Restoring a 911 back to Original

[Milou]

" it doesn't cost more to get it right in the first place"

Over the past years, I've realized that most restorations are incorrect for lack of knowledge.

It would be great to post here, all the original finish on parts (with cutting off dates when applicable).

For example:

- when is the black paint no longer used underneath the engine grill. How about the wheel wells, or the underside of the front hood and engine bay?

- what is the correct finish on the engine parts and suspension, etc....

- what black paint should be used for the borders of the inner doors?

- what are the correct clips in the engine bay? Etc....

[pss]

great idea, looking forward to the learning!

[Richardnew]

The big problem is PCA judging. This should all be written down in the PCA judging manual. That would eliminate the political nature of PCA judging.

The Corvette judging manuals have all of this clearly laid out. Every bolt head and the finish is referenced. That's why it takes over 4 hours to judge a Corvette at the national events. I don't think PCA will ever replicate that format. PCA is more interested in rewarding people than they are in determining what is correct. Even the Mustang folks do a better job of judging than PCA.

Nothing will ever change in PCA. Did I mention that I won't attend a PCA Parade.

Richard Newton

[LongRanger]

Another thread . . . .
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...-original-cars

[StephenAcworth]

I think it would be great to create a document that catalogues the cut-off dates for such things as it is difficult to discern sometimes! Good luck, Thomas!

[edmayo]

The big problem is PCA judging. This should all be written down in the PCA judging manual. That would eliminate the political nature of PCA judging.

The Corvette judging manuals have all of this clearly laid out. Every bolt head and the finish is referenced. That's why it takes over 4 hours to judge a Corvette at the national events. I don't think PCA will ever replicate that format. PCA is more interested in rewarding people than they are in determining what is correct. Even the Mustang folks do a better job of judging than PCA.

Nothing will ever change in PCA. Did I mention that I won't attend a PCA Parade.

Richard Newton

Richard, while I'll agree PCA has its faults (I'm a judge so I may be part of the problem!) how on earth can you spend four hours judging a car and get a hundred cars done in one day? As a matter of fact, 15 or so years ago, when Dennis Frick was the PCR chair person, he organized two judging schools to try and get these judging points documented. I attended both schools, we hashed out and started to standardize what the correct details were for consistancy. Unfortunately the PCA hierarchy decided it was not a good expenditure of money,,,,,blah! I have also heard we are wienies compared to the 'Vett' folks

[BrentF]

The big problem is PCA judging. This should all be written down in the PCA judging manual. That would eliminate the political nature of PCA judging.

The Corvette judging manuals have all of this clearly laid out. Every bolt head and the finish is referenced. That's why it takes over 4 hours to judge a Corvette at the national events. I don't think PCA will ever replicate that format. PCA is more interested in rewarding people than they are in determining what is correct. Even the Mustang folks do a better job of judging than PCA.

Nothing will ever change in PCA. Did I mention that I won't attend a PCA Parade.

Richard Newton

Good parallels you draw with Corvettes and Mustangs.

Corvette restorers also benefit tremendously from publications like the two highly researched volumes produced by author Noland Adams entitled The complete Corvette Restoration & Technical Guide Volume 1 (covering 1953-1962 Corvettes) and Volume 2 (covering 1963-1967 Corvettes). Those two publications alone ensured Noland Adams' early entry into the National Corvette Museum's Hall of Fame.

Also Corvette owners benefit from a GM publication of the day called AIM (Assembly Instruction Manuals) that provided detailed 3 dimensional line drawings of every stage of the assembly process, along with associated part numbers and fastener part numbers. These individual sheets also contain specific cut off dates when the assembly process may have changed for given assembly and new part numbers or fasteners introduced. I am not aware of any parallel publication produced by Porsche?

Speaking as the owner of both marques:

[Sun888]

Hi

What about this thread here on DDK - seemed fairly comprehensive to me when I was trying to find out what to do with my 1970 E?

http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=37364&hilit=Richard+Targa+S

I put together a 14 page document for my workshop with info and pictures taken from that thread when I started the resto on my 1970 911E Coupe. I created this document exactly because there wasn't such info around and, according to my workshop, a lot of the work the guys had done before was based on hearsay evidence and on the preferences of the owners of the cars they had restored.

I'd be happy to share the document if there's interest - with the caveat though that as it makes liberal use of the pictures on the DDK stream I would have to get the ok from the guys there first. The document would be for 1970 only - and I am sure would have to go through a couple of iterations before being factually absolutely correct .... you've got to understand that as there wasn't any 'canonical standard' available I had to give some guidance as to what I wanted to be done based on what I (with my limited knowledge) thought made sense ... but, perhaps it would be a start....

[Richardnew]

Brent is absolutely correct about the documentation that's available for the Corvette. On the other hand it's all due to a group of dedicated people who really wanted to get it correct. Noland Adams was an inspiration. He not only wrote those two books but he was instrumental in setting up the NCRS. The we have Dave Burroughs who developed both NCRS and Bloomington Gold.

The really interesting thing is that Miles Collier and Fred Simeone will tell you that Dave Burroughs was a huge inspiration. I think Ed Mayo hit on the most important point though - the leadership in PCA really doesn't care. PCA is all about expensive dinners and listening to speeches. That's not wrong. It's what Porsche owners want.

A friend of mine put it very nicely. "Corvette judging is the best thing that ever happened to the car hobby and at the same time it's the worst thing that ever happened." You have no idea how many Corvette judges suffer from OCD. Also, the judging manuals have become a handbook for building a car. If you want to win national awards you must restore the car to the judging manual. I'm not sure that's all good either.

Ed - about the 4 hours. You're not allowed to enter a national event unless you have proven yourself at the regional level. That helps. It also helps that NCRS feels funding the judging schools is a top priority.

Richard Newton

[steve shea]

When I restored 356 speedsters I used the existing factory parts book for 1957 T2 era. Assuming the factory is correct, you can not possibly go wrong. Every ancillary assembly is clearly diagrammed with each part listed with a factory part number. Right down to the washers and their proper order of assembly. The issue was painted and plated surfaces, no reference there. If you follow the parts book and can get the finishes right you are good to go I think. Tom Scott who has restored everything from preA to early 911 might have a list. Then there is Harvey, Jim, Gary Emory, Bill Doyle and probably many others who know from a lifetime of Porsche experience and are familiar with the cars from new. Someone 'just' needs to do the legwork and document. I don't even know if there a similar factory book for later cars but it was my restoration handbook for 356A reassembly.