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Thread: Original headlight Bucket 65 vs. 67 vs. 68 vs. Factory replacement

  1. #1

    Original headlight Bucket 65 vs. 67 vs. 68 vs. Factory replacement

    There is still some confusion with me about the headlight buckets.
    Which I need to use for my 303381 BY65 MY66 car one of the first with 2 screw horn grills.
    I have read some threads / see pictures / see original unrestored cars / restored cars with original and factory replacement fenders.
    The question is about the amount/position of the holes in the headlight bucket.
    And which configuration was used when? Because have been told there is a different between 65 / 66-67 / 68 / factory replacement

    Correct me if I am wrong:
    - Centre big hole for wiring harness
    - Left from centre small hole for the cable to go to the turn signals
    - Right from center small hole for the drain.

    I hope anyone can help me with a clear answer.
    Let me introduce you the different pictures I have taken and also the information that have been told to mee (can be wrong):

    1. Original restored BY1965 MY1965 front fender with 4 tabs for 4 screw horn grill / wide fender lip
    You see 3 holes (wiring harness/cable turn signal/drainhole)
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    2. Original unrestored 302180 BY1965 MY1966 front fender with 4 tabs for 4 screw horn grill / wide fender lip
    Can't see in the headlight bucket. The car was on Interclassic Maastricht. Have taken pictures in the front wheel arch. Here you can see 3 holes (pipe for wiring harness/hole cable turn signal/drainhole).
    You can see that there is a drain hole because of the rubber thing that covers the drain hole.
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    3. Original '67car front fender with 2 tabs for 2 screw horn grill / wide fender lip
    You see 2 holes (wiring harness/cable turn signal)
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    4. Original '68car front fender with 2 tabs for 2 screw horn grill / thin fender lip
    You see 3 holes (wiring harness/cable turn signal/drainhole)
    It seems that from 68 this was normal?
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    5. Factory replacement fender for 65/66 car with 2 tabs for 2 screw horn grill / wider fender lip
    You see 3 holes (wiring harness/cable turn signal/drainhole)
    Name:  Headlight Bucket factory replacement.png
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Bill Simmeth's Avatar
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    Your first photo, "1. Original restored BY1965 MY1965 front fender" is not correct. It is a later replacement fender (or perhaps an original fender and replacement light bucket?). The 64-67 fenders did not have the four tabs inside the headlight bucket.
    Only dead fish go with the flow.

  3. #3
    Bill,

    People have told me that the 4 tabs are for the sealed beam headlights.
    That Euro cars dont have these.
    But the main question in this thread is what about the amount of holes?
    Do you have a idea about that?

    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Simmeth View Post
    Your first photo, "1. Original restored BY1965 MY1965 front fender" is not correct. It is a later replacement fender (or perhaps an original fender and replacement light bucket?). The 64-67 fenders did not have the four tabs inside the headlight bucket.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Bill Simmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Winters View Post
    Bill,

    People have told me that the 4 tabs are for the sealed beam headlights.
    That Euro cars dont have these.
    But the main question in this thread is what about the amount of holes?
    Do you have a idea about that?

    Thanks
    USA cars 64-67 also did not have these 4 tabs in the bucket.

    The 64-67 USA cars used headlight assemblies similar to those in the 356 and Beetle. The four tabs appeared in 1968 when the USA cars went to the "sugar scoop" assemblies.
    Only dead fish go with the flow.

  5. #5
    Senior Member moito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Simmeth View Post
    USA cars 64-67 also did not have these 4 tabs in the bucket.

    The 64-67 USA cars used headlight assemblies similar to those in the 356 and Beetle. The four tabs appeared in 1968 when the USA cars went to the "sugar scoop" assemblies.
    some 64 i have seen had 4 tabs (#113,#134 both hyper original cars)...definetly no replacement fenders on them...they had the early indicator buckets as well and those are somewhat different to the 65...nor replacement bowls...the tabs are different style than the later tabs



    but this does not answer michaels question that i also want to have answered..also the number and shape of the indents changed
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    Last edited by moito; 01-15-2017 at 11:40 AM.

  6. #6
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    Late '65 build 912, 350943. In this picture, if you blow it up large enough, you can see the 3 digit ser # in the right headlight bucket, and you can also faintly see the two holes in the bottom, one which is larger for the cable and one which apparently still has the drain attached.

    My current car, 456311 (mar '66) has a single hole for the cable exit to the signals and no hole for the drain. I suspect that these were replacement fenders though (a long time ago as new replacement fenders) as they are very clean inside. Car was restored by a big Palms Springs shop in the mid '80s, no expense spared.

