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Thread: Yahoo article explaining recent pricing increases

  1. #1
    Señor Member John Binion's Avatar
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    Yahoo article explaining recent pricing increases

    Canepa & Stout get a shout out......

    https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motora...82212849.html#


    (Begin Article)

    Porsche’s now-iconic 911 will be one of the star models at a variety of auctions unfolding during Pebble Beach’s annual Concours d’Elegance week, Aug. 13-17. A glance at Mecum’s catalog alone reveals glossy photos of candy-colored gems from the early ‘70s, including two Carrera RS Tourings and a few late ‘70s 935 IMSA standouts.

    Expect the bidding to be fierce and healthy six-figures high, reflecting this air-cooled car’s growing status as a must-have collectible.

    “These cars have been undervalued for decades,” says Bruce Canepa, an ex-Porsche racer whose eponymous restoration and sales shop in Scotts Valley, Calif., traffics heavily in pristine air-cooled Porsches. “Even a few years back, you’d show up with a 911 race car at auctions and things might take a bit to heat up. But now it’s Katie-bar-the door time.”

    Canepa has a few explanations for the uptick in 911 values, which extend even to the latest air-cooled iteration of the model, the 1995-1998 993. “Many of them were driven hard and used up, so now if you see one that has modest miles, it’s worth quite a bit,” he says, noting that rarer models such as 993 Turbos, early ‘90s RS Americas and now-legendary late ‘60s 911S are particularly sought after by collectors.

    “I recently sold an RS America for $145,000,” says Canepa, astonishment seeping into his voice. No kidding, considering that the same car could have been snapped up a decade back for considerably less than half that amount. “What’s the appeal? Well, Ferraris still live on another planet. But I like to say that 911s are still the best driving real sports cars on the planet.”

    Longtime Porsche magazine editor and enthusiast Pete Stout recently declared himself “astonished” at the creep in 911 prices, pointing out not just how early 911s - which leaped to life out of Porsche’s groundbreaking 356 in 1964 - with the right pedigree have gone up tenfold in value in recent years, but specifically how a 1973 Carrera RS 2.7 fetched $1.4 million at Gooding & Company’s Amelia Island auction this year.

    “Are these 911s worth more than a million dollars?” Stout wrote in his editor’s note in the May issue of Panorama, the magazine of the Porsche Club of America. “Is this the sign of a bubble about to burst? While the early 911 market feels like a bubble to me, it has felt like one for years. Yet prices keep climbing.”

    Stout goes on to say that he is “shocked by 911 and 964 Speedsters priced at $200,000, (and) clean 930 Turbos selling for $35,000 to $50,000 a year or two ago are moving toward and exceeding six figures.”

    Keith Martin, longtime publisher of Portland, Ore.-based Sports Car Market newsletter, counsels collectors with a yen and wallet for an early air-cooled car to “skip the early S model, and look for a 911 (E or T) from 1969 to 1973, which will be half the price (of a $200,000 S) but offer 95% of the driving pleasure.”

    Martin is particularly keen on the early and mid-’80s 911 SC, which represented Porsche “becoming a real car; they were comfortable, lasted forever and can still be had for $20,000 to $35,000. After that, the 911 started getting very complicated, with all-wheel-drive and turbos. Those are magnificent cars, but what they can do completely outstrips what you can do with them on the street.”

    Martin’s view of the continuing air-cooled 911 frenzy is that “it is good for the marque, because more people will restore these cars, so there will be more mechanics dedicated to them and more parts. But it’ll be bad for most enthusiasts, because they just won’t be able to afford many of the cars the way they used to.”

    Canepa echoes that dual sentiment. “I think it’s great these cars are being appreciated,” he says, pausing. “But, honestly, some days I wish it wasn’t happening. They’re amazing cars, and I’d hate to see them just turn into show queens.” Editor Stout laments the possibility that “fewer (911s) will be exercised as intended, and many will disappear into collections.”

    Ultimately, Stout’s advice for admirers of the marque is to take a harder look at the company’s more recent water-cooled models, which can offer plenty of fun without the now-exclusive pricing of air-cooled 911s. “Early Boxsters go for as little as $8,000,” he says. “As early 911 prices continue to rise, Porsche’s water-cooled sports cars look even better than ever.”
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    # 2477

  2. #2
    Senior Member super9064's Avatar
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    Lets throw this question out there.

    Does the the increased value of your car make you consider cashing out, and pay off that mortgage, or does it make you want to hang on for dear life, because if you sell, you may not ever again, be able to get into an early 911? Alternatively, I don't give a sh*t about value I just enjoy driving my car, and don't give it a second thought.
    Rob Abbott

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by super9064 View Post
    Does the the increased value of your car make you consider cashing out, and pay off that mortgage, or does it make you want to hang on for dear life, because if you sell, you may not ever again, be able to get into an early 911?
    Depends how many you've got ? I'm leaning towards "if I sell, I'll never own another" because I'm a small time owner, but if I had 3 of those (or an entire collection), I might sell a few and use the money for something else. Not sure the "I don't give a #" attitude is entirely realistic. You have to insure the car for its worth so you are aware of its value when you park it (with its original paint) near a giant SUV's door, or when you start worrying about people nabbing your correct hood crest (it happens!!). Not entirely sure the article is fair to Pete either...

