Did the BMW 3.0CSL compete in the same class as the Carrera RS in 1973?

Printable View

12-19-2010, 08:04 AM
execmalibu

1 Attachment(s)

Did the BMW 3.0CSL compete in the same class as the Carrera RS in 1973?

I always loved the BMW 3.0CS and I recently stumbled upon an amazingly original 3.0CS with a Sunroof... I already have early 911s (5) and 356s (2) a Dino Spyder and the BMW fits perfectly in the group....

While reading about the BMWs and their race history I noticed that in a few articles they stated the BMW 3.0CSL won their class and the world title against the Porsches and Fords from 1973-79. Did the 3.0CSL really win against the Carrera RS at Lemans, Daytona, Nurburgring with Stuck, and Lauda etc in 1973-79?
12-19-2010, 08:43 AM
Flieger

They raced against the 935s around 1976-1977. They were faster when they turned the boost up, but the BMWs either blew up the transmissions or the engine before the end of the race. Then the 935s got developed into a faster, more reliable car and BMW took their ball and walked away to the 2.0 liter class with the 320i Turbo. I think that was group 4, not 5. That led to Porsche creating the 1.4 liter 935 Bubi to prove they could beat BMW, since group 5 was all Porsche.

Sam Posey and Hans Stuck drove CSLs.

Edit: In 1973, they were winning, but winning Touring Car races, not "Sports Car" races, where Porsches were classified.
Lots of Spa-Francorchamps 24 Hours wins went to the BMWs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_E9
12-19-2010, 09:33 AM
Steve@Rennsport

In IMSA,...3.0 CSL's raced in GTO against 3.0 RSR's rather successfully although they were not as reliable. These cars had the M1's 3.5 litre, 4-valve, twin-cam engine making 450 HP.

They were sure faster than our 403BHP RSR, but we usually outlasted them,.... :) :) :)
12-19-2010, 10:49 AM
execmalibu

No matter how fast you are... In order to win you the race... you must first finish!!!
12-19-2010, 11:41 AM
72 S Trga

In 1974, I attended a race at Norisring, which was around a park in Nuremburg. Hans Stuck Jr. was driving a 3.0CSL and eventually won the race. There were several '74 RSR's in the race, too. One was the Jagermeister car and another was the Photo Quell car.

They were in the same race, but I'm not sure if they were racing in the same class or not. I was a GI stationed in Stuttgart at the time and grabbed a last minute train to Nuremburg for the race. I didn't know any of the particulars, other than there would be new RSR's there!!
12-19-2010, 12:20 PM
LongRanger

4 Attachment(s)

3.0 versus 3.5

Quote:

Originally Posted by execmalibu

I always loved the BMW 3.0CS . . . While reading about the BMWs and their race history I noticed that in a few articles they stated the BMW 3.0CSL won their class and the world title against the Porsches and Fords from 1973-79. Did the 3.0CSL really win against the Carrera RS at Lemans, Daytona, Nurburgring with Stuck, and Lauda etc in 1973-79?

Daytona, '76 --- yes.

But that's a 3.5 CSL, set-up for IMSA --- a totally different animal . . . and about as far away from a CS, or even a 3.0 CSL, as you can get and still be an E9 --- real fur-bearing battlewagons, built to race 'Vettes and 935s.

Rick Kreiskott
12-19-2010, 01:16 PM
Mr9146

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongRanger

real fur-bearing battlewagons

Great quote, Rick.
12-19-2010, 02:34 PM
G69

That's a great motor. I built one for a Hot-Rod Bavaria. One of the most fun cars I ever drove.

Great potential but completely castrated in US EPA trim with thermal reactors and 7.2-1 CR.

With pistons and a new exhaust that 3.0 will rock! The cars I SHOCKED with that Bavaria...

ENJOY
01-08-2011, 09:57 AM
peekaboo

1 Attachment(s)

"Touring Car"

Correct , 3.0 (and even the 3.2 - 3.3 , I believe) CSL's were classified / ran in Grp. 2.

But the 3.5 CSL's were grp. 5 in Europe.

An example , 1976 Le Mans 24hrs. , the Ravenel Freres (No. 95) placed 24th overall & 1st of grp. 2 (238 laps completed).

The Porsche No. 55 (Almeras Bro's car with C. Poirot & R. Boubet / Pilotes) in the photo finished 23rd overall & 8th of grp. 5 (246 laps completed).

Not pictured, but finishing 10th overall & 4th of grp. 5 , was the Alpina / BMW Motorsport 3.5 CSL with pilotes : H. Grohs , S. Posey , Baron Hughes de Fierlandt (300 laps completed).

Grp. 5 was won by Rolf Stommelen & Manfred Schurti , in a Porsche / Martini Motorsport 935 (4th overall in the event - 332 laps completed).
01-11-2011, 06:23 AM
Bullethead

Quote:

Originally Posted by G69

That's a great motor. I built one for a Hot-Rod Bavaria. One of the most fun cars I ever drove.
Great potential but completely castrated in US EPA trim with thermal reactors and 7.2-1 CR.
With pistons and a new exhaust that 3.0 will rock! The cars I SHOCKED with that Bavaria...
ENJOY

An M49 is far removed from an M30, much more than pistons and exhaust: just the slide-throttle setup can set you back $25K or so, about 8 times the value of a Bavaria. The heads were Von Falkenhausen's twin cam 4 valve development used in F2 and F1 (turbo'd M10) and ultimately basis for the M88 (and later S38) used in the M1, M5 and M6. Even a tuned M30 is to an M49 what a 2.4T is to a 3.0 RSR.

I love CSLs and own a real one, and 1975 was a great year for fans but Steve and Rick are right... racing CSLs were fur-bearing battlewagons (great line! :D) that twisted diffs or halfshafts or blowed up real good more often than it's Porsche competitors.