no, not mine....
here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2448512346
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no, not mine....
here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2448512346
"needs complete restoration"...honesty in advertising? Looks like an expensive money pit to me. Reserve not met at $35K? Damned expensive for a beater...
I'm curious about a couple of things on the ID plate. It says 911 SC. And for total weight (gesamtgewicht), it says 1400 kg, what a 78 to 83 SC turbo weighs, if you round off.
Nice door panels, too:rolleyes:
Stacy,
Rob W. said that he inspected that car and the motor is very suspect regarding the serial number. He said he couldn't even find the 911/83 type stamp anywhere. If it is in need of full restoration and doesn't have an RS motor the reserve should be very low IMO.
Charlie,
I wondered the same thing when I noticed that on the VIN plate and gold foil sticker on the fan housing of my car. The answer is on page 60 of the 'Carrera RS' book it says:
"In order to simplify licensing proceedures, the car was internally and officially named 911SC. This was to make it clear that it was not a completely new model, but rather a variation on the 911S."
I have indeed inspected the car firsthand. Stacy and Paul are right - can you say
FRIGHT PIG!!!!!!!
Having said that, I do have a writeup from my inspection earlier this year. If anybody has a serious interest in my notes, just PM me and I'll email them to you.
Any guesses on the final bid???????
Greetings All,
Rob your mailbox is full. I would be interested in the report and details of the rust. Car still looks cool. An RS rat!
Best,
Don
Thanks, George. My Langenscheidt German-English dictionary was no help.
Greetings George,
Would you please post the rest of the pictures. Your car is very neat. Just restore the mechanicals and go! You won't have to worry about parking lots.
Best,
Don
34,645 miles? Were they pro rally miles?
I'd like a good look at the foot pedal pads - level of wear is a good mileage indicator.
What's lurking under that sheepskin??
That wouldn't be a Pep Boys oil filter would it?
I have learned that all cars look good in compressed .jpg format - but a fright pig? Even in this condition, not nearly as much a fright pig as a used 928.
Needs at LEAST $35K put into it. I agree, if non original motor or especially a non RS motor - current bid is too high ($35.1k). Buyer beware! I think seller is playing dumb about the engine situation. Anyone who sells Fcars and Masers knows better, AND where to get the number info.
I'd like to see your report Rob.
P.S. If you call FRIGHT PIG - I believe it!
P.P.S George, your lens isn't nearly "ratty" enough!
Greetings,
Thanks for posting the pictures George. Great car. With so many in "show" condition it is nice to see an untouched as found original. It appears there are no modifications. Have you thought about cleaning it up as best you can and using it as is?
Best,
Don
Rust never sleeps Don. That car of George's deserves a full restoration.
Am I crazy to think that the car in the auction could actually be a good deal for about $40k? That leaves about $40k to restore it doesn't it?
First, start with an important lesson I learned from a top 911 restoration expert: there's an important distinction between (1) a real restoration, and (2) "fixing up" an old car.
I've also learned that it's virtuallly impossible to make an informed estimate of restoration costs for a car without careful due diligence and at least some partial diassembly.
Having said that, it's often possible to get part way there by by making some rough estimates and concluding that the restoration cost would be at least $xxx.
So with that preface, it strikes me that it wouldn't even be possible to "fix up" this poor car to a very low standard for less than $50,000.
To over generalize a bit, the market for most RS's in touring and converted lightweight configurations seems to range from roughly $70,000 to $120,000 or so, with more trades in the lower part of the range than the upper portion.
Since this car was built as a second series touring edition, my conclusion is that it would be uneconomic to buy it at the current eBay price of $35,000 or so. (And the economics obviously would be even worse if Rob is right and the motor is not original.)
Although the transaction volume is very thin, restored original lightweight cars are worth more, and sometimes considerably more. So, a lightweight car in similar condition might well be worth the asking price for this car, and, in fact, even more.
And having said all of that, sometimes other considerations trump simple economics. Sometimes a buyer with mechanical and/or restoration skills wants to pursue a project simply out of love for a hobby and quite rationally doesn't place an economic value on his time. And some cars are occasionally accorded higher values as a result of unique histories or colors (the latter being one of my weaknesses). Neither of those considerations seems relevant here.
Every car has a value. I'm just not convinced on this one at the current bid though.
The thing that has occurred to me as I have spent stupid money restoring and building T's and an S before I sold it. It costs just as much to correctly do the bodywork and paint on a T or an S or an RS. Doesn't it? Doesn't Gus charge the same amount to rebuild an RS pump as he does an S pump? Isn't the machine work the same price on a 7R RS case as it is on a 7R T case? Isn't $3000 for sport seats for a $30K 911S a bigger pill to swallow than $3000 for the same sport seats in a $90K RS?
It may not make much sense to restore this RS, but after the initial buy in, many costs should be the same as correctly restoring a much less worthy car. I'm just dreaming out loud.
Geogre,
Your car is great. If its roadworthy...althought with that rust who knows it would be great to see such an orignal car being driven.
I agree that a 911 shell costs the same to repair whether its a 74 911 or a 73 RSs series 1.My car will be getting new bodywork soon, if I can rationally work out the cash needed.
