Headlight/wing help needed.

[Kris Clewell]

Hey guys! Relayed my headlights and installed some driving lights. I accidentally touched the signal from the switch to the headlights to ground, and now I have no signal at what is essentially the fuse on the fuse box. I'm using fuses on relays. Either way, I have no voltage to turn the relays on. I also have no bright lights are on indicator on the tachometer. I split the signal for the headlights and driving lights. High beam left goes to driving lights, right to the headlights. I just have no signal from those wires to turn the relays on. I took the column switch out and visually it is clicking back and forth okay? What else should I be looking for? Also to note, this switch is terrible, as are the wiring diagrams I found online to investigate. Any input is greatly appreciated.

My garage keyboard sucks, my apologies for misspellings/grammar errors.

edit: I know the relays are wired correctly due to my jumpering the signal input to the relay to turn the headlights and driving lights on.

[NeunElf]

Hey guys! Relayed my headlights and installed some driving lights. I accidentally touched the signal from the switch to the headlights to ground, and now I have no signal at what is essentially the fuse on the fuse box. I'm using fuses on relays. Either way, I have no voltage to turn the relays on. I also have no bright lights are on indicator on the tachometer. I split the signal for the headlights and driving lights. High beam left goes to driving lights, right to the headlights. I just have no signal from those wires to turn the relays on. I took the column switch out and visually it is clicking back and forth okay? What else should I be looking for? Also to note, this switch is terrible, as are the wiring diagrams I found online to investigate. Any input is greatly appreciated.

I'm a little confused by your description. You wrote "no signal at what is essentially the fuse on the fuse box." from which I infer that you may be inserting the relay on the unprotected side of the fuse and keeping the original fuse in the circuit from the relay to the lights for protection (which is how I added relays to my 911).

You also wrote "I'm using fuses on relays." from which I suspect your using relays with fuses like these popular Hella relays:

I used something like this in my 356A.

I'm confused because if I've made both inferences correctly you have more fuses than you need.

If I'm correct about those inferences, and I'm reading the wiring diagram correctly (and SL33 applies to your car) then there's no fuse between where you short-circuited to ground and the battery. You probably fried a switch contact, maybe a connector (or maybe melted a wire, but even in a short circuit wires don't melt fast).

If you've taken the signal to operate the relays from the protected side of the fuses in the fusebox you've probably just blown a fuse, but that's so easy to fix I doubt you would have missed it.

The final possibility is that when you short circuited it you got scared (I sure jump when that happens) and pulled a wire lose.


Anyway, the way to diagnose all this is to get a voltmeter or a circuit tester and work backwards from the wire you're using as input to the relay and look for places things work:

1. check the output from the turn signal/flasher switch on the steering column
2. check the output from the headlight switch on the panel beside the ignition switch
3. check that you get power into the headlight switch.

I hope you don't have to replace a switch.

[RSTarga]

I don't understand what you mean by splitting the signal between headlights and driving lights. The driving lights, (or fogs), should be on their own circuit with a relay. The headlights are on 2 other circuits, high and low beam, each should have a relay.
The easiest way is to use your fog light circuit for the driving lights. Substitute the driving lights for the fogs.
Always disconnect the battery when working on the wiring to avoid accidental shorts.

[Kris Clewell]

I just meant I split the high beam left to the high beams, and the high beam right to the driving lights. Each has its own relay. Its the blue one depicted above. I was going to do the fog light route but a previous owner seems to have fucked that up for me.

I need a good diagram to check the switch. I havent been able to find anything. I can see it mechanically clicking back and forth...visually it looks fine... other than looking like it was designed in a nazi bunker.

[NeunElf]

You may already have the standard Porsche wiring diagrams--if not you can download them from http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars/WiringDiag.htm.

You can also find the standardized Bosch Terminal Designations on the Internet. Here it is, but the forum software will annihilate the formatting:

From Bosch Automotive Handbook, 3rd edition

Terminal Designations (Excerpts from DIN Standard 72 552)
The terminal designations do not identify the conductors, because device
with different terminal designations can be connected at the two ends of
each conductor. If the number of terminal designations is not
sufficient (multiple-contact connections), the terminals are
consecutively numbered using numbers or letters whose representations
of specific functions are not standardized.

