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Thread: a dark cloud.. with a surprise silver lining

  1. #1
    Senior Member HughH's Avatar
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    a dark cloud.. with a surprise silver lining

    A little while ago I started to hear an increase in the noise from the (915) gearbox in my 1973 911E. The car has done about 230,000 miles and had the gearbox refreshed about 90,000 miles ago. It has E cams but apart from that is basically 2.7RS spec with 2.7 P&C's, S induction, RS space cam in MFI pump etc so has a bit more Torque than a RS but probably nowhere near some track cars or big engine transplants.

    The noise was noticeable in 4th and 5th gear under very low load on the engine. any more acceleration it could not be heard and it was absent under no load or with clutch in. I felt it was a "final drive" issue just by the sound of it and how it presented although it was suggested it could be gearbox bearing noise.

    Anyway, bearing noise or not, I decided that safe was better than sorry and I should get the gearbox pulled down and fixed sooner rather than later. I was very surprised however when this was found:
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    So on last Saturday morning I was told that the pinion in the 7:31 final drive was in the process of self destructing

    That was the bad news (along with the cost and availability of a good 7:31 crown wheel and pinion to be available to get the car fixed any time before Christmas - or ever!)

    I did a quick call around a couple of contacts as did Mike who looks after the car for me (and delivered the bad news). Not very hopeful. I was told that one person here on the board (who shall remain nameless unless he outs himself) may have even laughed at the prospects of me getting something suitable .

    Anyway it seems like the Porsche gods were on my side for a change: not only had I caught it before it stopped working altogether and left me stranded (and no doubt done more damage) but someone well connected in the community rang me that morning about the same time as he had just been talking to a mutual Porsche acquaintance I had helped out with something in Europe earlier in the week. He said that he knew someone who may have a good 7:31 but also mentioned that people were remaking them but he could not remember who at the time.

    From that conversation I remembered that Albins gears here in Victoria made a whole range of Porsche related gears including crown wheel and pinions. However as far as I knew they only distributed their products offshore except for the things they make for the V8 supercars and similar.

    Then came the surprise silver lining. I looked at their web site and saw they made a 8:35 R&P set for 915's as well as 7:31 and others. I had not heard of an 8:35 until then and did some quick research as it is only about 1% different to the 7:31 in ratio and was about to file it away for future reference as I was still focused on a straight replacement of the 7:31.

    There was not much information around on the 8:35 but i thought I should have a look to see what i could find "just in case". I soon found that it had been homologated early on by Porsche and used in racing and especially rallying applications where there was high torque. I also found that it was much stronger than the 7:31 not only because of the extra tooth in the pinion but also because how the gears were cut (and a bunch of other technical stuff that I understood about 10% of). I also found that getting them from the US or Europe would be expensive (and time consuming at this time of year).

    Even better the person my contact said may have a second hand 7:31 not only had one but also had a direct link to the Albins factory and thought he may be able to get a new 7:31 and have it delivered direct to me. Albins were out of stock here on 7:31's and I was just about to buy the second hand (March 1973) 7:31 when I asked about a 8:35 instead. To my surprise he said that was able to be done with immediate delivery direct to me (and not too much more that the second hand 7:31.)

    So I have ordered that one and expect it to arrive in a day or so, and given the cost spent last night searching through all articles, posts etc I could find on the 8:35.

    I have only seen great things about it, but also there is relatively little information about it out there. I consider myself reasonably educated on these things and am surprised i have not run across this before.

    7:31's are known to have the weakness that has resulted in my failure, and I suspect that they now have seen 40 or more years service they are more likely to start to fail (even if people are not using a big torque engine).

    I have yet to get it installed, let alone use it, But i thought it was worth sharing this in the hope that it will help by providing an alternative to consider if people are unlucky enough to find themselves in the situation I was last weekend.
    Hugh Hodges
    73 911E
    Melbourne Australia

    Foundation Member #005
    Australian TYP901 Register Inc.

    Early S Registry #776

  2. #2
    Senior Member Harvey Weidman's Avatar
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    Please keep us informed. I am one of those waiting for the bad news someday....
    H

  3. #3
    Senior Member larwik's Avatar
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    7:31 vs 8:35 or 8:31...

