owned for 2.1 years"
i read steve mcQ's first wife's biography last year, great cultural icon, cool stylista, but his dark side was pretty dark too.
r.
Always difficult to "price" provenance from the outset into the published auction estimate. It is always much better to let the bidders decide amongst themselves what it adds or doesn't to the value of the car.
When you impose too much value from the outset, you can literally freeze (discourage) the room and miss quite a lot of bids. Remember the James Bond Aston Martin DB5? It carried so much pre-auction hype and such an inflated estimate, that it fell flat on its face and sold to a single bidder. That was just a few months ago, I hope the RM experts learned their lesson and will be able to maintain an encouraging estimate (of course it also depends on the seller).
I personally think that this car is the most famous "911S" in the world.
If I could afford it, I would purchase it and give it to the Porsche Museum.
Another way to look at this car is to think about the premium JS paid for 917 #20, driven by McQueen in the movie. I would suspect he paid a huge premium for that 917 over another 917 regardless of its racing history. So, I would suspect LeMans movie provenance will be huge in the same way; not only associated with McQueen but starred in the movie.
We currently live in a world where, to a billionaire, this car is pocket change at any price. For the rest of us non-billionaires, if you buy it and keep it for a long time, you better hope that the day you sell it, the current generation of car collectors still worships the "king of cool" as much as the boomers do now.
Or, let's say you already possess a car that is exactly the same color and model as this one, or have one that you've paid good money to make look like this one (same specs), and you must have Steve's, then what you'd be buying here is the fact that he owned it, put gas in it, and shouted at Neile in it.
So, for your six or seven figures, what else would you get? Well, in your little circle, real or virtual, you'd be famous for owning something that once belonged to someone famous. You could take it to car shows and hobnob with the autoati, stand next to it on the lawn, much like Gatsby on his lawn, and admire your acquisition. At home you could jump up and down on your bed clutching the keys and shout "It's mine! It's all mine!" Or, if that's not your style, in the privacy of your own garage, you could sit in it, fondle the radio knobs, and say to yourself, "Steve also sat here and fondled these nobs." Heck, you could even watch the movie and say to whomever is within earshot, "That's my car," to which they'd reply, "I know! Everyone knows." (And by the way, my is a relative term, as you'd only be borrowing it from the universe for a little while.)
The way I see it, if you have the extra cash, and those things float your boat, then go for it. Why not?
I will add this though, not long ago I was able to spend some time with Jo Siffert's old 911 Targa. It was fun to be there with it, to touch it and reflect on it having once been owned by one of Switzerland's greatest race car drivers. But I walked away from the car thinking, but Seppi is never coming back for another ride. He's LONG gone. In a way, the soul of what made it special was also gone forever, and all that was left was just, well, a car.
I bet Steve sure would get a kick out of this. And oh, I'm just wondering, how much would a contemporary car collector pay for Rudolf Valentino's 1924 Fiat convertible because it had once been owned by the "Latin Lover"?
Cheers,
Rich
My wife and I stopped at The Garage at Lime Rock, Frank was welcoming, we
viewed his collection and my wife sat in Steve McQueen's car...it really made her day, so what was that worth, to her...priceless
Thanks, Frank
That's the tough part - right now it has highest awareness with the group who has most of the money - the baby boomers. What will come in 10 years is a good question.Quote:
Originally Posted by varunan123
What about the value of having a Le Mans collection. I mean, Seinfeld being the guy that has both of McQueen's cars from that flick. Kind of gives him a monopoly on the Le Mans market. Boss takes pride in owning every Ferrari 250GT Buono made, all 3 of them. He thinks it raises the ultimate value of that model.
Not to be cynical, but what if JS owns it already and threw a bone to RM. They have a few schills in the crowd to create hype and then say it was purchased by the mystery buyer on the phone. I've heard of that type of stuff happening too.
I am sure he is the front runner. He has said (and recorded) that this car from the movie IS the reason he started loving Porsches(I am sure there are others here that feel the same too) as a kid. Look what a couple of reruns can buy you....your childhood dream car!
I'm with Curt on this....Seven figures easily. There are many people interested in this car and I'm one of them...Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtEgerer
Do not use the sale price of Steve's 1976 Turbo as ANY sort of barometer. The auctioneers couldn't have done a weaker job on selling that car if they'd sent it through locked in a sea container.
If this car is marketed properly, and sent through the right sale, it will break any ceilings the best guessers would like to impose. The money is out there.
History tells us that the value of a similar 911S/Lusso/Ford pickup etc has absolutely no bearing on the final number, so we'll have to wait and see who is hot to trot on the day.
Which car would you rather own.....