What bothers me is this 'odd engine number' business.
Am I too cynical to believe that anybody who has an RS sale would do a little research on what it is, and therefore discover a little bit of the importance these car have?
Once that's done its pretty clear that the matching numbers game has importance for these cars, or at least to have a correct spec' engine. If you don't is it genuine ignorance or deliberate ignorance....?
At that price its more a project car than an investment car...
wow, that must be one of the great 'barn find' stories around :D
George, that was a great read, thanks and keep the updates coming.....
i had a friend go look at the car on sunday.he offered $40,000.they bs about the consignment stating that they would have to check with the owner,as it's a divorce.couldn't get a stright answer out of them.they implied that the reserve on e bay was over $50,000.needless to say i passed.the car needs everything
I guess we should all start digging through our old leads on the RSs that we passed on. One comes to mind, an end of production Tourer that was wrecked in a race in Italy years back. I passed on that car for $20,000 5 years ago...........Now a bargain?? It is fun to dig up these crusty unrestored cars but you have to buy them really right to still wind up being in for too much!!
Best,
Don
In that case, the best way to buy this car is to let someone else restore it - then buy it during the next market downturn - fully restored - for $60K :rolleyes: .
Frank, did your friend give an opinion on the originality of the motor?
Great story, George. I can't come close, but I have a nice little story from the time I was restoring a '59 VW convertible. I needed original German bumpers, but for 2 years could only find cheap Brazilian reproductions that don't look correct. (This was before the internet.) There were old, dented, rusty German bumpers out there for hundreds of dollars, and I finally bought a rear bumper for $200 and then spent a lot more getting it straightened and chromed. But I still coudn't find a front bumper.
I went to an old VW mechanic to see if he had any old front bumpers lying around out back. He scratched his chin, and gave me the old, "sorry, man" look. Then he said, "Wait a minute there's a box up in the attic that might have a bumper in it. But I don't know, it's been up there for 30 years. Just a minute" He came back with this long skinny box with German writing barely showing through the dust. He opened it and took out a pristine front bumper. Like the day it left the factory. It even had a paper stamp on the inside that said, "Original Produkt". My heart was racing when I asked how much. (OK, it's not an RS, but this had been a long quest.) "Oh, I dunno", he said, "How about 50 bucks?"
The car went on to become a hundred point concourse car, and how I found the bumper is my favorite story. I used to make sure other enthusiasts would get down on their belly so they could crane their neck to see the "Original Produkt" sticker on the inside curve of the bumper. That simple little sticker somehow made the car special.
George,
Thanks for the link to your story, absolutely fanastic.
Not only a great story but a great car, my favourite car in the best colour combo (Flame suit on!)
Keep us posted on the resto.....I'd love to come and see the car when I next come over to Switzerland.
Cheers,
Silver
Okay which one of you bought it! Looks like they ended the auction early, about 30 minutes ago.
I cannot tell a lie;I did,the dealer called me this afternoon and made me an offer i couln't refuse
Frank, c'mon...let us in on the 'little secret...?" $$$$ ?????
Pretty damn smart!
- Get us hooligans to rip the car apart (as we do so so well).
- Direct seller to the board - to read what the "experts" are saying about the car.
- Now that we've scared the crap out of him, go in for the kill - while he's still in a daze wondering how he'll ever unload the "POS".
;)
Your just dying to tell us how much you paid. Tell us about your offer.Quote:
Originally posted by fg1227
I cannot tell a lie;I did,the dealer called me this afternoon and made me an offer i couln't refuse
Jared,
What if the one person from here who went in for the kill was...
tabs.:mad:
Congrats Frank. It will be interesting to hear of your assessment of the RS when it arrives. If you find that you in need of an original RS motor check out this eBay listing.
'73 S with RS motor
This '73S has RS motor # 6630120. I haven't seen it in person but he confirms it is stamped 911/83 and sent me photos of the serial number. Look like the real deal, but I don't have a clue how it runs.
THIS RS:
9113600141 6630120 7830128 viper green
Hmmmm..interesting.
I guess with 119 million miles, an oil drip or two can be excused. Someone has been trying to sell that car for quite a while.Quote:
Originally posted by fryardds
Look like the real deal, but I don't have a clue how it runs.
ckissick - Would be the ultimate irony for sure... but please do not say the "t" word again... shhhhhh.
Jared,
I thought I had seen this car for sale before. Clearly the only reason to possibily buy it would be for the motor. Even then it may need a total rebuild. Sure does look funny to see an A/C compressor hooked up to a 911/83 motor.
OK Jared, from now he will be known as "He Who Must Not Be Named".
Jared:
I was wondering when someone would comment on the 119 million miles. Geeez, by this time it probably needs a complete overhaul!! Wouldn't that affect the price?? :D
Paris TX?? I seem to think that this guy had another car that he was trying to sell when I started looking. Hmmm. I'll have to look for it. But for some reason, I don't think that it was this car.
larry
Has been on e-bay before, in the last six, seven months.
Looks a little odd, the long hood front with a post 74 back end....oh well.
I notice the wolfturbo was the higgest bidder, any one we know?
