I know about Harvey Weidman and Al Reed but has anyone used Rick Hartbrodt before? The turn around time is pretty fast and the pricing seems very good....
http://www.porschewheelservices.com
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I know about Harvey Weidman and Al Reed but has anyone used Rick Hartbrodt before? The turn around time is pretty fast and the pricing seems very good....
http://www.porschewheelservices.com
I've got two sets of wheels on the way back from Rick right now that should arrive next week. Happy to post my thoughts when they arrive.
I was down Costa Mesa way today and passed by California Porsche on Babcock to drop off some dashes I sell to Jason the owner... We were talking products and svc's and wheels came up... He brought out a set of 15's that were redone by Rick H's guy in-house... The wheels were of early style (polished daisy and lip/ painted backdrop (satin blk) and anodized w/ blk inner and backs.... I was really impressed at the overall job these guys did... I've redone aprox 25- 30 sets in this format with others- so I qualify as one who knows wheels fairly fluently- ( pity I sold my 286 piece Fuchs collection last year-ugh)... Ricks wheels- (in this format anyway)- frankly suprised me ESPECIALLY when I heard about price and 'turnaround".....Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal
I'll probably regret that I commented on this thread....
Don’t get me wrong…refinishing wheels is a hard, dirty job and anyone doing it for a living has to like it or they would do an easier job….
Don’t assume that all wheel refinishing is the same. The amount of time and effort put in the job varies by as much as three times or more…..
No one in this business makes big money. In fact, refinishing wheels is probably the lowest per hour specialty job that is done on Porsches.
If you are looking for price and turn around time, I have a diesel mechanic that will restore your MFI pump in a week for about one third of the going rate…..and I know guy that rebuilds engines also…..etc
Restoring wheels doesn’t take a year; they usually take 10-14 days. The wait time is what takes so long. The wait time is because we are busy. I can speak for Al too as he is also busy. Most shops in the Porsche business are busy….If you are restoring a car, planning and the time line is one of the things that we learn. We have restored over 10k wheels. We have also restored more than 20 Porsches. Worked on many more. Some were drivers and some were concourse level….some paint jobs were 800 and some 10k….
Use the service that fits you. From the paint and body to the mechanicals, interior and yes, the wheel refinishing.
JMHO
H
Excellent post!!
There's usually a good reason why the best have long lead times...Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Weidman
There is also a reason why someone that is new to the business and trying to break in can turnaround wheels in 4 to 5 weeks, it's because they are new to the business and have a short backlog. Doesn't mean that they do poor work which is what Harvey is insinuating, Rick's pricing is in between Al's and Harvey's so he is not the cheapest. I have not used Rick's service yet but it seems to me that we need more competition in this area, what is wrong with that? I am waiting for LiveFromNY to give his opinion when he receives his wheels. I have used both Harvey and AL and I was very happy with the results from both of them, so no sour grapes here, just disappointed in Harvey's comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenAcworth
I've used both Harvey and Al (multiple times) and I'm a fan of both their work. Harvey especially I consider an artist when it comes to Fuchs of any kind and I appreciate the knowledge he continually shares on these forums. But it certainly sounds like there's enough business to go around and, like many others, I'm appreciative of any opportunity to evaluate a new service provider and potentially save myself months of waiting.
I sent Rick a set of 15 x 7/8's from my '74 Carrera, a set of 15 x 6's from a 1972T, and a single deep six with heart being done as a spare to match a set of 4 done previously by Al. The wheels left my shop in Austin on 11/4 and they arrived at Rick's on 11/9. On 11/10 Rick contacted me to inform me that one of the wheels was bent and there would be an upcharge of $95 which I found fair and approved. During the process we also spoke on the phone and exchanged emails on other details, including the installation of the correct valve stems, during which time Rick demonstrated a detailed knowledge of both Fuchs wheels and Porsches in general.
On 11/21 Rick emailed me that my wheels were done. I made payment by Paypal shortly thereafter and yesterday the first set arrived at my shop. They were well packaged and shipped insured. As I'm traveling, I have not seen the wheels in person so I'll withhold my opinion for a couple more days until I'm back home this Friday. At that time I'll give them a close examination and compare them to sets I have that were recently refinished by both Al and Harvey.