The '70 911s that was in the movie for a minute or two or the '69 911s that is still owned by his son?
There's no way I see this car in 7 figures.
Again - how long did he actually own and drive this car?
This post makes a lot of sense to me sitting here on the sideline. The CO of the film-prop '70 S bought and flipped 917-022 from Richard Attwood to its CO, spending the better part of two years romancing him. It has been surmised that a similar strategy would be employed with the film-prop '70 S during the CO's brief ownership. I won't speculate on whether the CO of 917-022 (with sage advice) has taken a definitive pass on the film-prop '70 S at the required price or if this announcement is just a stratagem to move him or some other buyer off the fence. RM should be willing to allow a high reserve as the CO evidently needs. I have seen people willing to cough-up silly money in Monterey in recent Augusts, but I agree with the concern expressed above that the hype doesn't scare-off bidders as happened with that film-prop DB5 in London...Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisaa
Raj! I read Matt Stone's wonderful article, accompanied by Hal Thoms' brilliant photography, in the December 2007 Excellence while I was on the plane flying cross-country to Daytona Beach for Rennsport-Reunion III. Did you miss it? Stone interviewed Jesse Rodriguez, then-owner of chassis 9110301502, the car which is the subject of this thread. The film-prop '70 S came to Jesse from the second owner, a Southern California attorney who bought it from Steve McQueen himself, along with "a file several inches thick with factory documents, letters in the envelopes they came in, and other paperwork dating back to the original sales invoice. Even the cardboard key tag is intact." The car was "billed to McQueen and Solar Productions..." --David
"An invoice dated June 1, 1970 shows 911S chassis number 9110301502 being billed to McQueen and Solar Productions," as stated in Excellence, December 2007. Michael Keyser's definitive book about the film, A French Kiss With Death states that, "Principal photography on The 24 Hours of Le Mans, later shortened to just Le Mans, was set to begin on June 7, a week prior to the actual race." The actual movie was shot in July and August of 1970, after the race, so it sounds like McQueen owned the car all along. As Matt Stone wrote in Excellence, "While it's clear that Porsche KG was supportive of the filming of Le Mans (Stuttgart had just notched its first overall victory, after all), no freebie cars were supplied to Steve McQueen and company." -- David
I'd rather have his Speedie --- the one McQueen pestered Bruce Meyer about, and bought back.Quote:
Originally Posted by varunan123
The first car McQueen bought new, the first car he raced . . . and the first car he won a race in.
Rick Kreiskott
Absolutely spot on...Quote:
Originally Posted by varunan123
I understand that if Steve McQueen chose to keep the 1969 car, it makes it very valuable (and a one "star" owner car!), but it isn't as famous, popular, and iconic as his Le Mans car. It is most often mentioned as the "other" 911 that didn't feature in Le Mans.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to own the 1969 car and I'm sure that it would fetch a huge premium, but the present car has a more "public" fame that the RM marketing dept will maximize to target a much bigger audience.
Milou: +1!
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/4...502mcqueen.jpg
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
In my archives , since 3 june 1970 owner is MC QUEEN and the insurance for car 911 030 1502 is available from 3 june to 02 december 1970.
Gotta agree with Curt on this one. I think we will see a very large number for this car.
Lets hope Mr LI/Seinfeld does not get bothered with about this sale this year at the Lit show. He may need two baseball caps.
.
. . . There goes the CoA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine17
Original non-LSD cars should have a transmission number recorded. Ya think the CoA trans is still in that car?
Rick Kreiskott
I believe so. That car most certainly has some type of racing gearbox ratio set in it. I ran behind Frank a few years ago when put together a non formal Steve McQueen 911S Saturday mornoing drive. It was a nice 40 mile cruise around the Lime Rock country scene. Midway through the ride Frank made a pitstop and my father who was riding with me hopped in the 70S with Frank for the remainder of the drive. The car sounded and ran beautifully. You could tell first and second gears were much taller than stock.
Why is no one saying anything for the lack of a sunroof??? I have always wondered about this fact?? ......? SUNROOF??? Any body???
Please gentlemen, the car has a sunroof.........
As a collector friend says: "Some people wouldn't know a good car if it ran over them."
Tom
To me this post is a very smart, subjective, stimulating, and easy 'shoe on the other foot' way of looking at this....Quote:
Another way of looking at this maybe,what if you owned it what would you ask and how would you market it?It's always different from the sellers perspective vs the buyers.
