Please help resolve a dispute about Bosch marking on turn signal lenses

[Noah]

I sold these lenses on the forum a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...-signal-lenses

Over PM I made sure the buyer knew they are OEM. And as I stated in the ad, the PO of my targa bought them new a year ago. I'm traveling and can't access the receipts on my car, but they were purchased as a pair, and as Bosch lenses.

The dispute is over the fact that the left lens doesn't say Bosch on it. Both have the exact same two lines of part numbers on them and both are identical in every way -- shade of amber, way the silver trim appears, fasteners, fit, etc. It's just that one doesn't have "BOSCH" raised lettering above the part numbers.

Because of this, the buyer sent me a threatening email saying if I didn't refund his money he would attack me here on the forum. I don't really appreciate this manner of attempting to resolve a problem, but put aside for the moment that the buyer is an asshole.

I'm wondering from the brain trust here -- are these both Bosch lenses?

[LiveFromNY]

The original Bosch lenses had the Bosch lettering and were made in Germany.

Later lenses made by Bosch did not have the Bosch lettering and were made in the Czech Republic. Still Bosch, just not as desirable. "Bosch-lite" I call them. This is from the nice folks at Sunset to whom I posed the same query. There are some who say that the CR lenses are not actually manufactured by Bosch but outsourced by them and then sold to Porsche. I have no idea if that is true.

[Hpt911]

I am the buyer of these lenses.
I just want to buy a pair of OEM Porsche USED lenses. I did ask the seller to confirm (see insert below)
of such.
If the lenses are original Porsche used parts , they are bought and paid for. Otherwise, I am requesting a refund for the items. I am not trying to waste anyone time here.

Is my email out of line, to be called .......

Thank you for your time.

Buyer PM to Seller

Good morning,
I am interested in buying the lenses. Are they for the 70-71 ? Are they Porsche original or reproduction? Any visible crack that does not show on pictures?
Thanks,

Seller response PM

Yes, they are for 70-71. They are Bosch OEM. No cracks.

Copy of my email to seller today.

Noah,
Received the lenses today. I am disappointed to see the left side is a repoduction without the Bosch letter. I would like to return the lenses for full refund or 50% off on price since the repro. is very cheap. I want to save the trouble going to the registry posting and file a claim with paypal.
Please advise.

[BrentF]

I can't comment on what was said in a PM discussion since that is between the two of you. I looked at your original ad. On that basis only, had you only posted the two pictures of the lenses and not the Bosch imprint close-up, I would say the buyer would have no recourse. Including a third picture of a close up of the Bosch imprint, as you did, would imply that the "lenses" (i.e. both) had the imprint, in which case you are partly to blame. I think a reasonable resolution of the dispute would be that the buyer return the one lens without the imprint and that you refund him half the money once you've received it.

[Noah]

I can't comment on what was said in a PM discussion since that is between the two of you. I looked at your original ad. On that basis only, had you only posted the two pictures of the lenses and not the Bosch imprint close-up, I would say the buyer would have no recourse. Including a third picture of a close up of the Bosch imprint, as you did, would imply that the "lenses" (i.e. both) had the imprint, in which case you are partly to blame. I think a reasonable resolution of the dispute would be that the buyer return the one lens without the imprint and that you refund him half the money once you've received it.

No, that would not be reasonable. They were advertised as Bosch lenses. They are Bosch lenses. If the buyer is obsessed about what kind of raised lettering the lenses have, he could have raised that as a question before purchase. But he didn't, and I didn't even look at the lettering, because...they're both Bosch lenses!

If the buyer can establish that these are not Bosch lenses, then I will happily return his money. But the problem is -- they are Bosch lenses. Both of them.

I can't for the life of me understand why the fact that one of them doesn't have raised Bosch lettering is possibly material in any way to the lenses. It sounds to me like he thought he was buying NOS lenses. But as I PM'd him, these are OEM, not NOS. Now he's bitter that he thought he was getting the deal of the century on perfect NOS lenses shipped to his door for $200.

[Hpt911]

As per my post I was not expected NOS. I was expect OEM used parts.

[gsjohnson]

No, that would not be reasonable. They were advertised as Bosch lenses. They are Bosch lenses. If the buyer is obsessed about what kind of raised lettering the lenses have, he could have raised that as a question before purchase. But he didn't, and I didn't even look at the lettering, because...they're both Bosch lenses!

If the buyer can establish that these are not Bosch lenses, then I will happily return his money. But the problem is -- they are Bosch lenses. Both of them.


I can't for the life of me understand why the fact that one of them doesn't have raised Bosch lettering is possibly material in any way to the lenses. It sounds to me like he thought he was buying NOS lenses. But as I PM'd him, these are OEM, not NOS. Now he's bitter that he thought he was getting the deal of the century on perfect NOS lenses shipped to his door for $200.

Noah, you are all wet. Take the lenses back and refund the gentleman. It really doesn't matter what the reason is. If he's not happy with them, just take them back. it's the friendly thing to do...and move on.

[Noah]

As per my post I was not expected NOS. I was expect OEM used parts.

And that's exactly what you got, Hen. Did you see the first reply above with the explanation as to why some Bosch lenses don't have lettering on them? You've decided that you got repro lenses without bothering to learn the truth, and now you're too proud to admit you jumped to conclusions.

This situation is insane. I've been in this hobby for almost 20 years and have never experienced something like this. Hundreds of transactions and never once a complaint. Hen has now initiated a dispute with PayPal claiming I misrepresented these lenses. Hen you need to do the right thing here and climb down.

[Noah]

Noah, you are all wet. Take the lenses back and refund the gentleman. It really doesn't matter what the reason is. If he's not happy with them, just take them back. it's the friendly thing to do...and move on.

The friendly thing to do??? He emailed me a threat!

[gsjohnson]

The friendly thing to do??? He emailed me a threat!

Maybe he did, but so what. Just do the right thing...