I'm sharing a couple photos below - with the caveat that they were taken by one of the guys at my shop with his cell phone and sent to me via text message so I have no idea how accurately they represent the finished product. I will say that Rick was a pleasure to deal with. He answered his phone every time I called and was equally responsive via email. From that perspective, I give him the highest marks. As for the wheels, I'll know more soon. But when I asked my guy at my shop how they looked he gave me a one word answer: "Awesome". We shall see...
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I should add that anyone in Austin who wants to see these wheels in person is welcome to stop by my shop. Just shoot me a PM.
I have no problem with Harvey's comment -- it seems to me he went out of his way to NOT denigrate the work of anyone else. I, for one, was reading his post and expecting him to downgrade his competition, but he never did. He's not a wordsmith, nor do we expect him to be, so maybe there was some room for your interpretation, but I don't think you are right about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mfitton
+1 on your observation that someone new to the business will obviously have a shorter backlog.
Jim how else would you interpret these comments:Quote:
Originally Posted by uptheorg
"If you are looking for price and turn around time, I have a diesel mechanic that will restore your MFI pump in a week for about one third of the going rate…..and I know a guy that rebuilds engines also…..etc"
Also remember this thread's start was asking about Rick's service:
OP: I know about Harvey Weidman and Al Reed but has anyone used Rick Hartbrodt before? The turn around time is pretty fast and the pricing seems very good....
Hopefully this doesn't turn into a pissing match. I used Al for the 16's on my car and have 2 sets of customer wheels with Harvey and a set of steel and aluminum prototype wheels we are working on.
Both do great work. Both are so busy that there seems room for another high quality player if Rick's work is really good. If he is that good I expect his turnaround time to be longer 6 to 12 months down the road. Or he'll have to hire and that adds costs and makes quality control a little tougher. The reference you make to Harvey might come from he and Al seeing others come and go over the years, and work sent to them after someone else buggered up the wheels. I don't think Harvey was disparaging a new player personally, (I didn't take it that way) but maybe for him he was telling folks to be careful based on past experience.
Chris
The best early Porsche restoration shops.......
Gunnar Racing
Road Scholars
Klub Sport
Freddie Hernandez
Canepa
CarParc
901 Shop
Flat Six
CPR
Paterek Brothers
TLG Auto
Rick Cabell
etc.....
The best early Porsche wheel restoration shops.....
Harvey Weidman
Al Reed
IMO, the market could use another qualified wheel restoration shop.....
The biggest difference here is the invaluable, experienced, detailed and very very informative information Harvey (finds the time to) share with all of this community. He does this freely and consistently and without his input I doubt any of us would know half of what we know about Fuchs wheels.
I want to say that I do not know Al or Rick but that because they say nothing on here (to the best of my knowledge) and I look forward to them sharing their knowledge on the Fuchs wheel with us in the same way Harvey does.
I found Harvey's response on this thread perfectly acceptable.
Regards
Mike
The best early Porsche restoration shops.......
Gunnar Racing
Road Scholars
Klub Sport
Freddie Hernandez
Canepa
CarParc
901 Shop
Flat Six
CPR
Paterek Brothers
TLG Auto
Rick Cabell
etc.....
I would add Vintage Car Works in Colorado to that list. Dave DiMaria's restored cars have done very well at the top events. The Slate Gray 66 911 won 3 awards at the last Parade including "Best Restored Car".
Chris
Where is "Flat Six" located?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal
http://www.flat6.com/Quote:
Originally Posted by A4GEN2
Minnesota
I did not read Harvey's commentary that way. I thought it was very fair. I have no skin in the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfitton
I find it surprising that neither Mayo Performance nor Jones Autowerkes are included on your list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal
They were around when most of the others were in diapers.(except Paterek)
Well at least you included one Texan, but you still left Mayo Performance off your list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soterik
My point of the list was just to name a few high end restoration shops, there are dozens out there......but when most folks talk about wheels there are only two names that come up. Given the amount of restorations that are currently happening I think another vendor would be nice.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Soterik
Hi Mike, nobody here is bashing Harvey or his excellent work, we all know he is the best. Nothing wrong with another quality wheel refinisher, we need another one. As for contributions to this community again Harvey is very helpful. I don't think AL owns a computer so don't hold your breath waiting for a post here, he is very helpful on the phone if you have the right phone number. Rick's work looks pretty good and seems like he might be the most computer savvy, might even be a little younger too! Harvey and Al are no spring chickens. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by 210bhp
OK, here are my thoughts for anyone who cares...