    If you can't get the "stock" 7:31....Would the difference be too big between the standard (1975/6 and on)...8:31 to the special 8:35?..../ Lars...

    http://www.gboxweb.com/915specs.html
    Lars Wikblad...

    Early 911 "S" Registry # 527
    "R" Gruppe # 314

  4. #4
    Member #226 R Gruppe Life Member #147
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    Which carrier offset does the 8:35 gear use. early or late? Gled

  5. #5
    Senior Member HughH's Avatar
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    Gordon
    the simple answer is I don't know about all the technical details and it has not yet arrived. BUT it is supposed to be a straight swap into my current 1973 box. All that has to be done is press on the fitting for the mechanical speedo drive from the other pinion and fit it. I guess we will see if it is that easy when the time arrives. I will keep the board posted.
    Hugh Hodges
    73 911E
    Melbourne Australia

    Foundation Member #005
    Australian TYP901 Register Inc.

    Early S Registry #776

  6. #6
    Time Bandit Jens's Avatar
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    Hugh, I would love to have that set for the '82 915 I have to give me low gearing and strong enough for the hotted up 3.0 torque. Is that a direct swap too, I wonder.

    Zitronengelb R1012 the RatBasterd
    RGruppe #183

  7. #7
    Member #226 R Gruppe Life Member #147
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    In preparation for electric speedo and the switch to 8:31 R&P the ring gear was made thicker and the ring flange on the carrier was lowered a couple of mm. A mis-match of carrier and ring gear just causes a shift of the carrier in the side bearings. Installing a 7:31 gear on a late carrier + a 2 mm spacer restores the shift. A 8:31 installed on an early carrier leaves the carrier with offset in the bearings. The 7:31 of the 912E has the late carrier with electric speedo. Gled

  8. #8
    Senior Member HughH's Avatar
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    Thanks for that information Gordon. I will pass it on to mike who will be putting it all back together when the part arrives. I will let the board know about the outcome.

    Lars
    the 7:31 and 8:35 are very close in final ratio 4.4286 for the 7:31 and 4.375 for the 8:35. That makes about a 1% difference in speed in any gear between them. The 8:31 however is 3.875 which is about 12% different from the 7:31 which means all new gear ratios if you want to maintain the same gearing as with the 7:31.

    Jens

    i don't know about the later one. I suspect the post that Gordon just made will be relevant but until this one is together I am not sure if mine will need adjustment or a later one will. One will probably need some adjustment but both should work as I understand it. Time will tell.
    Hugh Hodges
    73 911E
    Melbourne Australia

    Foundation Member #005
    Australian TYP901 Register Inc.

    Early S Registry #776

  9. #9
    Senior Member HughH's Avatar
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    The 8:35 set turned up last week. it is a beautiful piece, especially compared to my current broken 7:31

    we will have to put in a few new bearings but thankfully all the gears and other assorted parts are in good condition.

    It will be a week or so before there is time to reassemble it but hopefully all will go smoothly. I will post the results and any tricks or traps we encounter along the way. The new part however does come with quite detailed instructions so that is an added bonus.

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    i also found the homolgation papers for this unit - dated 1976 - so would have been when the standard 7:31 changed to 8:31 and this 8:35 is the short final drive then just as the 7:37 had been previously with the 7:31
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    Hugh Hodges
    73 911E
    Melbourne Australia

    Foundation Member #005
    Australian TYP901 Register Inc.

    Early S Registry #776

  10. #10
    Senior Member larwik's Avatar
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    Just stumled onto this at Guard Transmission in Loveland, Co.

    http://www.guardtransmissionllc.com/...s/ring-pinion/


    Our ring and pinions are shorter and stronger than stock, increasing acceleration and power to the ground, reducing lap times. Our ring and pinions are a Klingelnberg Palloid design, just like the factory resulting in street car quietness from a motorsports quality part.

    GT3/Cup
    8:32 4.00
    8:33 4.125

    930 4 Spd
    8:41 5.125

    915 5 spd
    8:35 4.375

    Cayman S – Coming soon
    8:33 4.125
    Lars Wikblad...

    Early 911 "S" Registry # 527
    "R" Gruppe # 314

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