General Suspension Question

[xpensivewino]

I'm in the process of restoring a 69 911 E coupe. The car will be driven as a weekend driver. I do enjoy a spirited drive and enjoy the twisty bits. My plan is to restore the car to original with the exception of normal struts. I will be running bilsteins and stock sway bars both front and rear. The question I have is for all those who have restored a car back to stock, if you had to do it over again would you have made any changes to the stock suspension to make it more enjoyable to drive? I have driven many stock early cars and find them a bit soft. Should I stick with stock torsion bar sizes, and or stock sway bar sizes? The car will not be for auto cross or track, just back roads and some canyons. This is obviously a matter of opinion so any recommendations based on experience, and or similar driving tastes would be appreciated...Thanks Steve

[RSTarga]

what torsion bars and sway bars do you have?

[Richardnew]

I've been there and back. i bought my 1973 911 as a stock car. At the time I was writing for European Car and we modified the suspension and braking system. We also did wheels and tires. We turned it into a pretty good track car. We even got Derek Bell to test the car at the track and he approved of everything we did.

Then several decades passed and I could no longer deal with the rough ride and the noise on the street. Sure it was fun for a couple of minutes but anything over 30 minutes on the street and it got tiring.

In the past year I turned it back into a stock 1973. The stock 911S sway bars went back into place and I put a great set of Michelin street tires on it. I then replaced all of the sound deadener that I have removed from the earlier venture. I once again love the car. My wife will even ride it again.



My feeling is that the stock suspension if great - if everything works properly. Your car was great in 1969. It can be great once again. You don't need to buy all those trick aftermarket parts.

My '73 is due for for front bushings. I asked two of the best Porsche race shops in the country what I should use. Both said I should stay with the stock Porsche rubber bushings. Any handling gain I might get from the expensive stuff would also detract from the ride quality on the street.

Richard Newton
Historic Racing Images

[a911s]

I would keep the stocks stock and go with 21/26 torsion bars.

[xpensivewino]

I would keep the stocks stock and go with 21/26 torsion bars.

My apologies but I do not remember off the top of my head the diameter of the sway bars, but I know they are stock for the era. So are you suggesting stay with stock shock absorbers, and stock sway bars, but run 21/26 torsion bars? Anyone second this notion?

[RSTarga]

I agree with Richard, the stock settings are pretty good for street use. I'd put elephant rubber bushings in if the originals are bad. Use the S spec 15mm front and rear roll bars. As far as torsion bars, I'd keep the original front 18mm and use the next size up 24 or 25mm rear. I changed out the front to 21 on mine and it made the front a little too harsh on our bad roads. The rear needs just a bit stiffer to keep it from squatting so much. These cars are so light that going to stiff makes them uncomfortable pretty quickly, that may be age talking. Im sure stiffer would be nice if the roads were German smooth, but that is not the case in my neck of the woods.

[xpensivewino]

great info guys..Thanks so much..this is very helpful.

[a911s]

You will probably not notice a change from 23 to 24mm torsion bar in the rear. Going from 18/23 to 21/26 with fresh stock shocks is noticeable but not harsh, unless there are other issues present. I would also recommend 18mm factory sway bars as a next step, if you are feeling adventurous.

[SD Swede]

Hi Steve,
I'll give you my recent experience, (recent as in finished the complete suspension build about 3 weeks ago on my '72T). It was absolutely money well spent. I had initial desires for my car that were basically the same as yours. I told my mechanic that I wanted, what he thought, was the best balance between a great riding, (aka: not harsh) street car, but a better than stock handling car that could be auto-x'd if desired. Steve Groskemper, suspension guru at Black Forest, San Diego, has set up about 100+ early 911's this way over the years. It retains a close to stock appearance and gives you handling performance that will be a pleasant surprise. After, it was a completely different car to drive, all in a good way. It's along the lines with what Randy mentioned above as well. Here is what we did...

In the front: New A-arms (74-89 versions) with Elephant Racing poly bronze bearings/bushings. Transferred the ball joints, aligning the A-arm mounts to the chassis to preclude binding during travel. Installed new 21mm E.R. torsion bars. Installed a 22mm sway bar (scavenged from a 911SC or a Carrera, can't remember which), not thru the body as stock, in order to minimize wear spots. Steve fab'd a new suspension protection plate to accommodate the path of the new sway bar and its position.

In the rear: Replaced the stock spring plates with adjustable ones (again, scavenged from a 911SC) with new E.R. poly bronze bushings. The poly bronze are worth the extra cost in my opinion. They are able to be greased in maintenance and will out live both you and the car, remaining silent as ninjas for good. New E.R. 26mm torsion bars. Custom installation of a 18mm sway bar (again, from an 911SC) by welding on Wevo frame mounts and modifying the end links to fit the early chassis.

We then adjusted the ride height (my preference) at each corner to basically sit as low as possible without having any rubbing, paint burning issues even during an occasional auto-x . Steve considered all factors, the desired ride height, my wheel/tire size combo, suspension stiffness, etc. He then also dialed in -1.4 camber for the front and -1.8 for the rear. At the end the car aligned and corner balanced.

Btw, my fronts are deep sixes and standard sevens at the rear (7R's on the way), all with 205/60/15 tires. This set up is not everybody’s thing on a narrow bodied car I know. As you mentioned, it's somewhat a matter of personal preference and opinion. I'm just letting you what I did, which was based on a suspension expert's advice, who knew I didn't care about retaining a stock set up. If you called Steve at Black Forest I'm positive he would speak to you about it and answer any questions you may have. Good luck with your suspension, I hope you end up with a set up that you are happy with. I love mine!

[Merv]

My 68 was pretty original all round, but I did fit new Konis on all 4 corners, an original front sway bar, new steering bushing, and chose the Elephant racing rubber front bushings to replace the exhausted front bushings. I also put new, stock, torsion bars all round. Last, Michelin XWXs are ready to go on. I am surprised by how supple and quiet the suspension is and how well it handles. Steering is as sharp as a tack and grip at the rear is excellent. Far better than I expected. The car is street use only and will stay that way.