First, let me be clear that I do not consider myself an expert on Fuchs wheels. I'm lucky that I have many wheels on hand for comparison purposes, including wheels by Harvey, Al, and low-mileage originals, but I'm not holding myself out as an expert about specific details that might be correct or incorrect. The following is only my opinion.
Following my comments are several photos of the wheels in question. They were taken by me, in my shop with the rolling doors open, in close-to-natural light. The floors of my shop are gray, the walls are white, and the ceilings are blue. The photos have a little excess blue-tone to them. Please take that into account.
As I mentioned, I had 9 wheels refinished: a set of 4 from a 1972 911T, a set of 4 from my '74 Carrera, and a single deep 6 with heart. The center caps in the photos were refinished at the same time. Bottom line? The wheels are very, very nice. The anodizing is consistent and the paint appears well done with excellent lines. I do not know if Rick is spraying the paint or using another method like pooling the paint up to the line and draining the excess. Either way, the results are very good.
We really took our time comparing the wheels side-by-side with the other wheels in our shop and the opinions were close to unanimous. First of all, one thing I learned is that if you really take a magnifying glass to any of my wheels - no matter who refinished them - you can find tiny flaws. None of my wheels - again, no matter who refinished them - are perfect. Of course, I'm sure the wheels weren't perfect from the factory either.
Starting with the anodizing. The consensus opinion was that the wheels by Harvey and Rick had the nicest anodizing. Al's were also very nice - especially from a few feet away - but up close the wheels by Harvey and Rick had a more consistent anodized finish. If you look closely, Al's anodizing appears to be a bit thin in places and, side by side, we found it easy to single out Al's wheels from the others. This isn't meant to be a huge criticism. I have several sets of wheels that Al has done and I've always thought they looked great. It was only today, looking at them side-by-side, that I noticed the difference in anodizing. Advantage: Harvey and Rick.
On to the paint. Again, all of the wheels looked very nice. The paint lines were clean and the color was consistent from wheel to wheel. None of the wheels showed any runs, drips, or flaws. There was some debate that Harvey's paint had just a bit more gloss to it - a little more satin vs a little more flat - but we went back and forth on this in different light and couldn't really seem to agree on this 100%. Either way, it wasn't a deal breaker. Advantage: 3-way tie.
As for the little details... I had asked Rick to deepen the paint line on the single deep 6 w/heart I sent him (to match the deeper line that Al does by request) and he nailed it. He also installed the correct valve stems as per my request. I was surprised to see that Rick had painted the lug holes as I had always been advised that wasn't recommended. I have no idea how true that advice is but I'll probably remove this paint myself before installing the wheels. The only flaw of any type on any of the wheels from Rick was a very tiny flaw on the edge of one of the black-painted center caps where it looks like it may have been touched before it was completely dry. This is a very minor flaw and, even though I know Rick is going to ask me to send it back, it really isn't worth the time and I'm not going to. You could look at the car 1,000 times and never notice it. Advantage on the details: Harvey and Al (if I'm being picky).
Overall, I'm very, very pleased with Rick's work. Today, after looking at all of my wheels closely, and really paying attention to the details, my opinion would be that if Harvey's wheels are a 10, then Rick's are a 9.5 and Al's are a 9. If Rick fixes the tiny details I mentioned, I'd have to call this a dead heat.
So that's my opinion, for what it's worth. Again, anyone in the Hill Country who wants to see them in person is welcome to stop by my shop. I hope some of you find this information helpful.
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Should the rankings factor in wait time and price with respect to the OP?
Thank you posting this....it answers my OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveFromNY
Thanks for the excellent summary, John. Very helpful.
If anyone has had a set of 4.5x15s done in the original 67S manner, I'd be interested in detailed pics of the lug holes. The mask line around the lug holes appears to be a real challenge to get right.