    I'd add another point... The early 911 is kinda of a sweet spot for me (and others). I love 356s, for instance, but at their current price IMO they have gone beyond where cost and "fun to drive" meet on a chart. The early 911s - T and E particularly - while slower than a modern minivan still deliver an attractive driving feel and enough performance and noise to justify the price bump. For now... The S is already in the same box as the 356 for me. At those prices I would have more fun with a Cayman GTS + 3 affordable oldies of your choosing.
    Greg.
    ----------
    72 911T - 73 2002
    #1461

  4. #4
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    We all care about the value of our cars - no matter what we might say on this forum. Some folks will cash out to pay the kid's tuition. Others might treat the 911 as a home equity loan. A whole lot of the early 911s are going to be properly restored. That's the upside of this booming market.

    I'm taking mine back to a more or less stock configuration. There are 2 reasons for this. First, a stock 911 is better suited for street use. Second, stock is where the value is. My car was one of the very early hot rod 911s. Greg Brown and I built this car for track days. When Derek Bell tested the car he said it was one of the flattest cornering 911s he had ever driven. The car was also really nasty to drive on the torn up roads in Pennsylvania.

    Michelin street tires and OEM sway bars have med it very enjoyable on the street. Even my wife likes it - sort of. I'm now putting all the sound deadener back int the car and installing original carpeting. A few years back I would have gone with the person. Not now.

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    Track cars and hot rods are a very narrow market. I want a wider market and I want to get back to a pleasant driving street car. Besides I have a couple other track cars that need to be driven a little more.

    Richard Newton
    Silly Tech Stuff

  5. #5
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    Living in L.A. I'm not sure I could pay off my mortgage if I sold. Besides, I'd rather enjoy my car. Way more satisfying than a paid off mortgage.

  6. #6
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    if your new to the game sorry but thanks!
    ... but it is fun to think Old unwanted slow smelly rust buckets SWB's are worth the same has late model Super cars now ,

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg D. View Post
    ...
    I'd add another point... The early 911 is kinda of a sweet spot for me (and others). I love 356s, for instance, but at their current price IMO they have gone beyond where cost and "fun to drive" meet on a chart. The early 911s - T and E particularly - while slower than a modern minivan still deliver an attractive driving feel and enough performance and noise to justify the price bump. For now... The S is already in the same box as the 356 for me. At those prices I would have more fun with a Cayman GTS + 3 affordable oldies of your choosing.
    I recently expressed a similar thought to a friend on the present prices as they relate to 'fun to drive' cars. When the music stops...and it will...the market will look at all these 'not really very much fun to drive' long hoods and ask...why do I have that expensive car sitting in my garage taking up space? As the herd begins to pick up speed toward the cliff with the attitude that every long hood restored is a six figure car...no matter how much fun it is to drive...there will be some big disappointments for some of these 'investors'. The number of long hoods that will now survive takes most of them out of the Pebble Beach category as collector cars, so their appeal will settle out as great vintage cars to own for their simplicity to work on, enjoy for their beauty, and probably mildly customize to fit an individual's desires to make it more fun to drive. But, this is just my opinion...
    Gib Bosworth
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Warm Tea's Avatar
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    F**k the mortgage !! I'm in for the drive!
    69 Bahama T
    S Reg# 2753

  9. #9
    My buddy has a 65 and RSA. He's planning on selling the 65 at some point but wants to do it when prices are on the crest, assuming that there will eventually be a "market correction". I'm telling him to do it soon, but he is convinced time is on his side for awhile longer. He also tells me that there is no way in hell that he would buy his 65 at today's prices, but will make a significant profit considering he bought the car a few years back. As a non 911 owner I would have to say they really are great cars, but nowhere so great to warrant the type of craziness in the prices they are turning over lately. Its good for current owners but I'd suspect if the bubble doesn't burst we'll be seeing a lot less of the early ones on the road, at car shows and in vintage racing. That will be a real tragedy.

    The last Porsche I owned was my 356 which I sold in the mid 1980's for $6500. I then looked at an early model 911, a Sunbeam Tiger and a Triumph TR8 all then selling at around the $10 K number. I bought the TR8 (still own it today) because among other reasons, it appeared to be the eventual best long term investment - last model in the marque, V8 engine, limited production numbers, successful competition history, etc. Tigers have gone up, 911's have gone up more but the TR8's can be had nowadays for about what I paid back then. Oh well.......

  10. #10
    I'm still buying. Probably for another 30 years or so. I plan on stopping then as I'll be dead.

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