270 Hp 2.7

At the Historic races in Laguna Seca this year I met a Porsche engine builder. He builds both, mild and hot street engines. And racing engines also.

He can build a 210 hp 2.0. Twin plug.

A 2.4 with 240 hp, single plug.

And a 2.7 with 270 hp with single plugs also.

He would not divulge any information to me. [speed secrets?]
I'm not interested in the 2.0 or the 2.4. But, I would like to know how can he get 270 hp from the 2.7. Granted, this engine would be a little to radical for street use.

So I'm asking what does it take to get 270 hp from a 2.7?


Second request: Since this engine would be too hot for the street lets whittle down some of the modifications and see what kind of hp can be extracted from a 2.7 and still be streetable. [even using racing fuel]

Regards,


-Markus

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Markus
So I'm asking what does it take to get 270 hp from a 2.7?

Second request: Since this engine would be too hot for the street lets whittle down some of the modifications and see what kind of hp can be extracted from a 2.7 and still be streetable. [even using racing fuel]

---

If you are talking 270HP at the flywheel, I don't think it would be too difficult. With a mag case 2.7, however, you would have to do a lot of machine work to ensure the case would hold together and allow high RPMs (shuffle pin, Timecerts, windage mods). Then add some 10.5/1 pistons, Carrillo or Pauter rods, Raceware studs, a hot cam, some head flow work with racing valve springs and retainers, Weber or PMO 46s, race headers, and then spin the thing to 7500-8,000RPM and you would be there, easy. With 10.5/1 and single plugs, you could run a 50/50 mix of 100 octane race gas and premium pump gas and avoid any detonation issues.

This is essentially a scaled down version of the 3.4 engine I just bought for my '73, and it makes 280HP at the rear wheels, which equates to about 310HP at the flywheel with the drivetrain losses figured in. You'd have to do this in an early chassis, though, 'cause it would never pass the smog tests.:)

TT

Here's a scan of the dyno sheet for my new (to me, anyway, it has been used for 5 hours of racing since it was built) 3.4 liter engine that's going in my '73 car next week. Just a simple hotrod motor with carbs, single plugged, and cammed for a fat torque curve and a 7000RPM HP peak:
http://members.rennlist.com/tweedt/3_4dyno.jpg
I'll be paying $3.50/gal for gas now, so I don't think long cruises are on the agenda in this car any more.

TT

Markus,
I agree with Tweed… 270 HP from the 2.7 should be doable.

A little historical perspective:

Towards the end of the second ‘golden era’ of racing (late 40’s - late 50’s) and certainly trough the third ‘golden era’ (60’s – early 70’s … my era) the basic rule of thumb for a normally aspirated motor in ‘race tune’ was 100 HP per liter at the flywheel. That was an engine that was expected to last at 10/10ths what ever the length of the race. And some of the ‘sprint’ engines (for the standard ½ hour SCCA races) would have a little bit more power then that. Of course these were engines that were ‘serviced and freshened’ after each race or two. Now that was 30 years ago, without the new cam and head technology we have today.

Obviously today that old race tune axiom has flown right out the window. You have normally aspirated ‘showroom’ cars with 2 liters that have well over 200 HP with the AC on! …
With the advent of computer controlled fuel and ignition systems and variable timing and intakes … it’s a whole new world… Of course the other side of that is when we open the hood most of us don’t know what the hell we’re lookin at.

Anyway,
Someone using the some of the old ‘tricks’ and know-how mixed with some of the new parts, technology and know-how can make you high HP reliable street engine that will do everything you hope for and more. Maybe not 100 HP per liter but pretty damn close to it.

Good luck,
Chuck

Oh BTW, most auto historians feel the 1st ‘golden era’ of racing was the 30’s with the Alfas, Auto Unions, and Mercedes’ …… 180 MPH on 5” tires… ‘IRON MEN and WOODEN CARS’... whoa

getting 270hp out of a 2.7? can be done but you are sacrifising the overall life of the motor, i can understand the nuances of the small displacement engines, the scream to red line etc, but it's a time bomb waiting to go off, why not just plug & play a large displacement engine from the get go? have great reliability, long service life, more HP for less $
my .02:o