    SV

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by moito View Post
    some 64 i have seen had 4 tabs (#113,#134 both hyper original cars)...definetly no replacement fenders on them...they had the early indicator buckets as well and those are somewhat different to the 65...nor replacement bowls...the tabs are different style than the later tabs



    but this does not answer michaels question that i also want to have answered..also the number and shape of the indents changed
    Franz

    I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your theory about the tabs on very early cars. Those tabs did not appear until YM 1968 and at that time Porsche quit making fenders and headlight buckets without the tabs. I'll bet a PLINY that the red fender pictured in your post has a replacement bucket and they even went so far as to undercoat the bucket after installing it.
    The bucket in Michael's original post described as #3 and the 2 buckets in Sterling's post are the only ones that are correct for a pre 68 car. They only came with 1 hole besides the tube for the wiring. My pictures are of a front fender that we saved the front portion. It appears to be a replacemnt fender from a long time ago and I believe the 2 smaller holes were put there by a PO for some unknown reason.
    Bottom line: If it has tabs or evidence of them being there at some time, it ain't a 67 or earlier bucket

    Regards

    Jim
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  8. #8
    Senior Member moito's Avatar
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    hi Jim(hi Bob)

    even if it is very hard for me, i stand corrected...
    i was aware that 64 cars should not have them thats why i had a very very close look at #113 to detect any signs of a fender or bowl replacement but i did not find any.same for 134.

    but in this case trust your words(and bobs) more than my eyes.

    off topic--after a long struggle with the austrian customs i finaly got your parcel today---mug is in one pice and i will have my first EASY coffee tomorrow morning.
    will send you a pm regarding the extra webasto bit in a short.

    franz
    Last edited by moito; 01-16-2017 at 10:40 AM.

  9. #9
    Jim,

    Thanks for your post!
    It becomes a little bit confusing for myself.
    Because like you saw in my first post I have taken pictures of several kind of cars.

    Jim, just asking it respectfully, you are almost 100% sure of that all the pre 68 cars had the same factory headlight bucket like your red headlight bucker (without the 2 tiny holes) which was :

    a) without 4 tabs
    b) with one larger hole and one smaller hole on the left of the larger hole.
    c) no second smaller hole.

    So that the headlight buckets with 1 large hole and 2 small holes are for cars 68 and later?

    You can also see the embossed circles more at the top in the middle from the bucket and one just above the larger hole (this one you can't see it almost).
    Better view is on #3 in my first post.
    What were these 2 embossed circles for?



    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Breazeale View Post
    Franz

    I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your theory about the tabs on very early cars. Those tabs did not appear until YM 1968 and at that time Porsche quit making fenders and headlight buckets without the tabs. I'll bet a PLINY that the red fender pictured in your post has a replacement bucket and they even went so far as to undercoat the bucket after installing it.
    The bucket in Michael's original post described as #3 and the 2 buckets in Sterling's post are the only ones that are correct for a pre 68 car. They only came with 1 hole besides the tube for the wiring. My pictures are of a front fender that we saved the front portion. It appears to be a replacemnt fender from a long time ago and I believe the 2 smaller holes were put there by a PO for some unknown reason.
    Bottom line: If it has tabs or evidence of them being there at some time, it ain't a 67 or earlier bucket

    Regards

    Jim

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Winters View Post
    Jim,

    Thanks for your post!
    It becomes a little bit confusing for myself.
    Because like you saw in my first post I have taken pictures of several kind of cars.

    Jim, just asking it respectfully, you are almost 100% sure of that all the pre 68 cars had the same factory headlight bucket like your red headlight bucker (without the 2 tiny holes) which was :

    a) without 4 tabs
    b) with one larger hole and one smaller hole on the left of the larger hole.
    c) no second smaller hole.

    So that the headlight buckets with 1 large hole and 2 small holes are for cars 68 and later?

    You can also see the embossed circles more at the top in the middle from the bucket and one just above the larger hole (this one you can't see it almost).
    Better view is on #3 in my first post.
    What were these 2 embossed circles for?
    Michael

    I am never 100% sure about anything pertaining to Porsches, but I'm found to be right more often than wrong. I think the "embossed circles" are there to aid in the stamping process. Probably helps to stabilize the bucket in the die.
    It appears that buckets made after 67 all have tabs and 2 holes along with the tube. Up to the 68YM fenders there is only one hole along with the tube. I'm still searching through my pictures for a picture of JK's headlight bucket from his original 66 (made in 65) 911. I've got it somewhere.

    Regards

    Jim

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