911S Resurrection Not Restoration

[_gonbau]

is it possible that point B has so much deviation? I think I took the measurements correctly. Point A gave me 56.5 centimeters, but Point B gave me 58.5 centimeters. If I pass it to miles it is 585 far from the reference 726. I have used the same measurement method for the two points so I understand that point B needs repair? These figures are possible right ? Tomorrow I will continue with the measurement

[bob joyce]

baudett.... if you go on amazon you can find a laser for $100.00 when you buy it, you have to immediately check it for accuracy. make a mark on wall and turn laser 180 degrees to find the same mark. you should have no more than 1mm difference in 4 meters... you may have to send one or two of them back before you get a good one. if you go on Restoration Designs web site they have the factory chassis dimensions... with the laser you can check how level the floor is and adjust. but more important you can set the car on its design elevation plane...
with the laser you can shoot both elevation and line. so you can set up a centerline of the car. the only difficulty of this is that you have to set the car on plane and level and set it up so that you cant move it at all. if you do this you are "virtually " placing it on a celete bench.. please , if you draw a sketch or annotate a drawing showing your points of measurement and the resulted dimensions that will help others to assist you. p.s. carefully drooping a plum bob from the center of the bolt holes is difficult, but if you are very careful the result will be very good. providing the car is on plane and your floor is level/or adjusted for level....

[_gonbau]

baudett.... if you go on amazon you can find a laser for $100.00 when you buy it, you have to immediately check it for accuracy. make a mark on wall and turn laser 180 degrees to find the same mark. you should have no more than 1mm difference in 4 meters... you may have to send one or two of them back before you get a good one. if you go on Restoration Designs web site they have the factory chassis dimensions... with the laser you can check how level the floor is and adjust. but more important you can set the car on its design elevation plane...
with the laser you can shoot both elevation and line. so you can set up a centerline of the car. the only difficulty of this is that you have to set the car on plane and level and set it up so that you cant move it at all. if you do this you are "virtually " placing it on a celete bench.. please , if you draw a sketch or annotate a drawing showing your points of measurement and the resulted dimensions that will help others to assist you. p.s. carefully drooping a plum bob from the center of the bolt holes is difficult, but if you are very careful the result will be very good. providing the car is on plane and your floor is level/or adjusted for level....

Thank you very much for the information Bob! I'm going to investigate the measurement lasers more. I have made a video measuring A ... A video is not very explanatory but good. I took a thread and a screw, applied some wax in the center of the screw and caught the thread. Place the thread in the middle of the reference point. Wait for the pendulum movement to stop and I made a mark on the garage floor, the same for the other point and then measured. I explain the process for the video and images to spread. Tomorrow I make the sketch or maybe in a while of the 2 measurements taken! Thanks again to all

+
Due to your comment I think I have to check the tire pressures and then measure again. Or would it be better to unfold all the wheels and measure?

[bob joyce]

baudett .... your using wax to hang the plum bob from the center of the bolt hole is brilliant.... i would advise buying a small plum bob, they are cheap. the reason is because the screw you hang from the string is off to the side. with a plum bob, the string hangs thru the center of the plum bob. giving you an accurate spot on the floor... to be clear the $100 dollar laser will not measure, what it does is gives you a true elevation and line from which to measure to. p.s. if you want a quickie, ball park measurement... open the car doors and place a torpedo level on the threshold . this will kind of get the car level front to back. for side to side level, using a long straight edge, go across car from driver threshold to passenger threshold to level car. the results of your measuring after this "leveling" will be approximate. bob

[_gonbau]

Thanks Bob, yesterday I used the screw for speed ... I wanted to measure and did not feel like searching. Today I have time, I will look for and perform this task better, but this measurement is more delicate than I think, therefore, I don't know if to advance the sheet of the front a little more and then get into the measurements again. Possibly do this, but still, today I will try to make the scheme take some photos, and try to level the car! I will flatten the wheels and let the tires touch the ground. I hope this is not a mistake. Although before I tried to incharlas and pass level. Equally, I understand that although I have taken the measures with some error. Point B has to be "twisted" so that one of those figures ... I don't think I did it so badly when measuring this point .... I mean ... Although it is a little inclined by the pressure of the wheels , so much deviation? ... Today I have the day for the car, I would like to finish the support of the front window and I would like to clean up where all the cables go next to the fuel tank, to reassemble and see the lighting scheme. The eye is changing although I am still on a low budget.
Cheers to all.

[_gonbau]

I have not taken the measures yet, but after talking to my father we agree that the car will go into "celette" when the time is right.
At night I am assailed by doubt after searching the internet and not finding. What budgets exist to stretch? At the point where I am, how much would it cost to get the car into a rack and do the chores? Does anyone have an approximate budget? ... On the other hand I am trying to clean up the front glass support. I thought it would be an easier job but there is an angle between the pieces that is difficult for me to reach even with the file.
By the way, yesterday I worked in the car, I did not feel comfortable with the work done. Many hours, little progress and one of the files broke, the little one! Bad day.

