M codes - Carrera RS. Info please

[nickd]

Country code C16 - England RHD lists several M codes , and I've scoured the new edition of the bible and I do not see 20, 61, 123 & 483 ...... Anyone able to throw some light on these ??

I did spot a wee typo on page 213 - should be M258 not M528

PLUS ......

Who was the person who refused to let Brumos borrow a windshield for the winning car #328 at Daytona ? (Page 289 first column second para). Who did give theirs up ?

And 10,000 bucks to wash and polish #328 before it crossed the line !!! No wonder Gregg 'inclinded' the offer - probably should have read 'inclined a finger! '. (Page 289 second column second para)


The new edition is a bloody good read ...... BTW

[nickd]

From a search on Porsche M codes - found this site http://www.lufteknic.com/legacy/info/m_codes.html - and it offers a good steer ...

M20 - MPH Speedo
M61 - UK Version ?
M123 - ??
M483 - RHD

[gulf908]

Steve

You are probably on the right track saying some M codes relate to the UK licensing regulations and others relate to the importers requirements.
Some of your DMV requirements may have been 'bundled' together temporarily and Porsche Cars GB's ordering M number subsequently deleted or recycled.
I am just educated guessing here but I know there was a separate BS number for the seat belts and there may have been other very minor UK only regulations that are well and truly forgotten by now.
The use of the Durant mirror may have been another 'temp' M number.
Another example was the steel tank / full size tyre - I believe this was because of the UK regulation of having two wheels of the same size / diameter on the one axle - the 5.5" space saver did not meet this rule.
I believe the steel tank on the Scandinavian RSs was due to their sometimes poor road quality. - someone from 'up north' may be able to clarify this for us.
The importers marketing requirements no doubt would have been different - the UK RSs were specced up but the Italian RSs were very basic by comparison.
Starting with the 2.2s in late 1969,Porsche Cars GB ordered their E and S models with tinted glass,rear wiper and electric windows as well as the S trim pack on the T models.
If I was looking at a UK delivered RS,I would expect to see these options as a group option.
Can the Porsche Club GB RS registrar throw any light on this through his records ?

No definate answers but a little background info !

HTH
Dennis

[911MRP]

Thanks Dennis
What you say is probaly why some Mxxx numbers despite evidently being used are now off the normal decoding grid.

To your point I agree, a set of M numbers were likley a pragmatic way of managing options and variants by internally bundling things under code for region or model etc; how the factory, importers and dealers coped with product and market complexity particularly in days of paper and basic computer long before PLM technology helped manage product BoM config. Essentially M471, M472 , M492 are example just that -- a way of managing the limited edition homologation variant 911 744 S C. In that case however the numbers became widely adopted and sometimes misunderstood by end customers.

I'm already working closely very with PCGB RS Register Secretary on another project so in we are in daily correspondence -- I'll ask what info he has on this topic.

Also I'll ask the PCGB pre 73 register secretary as these things may well have been applicable for all 911 in MY 73 for UK but just got documented in the RS Book due to author's detailed factory digging.

While window tint all round and dual heated rear set up was definitely standard for ES here in UK by then ( I have the MY price list and UK document that shows this standard spec set out in a table) the RS model here did not get rear wiper as standard, so M472 varied from equivalent UK S in that regard unless owner specified it as an M option. Probably due to the different ducktail lid design and material. Also windscreen on early RS varied.

Thanks for the info. My request in restarting this thread is to to see if anyone has any of the "hidden" internal use Mxxx numbers explained.

For example HGO's aside in another thread was helpful that M464 = steel tank but not a "real" option. It makes a lot of sense in context of this UK DMV 73 spare wheel ruling.

Constantly amazes me what folks here know and importantly often even have backup proof of among their literature and old history paperwork -- we are tantalisingly close.

Facts and documented references from circa 72/3 that tell us what M123, M464, M486 meant anyone?


Steve

PS from a quick visual scan the Australia list of country options looks to be the longest set in the whole RS country table so maybe you guys win the highest specified nation award for RS for those less than two handfuls of RS that were ordered

[HughH]

Steve
I think that thinking about M codes as "options" is misleading. They do define certain options fitted. However I think the better way to think about them is "choices" in specification , not options. Options are only shown as separate items when they are not a "standard item". However what is or is not a standard item depends on model specification as well as country importer "standard specifications". The latter two types of " part choices" are not shown on order documentation as they are not "optional equipment".

For example my 1973 Australian spec 911E has the plastic tank, S gauges, S trim etc but NONE of the codes for those items are shown on the "options list" as they were specified for all 1973 MY 911E's ordered from Australia. However I understand that South African 911E's for that year were not specified with the S trim etc as standard that year so came with T trim unless specially optioned. So for a South African car the existence of S gauges, trim etc would be shown on the options list. In the same vein my car has an extended hub steering wheel that IS shown on the options list as it was not standard order for Australian cars.

So we need to think of all the M numbers as choices that need to be made in constructing a car where there are different choices available: Seats, suspension, radio choice, wheels, fuel tank, trim, lights, etc all have different choices of either quality, supplier performance level or use. Any one of those may be options for some markets and standard for others.

There are two types of "country" groupings as far as i see it. One the Country code (C and a number) almost certainly relate to legislated items for a specific country - ie LHD, RHD, Kph / MPH ,emissions, yellow or white headlights, language used on stickers or instruments or in the case of Japan the red lines on the speedometer, , mirror types, seat belt options etc. The other grouping will be a minimum standard that the importer want s all cars ordered with such as my E with S trim etc. That probably has another generic code although I am not sure what it is and expect it to be different from one years to the next and for one type of car to another ie in the case of Australia the E's would have a different code to T's and S's and RS's for the 1973 MY.

Therefore a lot of the unexplained or unknown codes are likely to relate to a part that is usually bundled up either in a country code or a generic importer code and I would assume also in the spec for a different car model. From the codes that I have been able to see source documents on some relate to 914's and 916's which obviously are not used in 911's - ie M652 is for intermittent wipers on a 914 - something that all 911's have as standard.

in the same vein it would appear that sporto's sometimes had different M codes for some things (to cater for their differences) but these would not necessarily be called out. I believe that while a coupe has M470 for the "appearance group" option of S trim etc, the appearance group code for a sporto may be M466 - at least that is how I have seen it described in a factory document.

Also I have seen reference to M640 being for undercoating. I would have thought that all production cars would have this as standard but competition cars may have M640 delete.

In addition every potential stock combination of items seems to have its own M number. There are different ones for retractable antenna left and loudspeaker (M440) and just retractable antenna left (M490), let alone for the power antennas.

To see how this works in practice I have seen cars with RHD but delivered in Germany or another LHD country for initial use on the continent. So such a car would have RHD called out, almost certainly the compliance option code for the country that it was supposed to end up in (two of the cars I know about were UK spec cars) BUT it would have had a code for headlights to be for LHD cars as the car was to be used in Europe. One such car I have seen the build sheet has the headlight change in handwriting but not an option code against it. However I have also seen a code M492 "headlamps for left hand traffic" which I would think was normally bundled up in a generic country code.

So it has not helped with your codes but i hoped added something other than more confusion. ......... and we have not started on Z codes yet :-)