If i were the seller,i would probably call it a highly optioned S with a well documented history with original ownership by none other than steve Mcqueen,who's appreciation for cars and motorcycles have been well documented with books and events.It in essence is a 911S celebration of Porsche history in the early 70's.Besides ownership by Mr Mcqueen it is one of the most recognizable 911 in the 911 community and racing community due to it's cameo appearance in the opening scene in the movie "Le Mans".
Man, if it was me, what would I say???????
Thanks Raj,
Chuck
Love it :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sithot
Besides the Dec. 2007 article in Excellence by Matt Stone, the article in Octane, issue # 56/Feb. 2008 by Nigel Grimshaw is an excellent supplemental reading on the history of this car.
Perspective; What is the dune buggy or the chess set from the Thomas Crown affair worth?
Mine has the embossed 2 and I'm pretty sure it was the only one issued to the car as it has the first service interval noted. Car delivered August of 1971.
Steve McQueen: Working on Dune Buggy
"Watch a video of Steve working on the dune buggy from 'The Thomas Crown ..."
www.mcqueenonline.com/tcadunebuggyvid.htm
(S. McQueen provides dialog on video)
Answers.com :
Q : Who owns the thomas crown affair dune buggy?
A :The buggy used in the film is apparently owned by someone who lives in Hawaii, and they will not let anyone see the car.
From a FoxNews story today. Green ;)
[QUOTE][Interestingly, the Porsche is painted nearly the same shade of green as the car McQueen is better known for, the Ford Mustang that he drove through the streets of San Francisco in the 1968 smash hit “Bullitt.”
/QUOTE]
I've seen a fair number of MR Books, but none with perforated numbers like that. Perhaps if more people can post their knowledge we might be able to determine the reason for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by varunan123
Interestingly enough...that is the same story as the one remaining Bullitt Mustang. It is in hiding on the east coast and the owner won't let anyone see it. It makes me think BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by peekaboo
RM auction has now announced the sale of the car on their website, and yet it doesn't mention the estimate!
Perhaps it hasn't yet been agreed upon?
Seems odd to announce only half of the story....If anything, it shows lack of confidence.
The car is making the tour de RM - it was on display at Amelia Island, complete with video monitor running loop of scene from LeMans + McQueen jacket and other repro stuff. Clever marketing - as you'd expect from Frank!
That may be a two-way street. RM's representing the car in publicity shots and at Amelia with an incorrect right side windshield wiper doesn't exactly instill that important commodity, now does it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Milou
....so, just wondering where the "Z" car is that you and Steve raced with JR Jones back in "the-day". That should be worth something ????;)Quote:
Originally Posted by gsjohnson
I would have sourced a correct pair of SWF wiper blades (had those on my E !) oriented them properly and "ambered up" those fogs and finally put on one of the nice recreation LeMans parking stickers. But thats just me.
One of the repro "1970 Zone de Ravitaillements" stickers that the late Steve Sailors made up for this car from a screen capture appears to be visible in the photos.Quote:
Originally Posted by boxster03
No - This is how the auction houses work. I doubt they will announce the estimate range until they have the Monterey catalogue all done later this year (Or at least the preview cars). Both reputable, high end houses Gooding and RM are doing it this way (See Amelia Island as well). And there is a high likelyhood that the estimate will be "Upon request".Quote:
Originally Posted by Milou
I doubt that an auction house like RM would lack any confidence in the marketing and presentation of a car like this. They have done it all and seen it all ...
Not sure what your saying. Maybe you could clarify?Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisaa
Oh myQuote:
Originally Posted by Nine17
Steve sailor died? The fellow who raced the Renault Alpine? I encountered him on several occasions out at Buttonwillow and WSR sorting his Alpine. Lovely car, nice fellow...
Sad to hear that
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/ora...&pid=141385317Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummler
Vaya con dios, amigo...
Thanks for passing that along.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine17
Strange coincidence...
I met Steve in the mid 90's while hanging out with the late Len Frank of KPFK's the car show. Len was battling colon cancer at the time and died about 12 months later.
It's making the rounds.....
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2011/...le/?test=faces
A few years ago I met Steve Sailor through Frank G and he ended up buying my 63 Super 90 Sunroof Coupe with just 36K on it. Then last year I was going through some old boxes and found some spare keys so I contacted him. He told me of his battle with cancer but was upbeat about it and thankful to get the keys. Steve was a great guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummler
Here are a few pics I took last weekend at the Amelia RM auction.
and has even made the major newspapers in Australia too (another Murdoch company, longer piece than on the Fox site)
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226026553889
McQueen Porsche pricelessly cool
YEARS after his death, McQueen memorabilia commands a premium on everything from sunglasses to sports cars.
YOU'D have to say that, alive or dead, Steve McQueen has done a better job managing his image than Charlie Sheen. Of course, in reality, there is not too much difference between them in their private lives.
