Replica vs. Original Discussion

[alarson11]

It seems like many of these "clones" come from Germany. Below are a couple of examples and many seem to surround the historical cars of Kremer Racing. There obviously is too much money out there which causes someone to do this. Replicas are fine but when someone drops their integrity and makes claims that the replica is the original car is the real issue. Here are some examples:

Both of these RSR's have the original Jagermeister livery, but neither is the original Porsche-Kremer vin 0050005. One is an original RSR (2nd pic) that originally had the Jagermeister livery but has its history confused and wears the #54 Nurburgring 1000km livery and the second (top pic) is an exact replica. This clone even has the original chassis # stamped on it and claims to be the original in Europe. Which is which? How do you tell the difference? It is understandable how people can get confused.
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Here is another example of two Kremer RSR's. Can you tell which is the clone and which is the original car? There are subtle differences.
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How do we prevent or stop this on the future? How do we protect the identities of the original cars in this environment? Any ideas from the forum on this topic would be greatly helpful. Is there a way to identify the replica cars, without being slanderous? (As no one is ever positive about a car without actually inspecting it)

Does this topic deserve its own post?

[alarson11]

Here are some more examples. Both cars in the magazine article picture below have had discussions about replicas of the original. Can you see the differences between the two Vaillant cars pictures here? I believe one is the original Vaillant and one is a replica. Wallys Jeans is for sale now in Europe, but sitting due to concerns.
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Below, this Kremer 935 also has had questions with regard to it. I have seen pictures of the two cars that both claim to be the original.
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[72targa]

Original and current owner...

[alarson11]

Peter - you and i have discussed this before. Yes- this is an original RSR owned and raced by Eckhard Schimpf, but it does wear the wrong Jagermeister livery. This 54 livery was on the Kremer 005 0005 RSR in the 1975 Nurburgring 1000km. The Schimpf car did not compete in the 1975 Nurburgring 1000.

The original livery of this RSR, in the 1974 Nurburgring 1000km, looks like this:
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According to Eckhard Schimpf's book and his personal racing results, his original RSR never wore the number 54.

Although this car is not a replica, i shared the picture and original comment as the current livery on this car does add to the confusion with regard to "which is the authentic and real car" from the 1975 Nurburgring 1000km. I understand this #54 livery was put on this car over 20 years ago, innocently and before any internet research was widely available. But again, having the wrong livery only adds to the confusion on this topic of what is the real car and what is not.

I would humbly suggest that only the real Porsche-Kremer 0050005 deserves to wear that specific #54 number and livery, and that the Schimpf RSR wear a different version of the Jagermeister livery that is representative of it's own very important history.

Here is another pic of the Schimpf original RSR:

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[72targa]

One thing about it...it is a fun car to drive!

[alarson11]

Absolutely! Both the authentic and the replica cars are a blast to drive! And both need to be driven and shared. I just want to make sure that each owner represents their cars factually and with integrity. And I am wondering if the Registry members can share their ideas on how we can share our info and enforce this concept.

Is there a way we can expose only those "replica cars that claim to be the authentic car", through sharing the info that we have. Any replica car that acknowledges it is a clone has made a fair representation of their car and that is totally fine.

[rhegra]

And there will be lots more of these clones. Gunnarracing restored R5 at last raced as turbo RSR to its origin as Martini Carrera RSR, lots of photos can be seen at gunnarracing.com. The turbo RSR parts (fenders, doors, spoiler and a lot more) came to Freisinger in Germany and he "restores" R5 now http://freisinger-motorsport.de/pors...tail/9947.html with these parts and a new shell. And because the stamp "R5" is shown on the door, there will be two R5 soon. An early and a late version - which is the real one? The one with the original shell or the one with the original RSR Turbo parts?
But one of your Brambring RSR photos is from 1974 and shows for sure the original one. The two Brambrings of today are these

and

But I don't know if any of these two is claimed to be the original one or the owners just use this paint scheme because they like it...

[RennTyp]

I think R7 has the same problem....

[Schiefer]

Exact Replicas - how do we identify the replicas and protect the real cars?

Probably good to have a link in this thread to the register of RSR cars John Starkey is trying to put together.

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...911RS-RSR-cars

[928cs]

What defines a 911's identity?
- Stamped numbers?
- The front part of body?
- Papers?
- Everything above?
Or just the part that is the more difficult to fake?