Terminal Definition
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........IGNITION
1.........Ignition coil, ignition distributor, low voltage
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........(Ignition distributor with two separate electrical circuits)
1a........to ignition contact breaker I
1b........to ignition contact breaker II
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
2.........short-circuit terminal (magneto ignition)
4.........Ignition coil, ignition distributor, high voltage
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........(ignition distributor with two separate electrical circuits)
4a........from ignition coil I, terminal 4
4b........from ignition coil II, terminal 4
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
15........Switched + downstream of battery
...........(output of ignition/driving switch)
15a.......Output at dropping resistor to ignition coil and starter
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........GLOW PLUG AND STARTER SWITCH
17........Start
19........Preheat
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........BATTERY
30........input from + battery terminal, direct
30a.......input from + terminal of battery II
...........(12/24 V series-parallel battery switch)
31........Return line to battery
...........- battery terminal or ground, direct
31b.......Return ine to negative battery terminal or ground, via switch
...........or relay (switched negative)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........(12/24 V series-parallel battery)
31a.......Return line to - terminal of battery II
31c.......Return line to - terminal of battery I
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........ELECTRIC MOTORS
32........Return line
...........(Polarity reversal possible at terminals 32-33)
33........Main terminal connection
...........(Polarity reversal possible at terminals 32-33)
33a.......Self-parking switch-off
33b.......Shunt field
33f.......For second lower-speed range
33g.......For third lower-speed range
33h.......For fourth lower-speed range
33L.......Counterclockwise rotation
33R.......Clockwise rotation
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........STARTER
45........Separate starter relay, output; starter input (main current)
45a.......Output, starter I
...........Input, starters I and II (Two-starter parallel operation)
45b.......Output, starter II.......(Two-starter parallel operation)
48........Terminal on starter and on start-repeating relay for
...........monitoring starting procedure
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........TURN SIGNAL FLASHER
49........Input
49a.......Output
49b.......Output, second turn-signal circuit
49c.......Output, third turn-signal circuit
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........STARTER
50........Starter control (direct)
50a.......Output for starter control
...........(Series-parallel battery switch)
50b.......Starter control with parallel operation of two starters with
...........sequential control
50c.......Input at starting relay for starter I
...........(Starting relay for sequential control of the engagement
...........current during parallel operation of two starters)
50d.......Input at starting relay for starter I
...........(Starting relay for sequential control of the engagement
...........current during parallel operation of two starters)
50e.......Input, Start-locking relay
50f.......Output, Start-locking relay
50g.......Input, Start-repeating relay
50h.......Output, Start-repeating relay
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........ALTERNATOR
51........DC voltage at rectifier
51e.......DC voltage at rectifier with choke coil for daytime driving
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........TRAILER SIGNALS
52........Signals from trailer to towing vehicle, general
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........WIPER MOTOR
53........Wiper motor, input (+)
53a.......Wiper (+), self-parking switch-off
53b.......Wiper (shunt winding)
53c.......Electric windshield-washer pump
53e.......Wiper (brake winding)
53i.......Wiper motor with permanent magnet and third brush (for higher
...........speed)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........TRAILER SIGNAL
54........For lamp combinations and trailer plug connections
...........TRAILER STOP LAMP
54g.......Pneumatic valve for additional retarding brake,
...........electromagnetically actuated
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........LIGHTING
55........Fog lamps
56........Headlamp
56a.......High beam, high-beam indicator lamp
56b.......Low beam
56d.......Headlamp-flasher contact
57........Side-marker lamp: motorcycles, mopeds.
...........Abroad also cars, trucks, etc.
57a.......Parking lamp
57L.......Parking lamp, left
57R.......Parking lamp, right
58........Side-marker lamps, tail lamps, license-plate lamps and
...........instrument-panel lamps
58b.......Tail-lamp changeover for single-axle tractors
58c.......Trailer plug-and-receptacle assembly for single-conductor
...........tail-lamp cable with fuse in trailer
58d.......Variable-intensity instrument-panel lamp, tail-lamp and
...........side-marker lamp
58L.......Side-marker lamp, left
58R.......Side-marker lamp, right; license-plate lamp
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........ALTERNATOR (magneto, generator)
59........AC voltage, output
...........Rectifier, input
59a.......Charging armature, output
59b.......Tail-lamp armature, output
59c.......Stop-lamp armature, output
61........Alternator charge-indicator lamp
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[NeunElf]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........TONE-SEQUENCE CONTROL DEVICE
71........Input
71a.......Output to horns 1 & 2, low
71b.......Output to horns 1 & 2, high
72........Alarm switch (rotating beacon)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........INTERIOR
75........Radio, cigarette lighter
76........Speaker
77........Door-valve control
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........SWITCHES
----------(Break-contact and changeover switches)----------------------
81........Input
81a.......1st output, break side
81b.......2nd output, break side
----------(Make-contact switches)--------------------------------------
82........Input
82a.......1st output
82b.......2nd output
82z.......1st input
82y.......2nd input
----------(Multiple-position switches)---------------------------------
83........Input
83a.......Output, position 1
83b.......Output, position 2
83L.......Output, left-hand position
83R.......Output, right-hand position
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........CURRENT RELAY
84........Input, actuator and relay contact
84a.......Output, actuator
84b.......Output, relay contact
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
...........SWITCHING RELAY
85........Output, actuator (end of winding to ground or negative)
86........Start of winding
86a.......Start of winding or 1st winding
86b.......Winding tap or 2nd winding
----------(relay contact for break and changeover contacts)------------
87........Input
87a.......1st output (break side)
87b.......2nd output
87c.......3rd output
87z.......1st input
87y.......2nd input
87x.......3rd input
----------(Relay contact for make contact)-----------------------------
88........Input
----------(Relay contact for make and changeover contacts (make side))-
88a.......1st output
88b.......2nd output
88c.......3rd output
----------(Relay contact for make contact)-----------------------------
88z.......1st input
88y.......2nd input
88x.......3rd input
------------------------------------------------------------------------
...........ALTERNATOR and VOLTAGE REGULATOR
...........GENERATOR and GENERATOR REGULATOR
B+........Battery positive
B-........Battery negative
D+........Dynamo postive
D-........Dynamo negative
DF........Dynamo field
DF1.......Dynamo field 1
DF2.......Dynamo field 2
----------(Alternator with separate rectifier)--------------------------
J.........Excitation winding positive
K.........Excitation winding negative
Mp........Center point terminal
U,V,W.....Alternator terminals
------------------------------------------------------------------------
...........DIRECTION INDICATOR (turn-signal flasher)
C.........First indicator lamp
C0........Main terminal connection for separate indicator circuits
...........actuated by the turn-signal switch
C2........Second indicator lamp
C3........Third indicator lamp (e.g., when towing two trailers)
L.........Turn-signal lamps, left
R.........Turn-signal lamps, right
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cross-reference for old and new terminal designations in accordance with
DIN 72 552.
Only terminal designations whose significance has altered are given.