Rob (wolfturbo) is a regular poster here & on PP.
Memories.Quote:
Originally Posted by D Moran
Goes to show ya . . . an RS is just another way to get somewhere . . .
(And where are they now?)
Rick Kreiskott
Huh ??????Quote:
Originally Posted by LongRanger
Hey, Stacey . . .
Reading through this thread . . . all kinds of interesting stories --- about Frank Galogly fg1227 and buying 'fright pig' RSs on eBay, about 9113600193, Dr? GeorgeK lucking into a garage find RS ( in Switzerland!) for less-than-T-money, then selling . . . to buy 'a great house with a view of the Alps' . . .
Nobody kept these cars. Or even drove them, it seems --- at least not on these threads.
They got 'em, used 'em to get somewhere --- figuratively, maybe financially?. . . then moved on.
Different kind of transportation.
Rick Kreiskott
Rick, OK got it. And I agree 100% MOST OF THE TIME....
I do drive the crap outta my RS whenever I can....And my Slant Nose Turbo with 13K original miles which also has a 'call the police' engine....
Well I wish Rick C would show us what nice things he has done with 193. Pretty please. Rick you out there? :)
Raj,
Both of those Carreras do it for me. I would love to crawl all over each of them to see all the details. Both of them have some stories to tell and I would like to 'hear' them. But more than that I would to drive each of them. Oh yeah.:D
Good on you! . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Sman
Reading about The Deals from just a few years ago makes me wonder how long before all our toys become just high-priced garage art . . . or assets in a portfolio.
I know --- we all know --- that these cars have a value. I just hope --- for myself --- that the dollars don't get in the way of (or take the place of) the pleasures . . . while I still have the eyesight and the reflexes and the desire ---- and the gas --- to actually try to drive the thing.
Really? --- I want my Grankids to one day smile, take the keys out of my hand . . . then me say . . .
. . . 'Your turn' . . .
Rick Kreiskott
Brain, I just happened to run across this thread. RS #193 was shipped to it's owner back in October. Sad to say that I can't find my good pics. I'll post some photo's I call rejects as they didn't come out very well.
Sorry for the poor photos.
Looks smashing...... Rick we would love to have you join us on the RED Rally that passes close to your home base.
It is sad Rick cannot find time to devote his energy to something he'd be good at. ;)
Tom
I try Tom. I sure try.
I think the Red Rally went within 100yards of my gararge. I was probably in there working. The only car I have than is drivable is a 94 RS America with 30K miles. I don't know if I qualify.
It would qualify!!!!!!!
Gorgeous car Rick
...those pics under of the motor are sick !!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Cabell
Not wanting to implicate anyone to the authorities in public, I once was out killing bugs with a guy named Stacey and I was struggling a bit to stay in touch at 6000RPM in 5th gear .... a different Stacey in a different RS I'm sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Sman
So what does a beater RS in need of a total restoration bring these days? Looks like $35,000 back in '03 might have been a good investment.
+1 Curt.... very few was able to predict the future.
John
For God's sake Rick, get in the damn 964 and join us. Please. We will be mostly in the mountains of NH and Maine this year, with just a little bit of VT along the river. It would be good to have another person along who could reinstall an engine at the side of the road. :eek: :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Rick Cabell
Spectacular Rick! Great job. I thought you might have kept that one for yourself.:)
Are your restoring your rally RS yet? Thanks for posting up the photos of 193.:
Reference . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by fryardds
VIN = 9113600193
..............:)
Funny this thread popped up.
As we know this car ended up at Sloans for sale a couple three years ago. It was bought by a couple from Hong Kong, that has a home in Canada also. They contacted me in Sept. of 2013 as they have a daughter going to Middlebury College in Vermont only 35 miles down the road from my house. They wanted to come by and meet me. No problem. They want to see my progress on #987 also. Somehow the window of time closed up and it didn't work out.. Well, they tried again this year and the same thing happened. So next year I will plan ahead to be sure I meet them. They LOVE the car. It is in the garage beside a 964 RS, and a 993RS. Good taste in cars.
Brian, I remember so well the day George and I pushed the car out of that barn!
Is that George Valerio's yard? And didn't Scott St. Peter/Dick Moran own this one?
Does George posts here ?
Yes, occasionally, especially when he has an overpriced POS to sell....SORRY, I couldn't resist....:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by platas
Don't you guys notice the Swiss landscape ? No, it was owned by George K. He used to post here often, but not so much anymore. I think he is more regular over on the bird.
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...y-I-sold-my-RSQuote:
Originally Posted by Rick Cabell
One of the first/oldest threads that I saved/subscribed to, here --- now recently 'edited,' I see . . .
Found his car in a barn, chased + bought it --- just as values hockey-sticked . . . briefly thought about restoring it . . . then sold it --- to buy his house . . .
Given the current values --- of 1st-series RSs + Swiss real estate . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Cabell
Enjoy your choices
Yeah he (George) catches me every time I post something that is not 100 % correct. :o
Phil
Rick's post from 2011 regarding this 2004 thread unfortunately hits the nail on the head.Quote:
Originally Posted by LongRanger