Cleaning with dry ice

[LiveFromNY]

Timely thread. I'm actually in the process of evaluating these machines and buying one for my shop. Hasn't been easy. Seems most manufacturers are focused on the industrial market and automotive use isn't as wide-spread (at least here in TX). I'm going to Dallas next week to see a demo. I'm hoping it's everything it appears to be.

[VintageExcellen]

I'm going to Dallas next week to see a demo. I'm hoping it's everything it appears to be.

I would only buy a machine after I saw it work and used it myself as there is a ton of marketing promises from manufacturers. The automotive market seems to not be catered to at this point but it will be eventually.

[LiveFromNY]

I would only buy a machine after I saw it work and used it myself as there is a ton of marketing promises from manufacturers..

Yep, that's why I'm going to Dallas.

[Marek]

Hi Kiwi

Its dry ice blasting

Marek, is the above picture an example of ice blasting or hot water pressure blasting? It's amazing!

Hi Mark

I just replied to the tread due to the question of Ice blasting

First I would like to say forget ALL about buying a iceblasting system on your own ( livefromNY if your where thinking of a iceblast system)
18.000usd just buys you the machine and the gun
BUT you need a massive compressor, really massive
you need the ice delivered asap ,when its hot it will melt slowly even you stack it in a container
so the guys I am taking my cars to , they have the big CO2 tank , so they produce the ice in house '
we are not speaking of an ice block, its small 6-8 mm pills so there is this giant machine making it
they got 8 working stations so there is a profit in it ,
the hole thing will set you down 500.000 usd if you want to go pro, so for a single station forget it
not to say you need to live at a country house fare fare away the sound level is amazing , sounds like a jetplane
Btw its a danish invention , and the leading and the only one working , its from a company called ICEtech
http://icetechworld.com/

and its only for cleaning cars, not stripping remember that

I would say for a complete strip , I changed direction from blasting hole cars as we did for year to acid dip , this is just fantastic
I have tried most types of blasting , from nutshells to sand
first before blasting you have to strip of the rubber protection by hand anyway cost you time
and as you say, you have everywhere you need time cleaning it afterwords cost you time

Acid dip , well you need to cut access, that means outer/inner sills most be cut out etc
so it can get in everywhere, and be cleaned after words
but all paint , seals you just leave on
its fantastic,

cost is ca 2000 EURO for a raw chassi incl doors, lids , bumpers
and most offer this primer service called KTL where they dip the hole shell into
thats additional 2000 EURO , but then you got primer in every hole , corner ,edge

pics show a 914 front been acid dip

M

[LiveFromNY]

Interesting. Marek, who is the manufacturer of the equipment you mention?

The people I'm seeing in Dallas are telling me I'll need to spend significantly less than your number (but more than $18k) to do what I want to do. Not cheap, but not out of the question for me for such a cool toy. As with everything new, I'm sure technology is getting better every day while costs get lower. I'll report back after I demo the system.

[Marek]

Ice tech are the leaders on this market

http://icetechworld.com/

As said forget the machine it self it cost ca the amount you are telling me 18.000 usd

who would supply you the ice, its roughly as I remember 1 EURO a kilo ! you need a good 500 kg for a car
do you got anybody in the near of you , thats the most important , and trust me due to the pills are so small it melts quick
then you need a BIG compressor as I remember it need 2000 Liter air a minut
and the noise level its crazy

Well looking forward to hear about your demo :-)

Marek

[LiveFromNY]

Yep. That's them. Ice Tech America owned by Cold Jet (http://www.coldjet.com/en/index.php). Interesting that they're telling me a lower number. I'll let everyone know how it goes. Sounds like I may not be getting the whole picture.

Ice is readily available here in Austin (and most places in the U.S.). I already buy a ton of it for other business purposes.

[Alan.uk]

Hi, we looked into buying an ice blaster around a year ago.

Here is what we had for a few days.
https://www.kaercher.com/uk/professi...-15740020.html

We hired a compressor in and yes the equipment needs a lot of air and thus we used a diesel compressor which is noisy. Getting the dry ice here in the UK is pretty straight forward and can be ordered within 24 hrs. For us it didn't do enough of what we needed. It didn't clean of underseal or surface paint efficiently, well not enough to make the process worth while. It worked well on smaller items, and on ally but then we have vapour blasters in the workshop for that job. Then there was using it for cleaning, and yes that worked well, but I found it a fine line between cleaning and the abrasive action starting to mark the paint, or damage/mark items, such as anything paper based. I guess with more experience and removing some items the user would become much better in use of the equipment. For me the costings, at this stage, did not stack up. But I will keep an eye on what others find and remain open minded.

Thanks

Alan

[chris_seven]

Surely it is very basic Physics that is at play here.

To media blast a surface requires a certain amount of Kinetic Energy. The more angular the media the more it will abrade the surface.

The lighter and smoother the particle used the faster it will need to impact the surface.

I am not sure I believe the comments about cooling the paint are accurate as the difference in thermal mass between the pellet and the steel panel is huge. The Temperature of Dry Ice is only -80degC which is not so cold in absolute terms and to reduce the paint temperature using this technique seems unlikely but the real give away is that the Glass Transition temperature of most car paint types is above 40 degC so they are already brittle at most ambient temperatures where blasting would occur.

If it were genuinely a thermal effect the speed of the blast jet would be much less significant than is claimed.

It seems to me that the only benefit of dry ice compared to other media is that there is no cleaning required as the solid Co2 sublimes directly to a gas - it never melts to form a liquid.

If you 'hit' a panel hard enough to strip underseal you will always store some residual stresses in the panel and depending on the level of this stress some damage is likely occur.

The typical problem that occurs to a Class A Surface is that following painting and when the vehicle is driven small ripples can develop.

The vibrations that occur when the vehicle is driven will allow the stored residual stress to relax and this does cause movement of the panel surface.

I would never media blast a Class A surface, particularly a large flat area.

I am sure dry ice is good for engine and other mechanical parts when no 'media' will be left behind but for body shells we always use controlled pyrolysis oven and a Phosphoric Acid dip treatment which also leaves a relatively passive surface.

[911kiwi]

Wow! I marvel at both the experience and the collective technical /scientific knowledge shared on this board. Something learned every day!