[GeorgeK]

The worst day working on your 911 is better than the best day at work.
As for the Celette, by the time you see damage to the shell, it is a must. Advantage: you dont have to worry about it, you only have to strip the shell and clean it as far as you can, before pulling it straight.

[bob joyce]

if you suspect that the body is distorted then you will be better off having it put on a celete or other frame machine so that once the damage is found it can be repaired. make sure the person doing the work understands that you want it checked and repaired....as for price.... hopefully there is a machine on your island??? and that the guy that owns it is still alive (kidding)... if you strip the car down and make ready for mounting, maybe $1,500... if it needs work that can not be guessed . but figure at least $3,000... good luck...
once this frame problem is behind you. you will enjoy the project more knowing you are working towards a viable car...

[_gonbau]

if you suspect that the body is distorted then you will be better off having it put on a celete or other frame machine so that once the damage is found it can be repaired. make sure the person doing the work understands that you want it checked and repaired....as for price.... hopefully there is a machine on your island??? and that the guy that owns it is still alive (kidding)... if you strip the car down and make ready for mounting, maybe $1,500... if it needs work that can not be guessed . but figure at least $3,000... good luck...
once this frame problem is behind you. you will enjoy the project more knowing you are working towards a viable car...

I have been finding out here on the island we have good "planks" and also foals! Here is some history of rallying .-. I certainly mistrust the matter because when they ask me they say ... There are good workers and when I ask about prices they start to tell me that you have to pay a good job but that it is a porsche. At the time I don't like it very much. For me it is a piece of metal that if I pay you, you straighten, as if it is a miura ...
I don't know if I mean it, but there are people who just want to take out my eyes because of being a porsche ... Regarding the answers, I don't know if we have here on the island of the Celette brand, I will have to search but I'm sure there is something to stretch the chassis! And thanks Bob! That fact that you give was what I needed to know to be a little in tune with the stretching job. For this I have to remove doors? I have to keep measuring. Make the outline. For now I only keep the initial two points! Thank you very much again!

[David Liam]

Hello,

I was reading through the earlier posts. I am sure there are ways to do it with lasers and plumb bobs, but I have a professional Porsche 911 Metal Shop and I went all in with Celette repair benches and fixtures. I repaired early 911s on jack stands as a teenager and in my early twenties, so I can fully appreciate what a Celette offers.

I have a great example I can show you. Someone wanted to build a $200-300k hot rod, but wanted the body checked before investing all of that money in it. It was stripped down, so it loaded onto the Celette easily. The issues were easy to see.

The torsion tube mounted well, it was "true" but the rear was pushed over. There was also noticeable damage to one of the rear bumper mounting brackets where the impact was taken. The quarter panel somehow seemed unharmed, but it was 4-5 years ago, so I don't remember it perfectly, but I do have pictures I can show.

Issues to look for in photos:

-Replacement front pan was installed at some point, but didn't fit the Celette, very common, I find most front pans done without a Celette never fit a Celette (stoddard makes a front end jig, but I have noticed in front end collisions, the two rear mounting points (4 total for both sides) for the front suspension get pushed back, the jig aligns off of the back mounting points, so if this front end only jig is used after a collison, the front pan will go in misaligned. I have custom made pulling equipment to correct damage that pushes back the front suspension mounting points. The farthest back I have ever corrected is about 3/4'', any more and the damage is usually too severe and a new floor area and inner fender work is usually required)

-The rocker panels didn't fit the rocker panel jig, I think the car took a hit on the left side at some point, maybe a different collision than the one that bent the rear. That side of the car just didn't fit and I think I remember noticing funky welds on the outer rocker and thinking "yup, that's not going to fit, get that out of there or we can't mount the car."

-Rear shock towers are pushed over, I believe to the right, that's from the hit to the rear. Either the car got hit or it spun and crashed into something. The bumper took the impact and transferred that energy throughout the rear end. One other thing to add about this location is that I have noticed it is not very precise, I notice a lot of variance in this location with "perfect" cars. My guess is there was a lot of tolerance given there at the factory when the car was produced because precision at this location isn't very crucial, it just holds a shock.

-Rear engine mounts are pushed over even more than the shock towers, again from the rear end collision. The jigs didn't align with the engine mounts. If correcting, pulls would be performed until that engine mount jig fit perfectly in the engine mount. The rear end is often pushed up or down as well, so the pull has to be done in three dimensions, not just left or right. I use a pulling dozer along with a bunch of smaller hydraulics in cases like that. Nothing is ever very straight forward with pulling, it's kind of an art and a creative can do attitude is key. Things are often worse than they first appear.

I ended up not repairing that car, but my diagnosis was crucial to their decision making process.

Feel free to ask questions or ask me to clarify anything. There are a lot of pictures on my website as well, www.rungeeleven.com

I also post on instagram here and there, some more random "in process" or whenever I feel like posting pictures, search for "rungeeleven"

Facebook too, but that's linked to my instagram, so it's the same content.