I dropped quarters into the lug holes before primer and paint and they dropped in perfect. The valve stem is masked since I left the tires on the wheels
http://i1296.photobucket.com/albums/...pse0c52cfb.jpg
http://i1296.photobucket.com/albums/...psdad47785.jpg
Too spendy for me Bob.
I use old alum wheel nuts that I would otherwise toss.
Bob,
There is a product available now to easily mask the tire when painting wheels with them on. It is similar to the cone you'd place on a dog's neck.
It expands and contracts for different sized wheel. Auto body suppliers carry them.-Matt
I was going to double drop quarters but it was too expensiveQuote:
Originally Posted by Frank Beck
W.
O.
W.
....
Did that really just happen?
I guess it is time for me to chime in with my .02 cents worth. I value it at about half that.
Firstly let me say that both Harvey and Al do good work. I thought Harvey’s post was not all that derogatory. Probably on about par with what I would say if the roles were reversed.
Our mission statement is to do the best work out there. I’ve been doing Porsche cars for 48 years now. In my long business experience I’ve learned that if you communicate with people by returning calls and emails in a timely fashion you can make any business successful if the quality is there. Hence our good customer service. On the wheels, we do all steps in house. This makes for a better finished product and seriously cuts down on the time the wheels are out of service. We don’t have to transport the wheels around town to others nor do we have to wait for others to do any work. This allows us to turn the wheels around much quicker and seems to help hold the line on quality.
Harvey is correct that no one will get wealthy doing Fuchs. It is just too labor intensive. We don’t intend nor do we need to steal business from Al or Harvey. If you are happy with them stay with them. If you need some work done more quickly I encourage you to take a look at our product. It is a product from people that care, done on equipment that is state of the art. I don’t know if I can post our simple website here. If inappropriate the moderator will let me know. Our best wishes to all.
PorscheWheelServices.com
Please drive your P cars, they will love you for the exercise.
Below are some wheels Rick did for me, took 3 weeks which includes 4 days shipping. I'm no Fuchs pro but think they look great.. we exchanged a bunch of emails & text and he was super responsive. Attachment 408102Attachment 408103
I think we might be obsessing over the smallest details.
All of the comparisons are about wheels right after they're finished. I wonder how they look after 500 miles?
I suspect they might be using different brands of paint. Is there any difference in how they hold up?
Richard Newton
Vintage Racing Wheels
I've had wheels by Harvey, Al Reed, and Wheel Enhancement (none by Rick "yet"). The wheels I have had done were 4.5's, 5.5's and early deep 6's. There are substantial visual differences between Harvey's work and the others, and it has nothing to do with the paint.
The manner in which Harvey makes these differences may be a trade secret, but I had a set of 4.5's done by Al recently (late 2015), and they are at Harvey's to be redone correctly. It has to do with the finish on the vertical areas of the spokes. Sorry, I don't have anything at the home shop to show what I mean, all in distant storage.
E
I am going to assume that Rick did not do your center caps since they do not match the anodizing on the wheels.Quote:
Originally Posted by dogLeg
I don't believe Harvey anodizes the center cap, because of the metal prongs.
I think that Harvey is the "Gold Standard" in refinishing. That said, many can't wait a year or more to get their wheels done. That opens up a market for someone who can do wheels almost as good in a shorter time span.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTarga
Yes , you are correct but they have a way matching the anodizing color on the wheels.
Rick Hartbrodt (https://www.fuchsrestoration.com) does anodize the centre caps. He uses a protective coating to preserve the prongs so they don't come loose. They look great (I have a set). He did send one wrong one, but that's being remedied. His wheels look terrific too, at least in the pictures.
Ravi
Attachment 409272Attachment 409273
I also just had a set of deep six wheels refinished by Rick. The wheels look great and Rick is very easy to do business with. It took about four weeks to complete. I have been on Harvey's waiting list for a long time and I finally just decided to move on to another wheel refininisher.
How do I contact Harvey? I had some wheels refinished that are still pitted from another shop and would like to get his opionion on what can be done to get to concourse level.
Thanks
David Chesrown
Weidman Wheels
(530) 5434-7903
weidmanwheel@global.net
Hope this helps,
cm