brass bezel on ignition lock without steering lock

[pss]

On behalf of PreS and myself, starting this thread.

I never saw a brass/bronze bezel that actually fitted the ignition without steering lock (901 613 101 10). The right bezel for that is 901 613 191 10 according to the parts catalogue, but it does not say what material obviously ....

Does that not exist in bronze? Was the bronze (901 613 191 00) only delivered in Europe with the steering lock (901 613 101 00)?

Who has a car with a brass bezel without steering lock?

[NeunElf]

I can't prove anything, but I thought that all the really early cars--even those headed for the USA--had ignition locks and had the small brass (or bronze) bezel. My car has a steering lock and a small brass ignition lock bezel. But, my car was delivered in Germany although it was probably intended to go to America. It had English units on the gauges and those gauges had May '65 date stamps.

Brett Johnson's The 911 & 912 Porsche: A Restorer's Guide to Authenticity says that the small brass bezel only came with the steering lock ignition.

On the other hand, Brett Johnson says American cars had non-steering lock ignition switches from the beginning, as did cars with the steering on the right.

Every '65 911 I've seen has the small brass bezel on the ignition switch. I haven't asked all the owners if they had steering locks.

Peter Morgan's Original Porsche 911 has photos of a slate grey 1965 with red leather and right-hand steering. Brett Johnson says the right-hand drive cars didn't have steering locks and the parts books show steering locks only for left-hand drive cars. That right-hand drive 1965 911 has the small bezel but the bezel's black. I might have heard that the brass (or bronze) bezels were originally blackened.

The closest I have to an original source is an English-only brochure printed in Germany in April 1965. It might have been intended for American buyers (it does give fuel capacity as 15.5 US gal) and it says 911's had steering lock ignition switches:

[preS]

I might have heard that the brass (or bronze) bezels were originally blackened.

It definitely is more consistent for the dash layout. Another point to look further into.

Thanks

Richard

[NeunElf]

I did a little more looking for contemporary sources. About a year ago, "haul" posted Auto Motor und Sport 23.01.1965 Test 911 with translation to the "General info" forum and the 23 Jan 65 Auto Motor und Sport test had a photo of a 911 interior:



My best guess is that that ignition switch bezel is brass (or bronze) color.

[Ivan Fuller]

This is interesting, I read all I could find about this last year and came to the conclusion or it seemed the consensus that all US cars had brass bezels and by default steering locks (as the threads are different). Therefore I must have a later switch fitted. Now we have a couple of well informed comments suggesting early 65 had plastic small bezels. (After I went out procured locking switch and bezel) 301022... (I'll be digging into it soon to really see whats going on).

[pss]

From the thread '1964 features on early 1965 cars' we know that MY1965 cars had the brass bezel. Your post 2 research confirms that the same group had the steering lock.
This, on top of Ivan's conclusion from other investigations he did, I guess that leaves me to conclude that all MY1965 cars had the steering lock with brass bezel and since none of us ever came across a brass bezel on any 911 without a steering lock, I would believe that they just do not exist. Thanks for solving that.

Then on the color.
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...-nos-911-parts This suggests indeed that they were blackened, but I agree that Haul's picture indicates otherwise and is possibly the best reference, although the one on the picture in the standard equipment excerpt of Jim seems more black than shiny. I must say that most bezels I have seen all had some black paint remains on them. But.....why the heck would you make this out of blackened brass if the bezels of the switches was plastic? I guess not to avoid scratches as brass also is vulnerable and especially if it was painted it does not make sense.

[preS]

From the thread '1964 features on early 1965 cars' we know that MY1965 cars had the brass bezel. Your post 2 research confirms that the same group had the steering lock.
This, on top of Ivan's conclusion from other investigations he did, I guess that leaves me to conclude that all MY1965 cars had the steering lock with brass bezel and since none of us ever came across a brass bezel on any 911 without a steering lock, I would believe that they just do not exist. Thanks for solving that.

K 300 series are non locking
FL series are locking

It would be an easy check to see if all MY 65 cars had a locking ignition switch since they should have a FL key.

Richard

[pss]

Hmm, I have no keys to my cars, can you send pics?

[haul]

i am curious,
could s.o please have a look in the drivers manuals, the pics of the dashboard?
what is pictured in the early 64 and 65 manuals, as in the III/65 912 version already large bezels are used.

the find of #57 has brass bezel
http://www.autobild.de/klassik/bilde...74.html#bild10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgtunezHulc

the official porsch rebuilt of #134 does have the small brass bezel, and is reused in the rebuilt.
if original or not . . ???!

and yes, lock type 22715 with keyset 3** is non locking and was also used in previous cars

[Jim Breazeale]

Brass bezels fit locking early ROW ignition switches.
Plastic bezels fit non locking ignition switches.
Study the differences.