OLD...........NEW
1.............1, 53(wiper), 53e
2.............2, 53e
3.............53, 53b(wiper)
4.............4, 53a, 53b(wiper)
15............15, 49(turn-signal flasher)
15+...........49
15/54.........15, 49, 54
16............15a, 15
30............30, 33(motor)
30/51.........30, 87, 88(relay)
30f...........45
30h...........45, 45a
30h I.........45a
30h II........45b
30L...........33L (motors)
30R...........33R (motors)
31............31, 31c, 32(motors)
31a...........31a, 31c
31B-..........B-
50............50, 50b, 50f, 50h
50a...........50, 50a, 50e, 50g
50b...........50d
50k...........50d
50 II.........50c
51............51, 59, B+
51 -..........59
51a...........59
51B+..........B+
54............54, 53a, 54g
54/15.........15
54d...........53(wiper)
54e...........33b, 53b(wiper)
54L...........49a
58............58, 58L, 58R
58b...........58b, 58d
59............59a
85d...........31b(alarm switch)
B+30..........B+
B+51..........B+
D+/61.........D+
D-/61.........D-
H.............71
HL............L (L54b)
HR............R (R54b)
K.............C
K0............C0
K1............C, C2
K2............C2
K3............C2, C3
K4............C2, C3
L54...........L (L54)
N.............55
P.............C, 57a
PL............57L
PR............57R
R.............R, 75
R54...........R, (R54)
R54b..........Rb
S.............49a, 53(wiper)
S4............49a
SBL...........(L54)
SBR...........(R54)
VL............L
VR............R
+.............15, 49(turn-signal flasher)
...............53, 53a(wiper)
+2............53a
+15...........49
-.............1 (ignition coil), 31
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[304065]

Except that DIN 72 552 is widely deviated from and Porsche is no exception. There are wires that are actually backward from the DIN spec in the car, came that way from the Factory.

Kris, are you saying that you did some custom wiring and now your stuff doesn't work and you are looking for help over the Internet?

First post up an "as-built" showing EXACTLY how you wired in the relays down to the last detail with photos. I'll do my level best to help you out.

[Kris Clewell]

Here is how i have it wired. I took the wires directly off the fuse panel, put spade terminals on them, and wired them into the relay. I presumed the fuses on the relay itself would be great. Really a rookie mistake. I was trying to figure out WHY the stupid relays werent working. After I shorted the wires I noted that I had not hooked them up to the battery yet. I'll just blame my wife who kept coming in the garage to ask me questions.

[Kris Clewell]

why thats sideways I dont know.

[NeunElf]

Your diagram looks good to me. I infer from your description that the lights worked after you finished connecting the # 30 terminals on the relays to the battery.

If not, my guess would be either that you blew fuses when you shorted the wires from the fusebox to terminal # 81. Barring that, I could wonder if they might be connected to the wrong side of the fuse box.