Value of original weber 46's

[kloberemt]

What value would you assign to a nice set of weber 46's? Italy of course. Was there any variation in the ones used on the 911 R? If so how would one tell?

Thanks in advance

[andyjboy]

Photos ?

Serial numbers ?

What condition are they in ?

What else (if anything) is included:

- manifolds (original magnesium or aluminium PMO version ?) ?
- linkages/crossbar ?
- air filters ?


.

[Olivier]

Last year a NOS set was sold (bare naked) for about 5k€
Recently, Frank Beck sold a set (don't remember if they were nos or not) for 6k$ (advertised price)
Last year a set was for sale @ 5k$
Recently a set was sold for a little more than 3k$. one was made in italy, the other one was made in USA. There was an air filter, stacks and some linkage stuff)

Depending condition, and ancilaries, the value goes between 3,5k and 5or6ks.

If you place yours in the lower range, please, PM me.

Olivier.

[1QuickS]

The earliest 46s did not have the external fuel galleries that were later incorporated for the high speed enrichment tubes used on the 911S which began to appear in late 1966. I believe these earliest bodies had serial numbers not beyond 100. The next batch did have the external galleries and also had two bosses for throttle stop screws on the ends of the bodies, the typical low one and a higher one that the IDTP bodies used for throttle stop screw location. I believe these had serial numbers from 101 to perhaps 250. Afterwards the progression circuit layout was modified. First picture shows the external gallery, upper throttle stop screw boss and on the bottom flange a port for vacuum lines. There are other features that evolved during manufacturing of the triple choke bodies such as: cold start features for the Ferrari 365BB & 512BB and reinforced ends to the fuel galleries to prevent their splitting during setting of the lead plugs. Once the mold for the body was modified it became the parent for all subsequent bodies. These casting revisions for emissions fittings and for the cold start features are to me like warts on the originals; the earliest bodies are clean & purposeful in appearance.



Top covers on the early 46s had 4mm dia vent holes and no vent pipes, also the pre-IDS top covers were a little different than those of the post-IDS bodies. The post-IDS top covers included a "bump" to clear the high speed enrichment nozzle used for those applications.



The 906s and 911Rs used the earliest variety and I expect the Sports Purpose 911s, 914/6 GT and the 2.3 liter 911STs used the second version.

Good used early 46s are hard to come by, they typically saw a tough service life. Plus the length of journals supporting the throttle shafts are 3mm shorter than for the 40mm bodies. Combined with higher loading due to the larger area of the throttle plates the load on the journals is about 66% higher than for those on the 40mm bores with associated higher wear rate.

[vintage 911]

Just to update input on Paul's information, these 46's have no vent tubes and are in the 300-400 # range. Terry

[kloberemt]

These do have the post IDS Bump on top. They are NOS 46 Webers, complete webers, no intake manifolds, no linkage, no filters. So these would be correct for a 911 R? How hard is the correct linkage and filters to find or will standard weber 40 items work? If I remember correctly the intake manifolds were mag correct? I will post some detailed pictures in a bit.

Thanks for all of the awesome detailed responses. I am interested in learning all I can about these, I am sure my pics will help.

Thanks gents, all your pics and info are greatly appreciated.

[1QuickS]

The 911R manifolds look like those on my home page photo:

http://www.performanceoriented.com/

Those carbs were restored for a 1968 911S, you can see they have the later coloration as OEM for that year model. The 911Rs were assembled from late 1967 through 1968 and did not have this coloration. Later in 1968 the throttle bodies had the upper throttle stop screw and the second batch of 46s also had these IDTP style stop screw holes although they were not utilized. The upper set of throttle stop screws were in anticipation of the 1969 911T that used IDTPs.

I restored two sets of "R" 46s for cars #11 & #20 and photos are seen on my "Gallery" page:

http://www.performanceoriented.com/i...or-1968-911r1/

If you look closely at the photos of the "R" carbs you will see the short throttle lever arms along with other subtle details as discussed in the Gallery description. Two modifications were implemented on those carbs for reliability and tune-ability:

• cylindrical (steel) throttle shaft couplings were installed in-lieu of the "folded-spring" couplings
• adjustable accelerator pump rods were installed to help dial-in squirt output, the short lever arms of the early IDA accelerator linkage components were retained

I believe all 46s with serial numbers were provided by Porsche for Sports Purpose applications and supplemental 46s had date codes that were alpha-numeric like "5C".

The earlier "Sports Purpose" Webers had a different progression pattern than the later ones:

• Early 46 progression holes were 0.80mm, 0.80mm & 1.60mm from bottom to top
• Later 46 progression (three hole pattern) 1.00mm, 1.20mm & 1.40mm
• Later 46 progression (four hole pattern) 1.00mm, 1.20mm, 1.00mm & 1.40mm

[kloberemt]

46 ida 3c1 d9 & 46 ida 3c 2m these are the numbers I see on the carbs.

Is there an additional serial number I am missing?

Thanks

[1QuickS]

The D9 and 2M are the alpha-numeric numbers used by Weber after Porsche stopped using Webers on their cars, these are "after market" carburetors. Webers installed on Porsche cars from the factory had serial numbers only.

The 46IDA3C & 46IDA3C1 are the model part numbers, there is no way to differentiate between early progression pattern and later pattern except to measure them.

The second picture is of the early (race) progression and the first is of the four hole (later) pattern. The later three hole pattern is spatially arranged the same as the four hole pattern except the third hole in the four hole pattern is deleted.

[kloberemt]

Thanks for all you time and information. It's greatly appreciated And I am glad to know what I have.