By the time McQueen was 11 his father had left home, his mother had left him and his stepfather had abused him.No wonder he had big tastes for coke, booze, sex, speed (the car, bike and plane kind) and little taste for intimate relationships.
McQueen's third wife, Barbara Minty, and biographer Marshall Terrill (McQueen: The Life and Legend of a Hollywood Icon) tour universities with a lecture and book signing on his life, talking to kids who were born long after McQueen died. At auction, his Persol sunglasses sold for $75,000, his Tag Heuer watch for nearly $90,000 and his Rolex for $240,000.
Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.
.End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
His 2005 commercial for Mustang, a riff on Kevin Costner's Field of Dreams, shows that even today he is as cool as he was when he died in 1980. (Find it on YouTube.) You can't watch it without feeling a tingle as McQueen's double races the Mustang on a track through a cornfield.
Eccentric English (tautology there) designer Steve Day is remaking the car chase from Bullitt using McQueen action figures and slot cars. It's slow and vaguely weird but, then again, so was Steve. (Again, see YouTube.)
But McQueen's greatest work of art was the 1971 stunner Le Mans. The movie bankrupted his production company, most of his relationships and just made some money. But if you love cars and racing you just have to watch it. There is no story. ''The script is in my head.'' There were two directors. The producers threatened to shut the whole thing down.
Porsche wanted its cars back after the production wrote off six cars at $45,000 a piece in 1971 money; McQueen blew up a $43,000 engine with a bad gear shift; there was no female on the set he didn't share the joy with; there were very few times he didn't do some lines and take cars out on the track in the middle of the night; and he would regularly take women friends and production staff on 160km/h drives through the French countryside in his slate-grey 1970 Porsche 911S.
Steve drove the 911S in the opening scenes of Le Mans, then took it home with him. And of course RM Auctions now has it in its August Monterey sale. A really good 1970 911S will bring $55,000, tops. Here's how to think about how much to pay for this one. Hint: I asked Rob Myers if he would take my four kids as trade-in and he said: ''And what else have you got?''
If you would prefer to buy Steve's Highland Green 68 Mustang fastback from Bullitt then you can't because the owner is not going to part with it. But the good old boys in Gateway Classic Mustang at Bourbon, Missouri (I didn't make it up), will sell you a limited edition 1968 Steve McQueen Signature Mustang originally built for Steve's son Chad.
Powered by a Roush340kWsmall block, the Highland Green car generates 27 per cent more power than the original. Built on a 1967 or 68 original Ford body, the Mustang comes with Baer 30cm disc brakes, which are quite helpful when you want to stop.
Better than any car movie is the real-life Renault spy scandal. Just to give you a quick preview: last year a whistleblower sent poison pen letters to Renault bosses telling them the top executives of their electric car business were taking bribes. Of course who else would want to spy on the Froggies than the dastardly Chinese? Naturally the French government, which owns a slice of the carmaker, sent in its own spies and made it a big international incident. In a demonstration of corporate loyalty, Renault bosses fired the three guys who were meant to be taking a sling.
Renault boss Carlos Ghosn, who is also Nissan's boss, told the media he was absolutely sure of how crook things were. ''Of course we are sure. If we weren't sure, we wouldn't be where we are,'' he said at one point. And: ''We're not amateurs. We didn't just invent it all, you know.''
Sorry, Carlos, as one journalist wrote: ''There was no evidence of anything.'' Eight weeks after giving the three electric executives the flick Renault has had to apologise to the three and offer them their jobs back. Inspector Clouseau suddenly looks like Sherlock Holmes.
Finally, a reminder that the Longford Revival is on next weekend followed by the Targa Tasmania, but the one to hold your breath for is the 16th annual Leyburn Sprints. Leyburn is the Le Mans of Australia and Shane Webcke's Royal Hotel is the Hotel de Paris of Queensland. Jim Murray built the hotel in 1863 and drunk himself to death six months later.
Shane has put on some specials for The Weekend Australian readers who mention Prestige Motoring. First up is the Webcke 800g rump for $32 and for poultry lovers the chicken kiev for $16. If you can stay on until April, Shane is trying to break the record for the greatest number of bikes (motor) through a bar. Last year he managed 1293. Steve would be pleased.
What I tell ya'Quote:
Originally Posted by emnemn
I am not so sure it is the most famous 911 in the world, but will sure be the priciest one! Crazy buzz on this car. Sure it would be cool to own McQueen's 911, but we all know how many cars, 911's or otherwise one can buy for what this will cost.
When someone is rich, I gather no explanation is needed.