Porsche Storage- Radiant heated floor- Need Your Help

[Haasman]

I am petitioning our local zoning office allow radiant floor heating in the garage I am building.

Would like to hear all of the different pro's and justifications this group can come up with- and if you have any substantiations so much the better.

So far I am including:

-These generations of vehicles basically had no rust proofing, so any reduction in humidity is better.
-Radiant heating is ideal because of the movement of heat from bottom of the vehicle to the ceiling; helps move moisture away from the body of the vehicle.
-Radiant floor heating in winter can be a much more efficient way to heat a workshop.

I actually don't think I will be turned down, but in my letter I wanted to make sure I leave no stone unturned in my correspondence.

Thank you in advance,

[LiveFromNY]

I am petitioning our local zoning office allow radiant floor heating in the garage I am building.

Would like to hear all of the different pro's and justifications this group can come up with- and if you have any substantiations so much the better.

So far I am including:

-These generations of vehicles basically had no rust proofing, so any reduction in humidity is better.
-Radiant heating is ideal because of the movement of heat from bottom of the vehicle to the ceiling; helps move moisture away from the body of the vehicle.
-Radiant floor heating in winter can be a much more efficient way to heat a workshop.

I actually don't think I will be turned down, but in my letter I wanted to make sure I leave no stone unturned in my correspondence.

Thank you in advance,

Cause, you know, that's the government's business. Yet another example of why I left California...

Best of luck!

[mobius911]

I'd focus less on the benefit to the cars, and more on the benefit to the environment. Last thing you want is some planning person wanting to stick it to the dude with the Porsches. You're going to be working in the shop during all seasons and need heating. Floor heating is the most efficient. I'm sure you can find some references to support that claim.

Edit- just did a quick Google search and there is plenty of material. Here's one: http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...diant-heating/

[rattlecan]

Haasman,
If you are building a new garage, or remodeling the existing garage, Title 24 of the California Administrative Code that regulates energy consumption in the State of California may even be your friend.
Have your architect/engineer calculate the engery consumption of direct heat vs. hydronic or radiant heat. I suspect the later hydronic or radiant heat will prove to lower energy consumption over direct heat.
Direct heat (typically forced air) is not as efficient because it typically heats the upper portion of the room, at the ceiling first. Heat rises. Therefore, heat the floor, better ambient temperature at the 'human level'.
Probably more than needed to be said, but hey it worked on a project I'm doing in the bay area.
Just thought I'd share.

Rich

[Bob Harriman]

Check this out.

http://www.infloor.com/products/hydr...tems/concrete/

I have constructed many foundations with radiant heaters but as a concrete contractor for over 30 years I never had the chance to come back and experience the systems first hand until last winter when a client had me return some time later to do more concrete work on their ranch and I must say I was very impressed. They leave it on all winter rather than off and on like we do with forced air. If your constructing a new structure with a new concrete foundation and an engineer/architect to submit your plans for approval, I'm not sure why it would be questionable. Expensive though.

[Haasman]

Thank you for all the responses. This is great.

Any pertaining specifically to storage of collector cars would also be very helpful.

[CidTito]

A lot of what you are considering on the design of floor heating depends on the location, configuration and material selection of that said garage. Everything from number of windows, type of roof, amounts of opening all add to the factor of how the device might work or intended efficiency. First thing is first; at the top of my list, always consider the various options in having an automatic digital temperature controllers. Next, it is also important to keep in mind that there are various method of installations in which radiant heat devices lay on a concrete surface vs. if they are embedded into concrete. A nice solution might include having any supplemental hardwood, rubber or tile surfaces add to the ease of replacement rather than the standard embedding the devices in concrete.

[Richardnew]

Your goal should be keeping the temperature and humidity levels stable. Fluctuations in either temperature or humidity are the major cause of deterioration.

In an ideal world your collection should never get above 70°F and the humidity should always be between 40% and 50%. If possible, an even lower temperature is better for your car collection. Relative humidity should not be allowed to get too low though because you can damage the leather by drying it out. Generally, you should try to keep the relative humidity no lower than 30%. Some heating systems can bring the humidity to dangerously low levels.

You need to acquire some sort of monitoring system and build a data base.

Richard Newton
Saving Your Collection

[tomh]

While not aware of the entire code structure for the entire State of California or for that matter your local jurisdiction/code official, I can speak to Mechanical Codes and the ICC which California does recognize in many cases, those codes will not forbid you installing an in floor radiant heating system. What needs to be discussed is what system you are planning to use to heat the solution (water or glycol or a combination) there are any number of options here. You can use Geothermal (very GREEN) in a water to water unit or there are also triple function units available that will heat your domestic water, the radiant floor, provide cooling (and dehumidify), as well as forced air heat, you can use either a gas or electric boiler, gas or electric water heater, or for that matter even solar. Electric mats are also available but very costly to operate! All systems would require pumps, sensors (in floor) and thermostatic control, you can go as far as zoning the system if you wish.
As an HVAC and Plumbing Contractor I will tell you the options are many and the only thing stopping you is your budget, as you can prove thru Mechanical Codes, Energy Codes, Plumbing Codes and even Building Codes what you are proposing is not prohibited (if installed correctly, inspected, and tested)
I would encourage you to contract the project with a local contractor and that way you can lean on your Licensed and Insured Contractor to go to bat for you with City Hall!

As to Dehumidifying with a Heat Source the only way that can be accomplished is thru the use of a fuel burning device that uses the air inside the space for combustion so a standard gas furnace, water heater or boiler that does not have a piping system that connects directly to the outside would do this other wise your humidity will not be decreased.
There are a number of Commercial De-Hum units on the market (blown up versions of you in home dehumidifiers) that would cost far less than your in floor radiant system and are plug and play but if you need the heat source as well there is NO BETTER way to heat a space than thru your floor.
You do have other options for De-Hum but they all involve Air Conditioning systems that will bring your humidity down to very comfortable and acceptable levels that can also be tied to a heating system. A little more information on what your are needing and or wanting to accomplish would be helpful.
Hope I did not bore you but this is what I do and have for the past 42 years!

[steve shea]

I have had radiant floor heat in my place for 10 years with no problems. We are at 2000m in very dry climate but extremely cold, at times, and 50/60 degree temperature spreads common. The building has 2x6 framing with blown insulation. I leave the thermostat at 58 and do not touch it till spring. I have a digital infra thermometer and occasionally shoot the room from floor to ceiling. Amazingly there is only 2 or 3 variance. Stays in the low 60s. Really consistent and even. I move the cars a foot or two every month just to keep the tires even.

I work in there often in winter either on the cars or the family's skis in absolute comfort. I have a Buderus boiler and Taco pumps, all copper. It took a winter or two to 'tune' the zones. In some more glycol than others depending on exposure. The cool thing we did is not hard wire the pumps. Each pump is plugged in. That way if one goes bad on a below zero night, take one of your back ups and replace the pump in about 5 min. I have never had to do it but this a good way to go.

The floor heat is best if you put it on and leave it. In our house, on the same system, we use cast iron baseboards (Sun Ray). With base boards you can heat on demand and save a lot of fuel. The baseboards are very stout and radiate heat well after you shut down. We do have an extremely efficient wood burning stove ( Pacific Energy-Fusion) and Eco Fans for emergency if the electricity goes out. We burn about 7 to 800 gallons from late Oct. to springtime. Maybe 1200 to 1400 for the year and we run our hot water off the system. I might look into Rinnai for the water though, save more fuel.