Who sets the values on early 911s?

[FHernand]

I have been doing some reading lately on this theme. What are the credentials of those setting values? I have been seeing many different values coming from so many different people. Who should we look for as the authority? I have my own values as a restorer but I can't speak for others. Can I get some free education on this?

[Jim Breazeale]

I have been doing some reading lately on this theme. What are the credentials of those setting values? I have been seeing many different values coming from so many different people. Who should we look for as the authority? I have my own values as a restorer but I can't speak for others. Can I get some free education on this?

People that have far more money than me.

Ciao

jim

[93nav]

Buyers.

Or in other words, those with the money.

I have been doing some reading lately on this theme. What are the credentials of those setting values? I have been seeing many different values coming from so many different people. Who should we look for as the authority? I have my own values as a restorer but I can't speak for others. Can I get some free education on this?

[Richardnew]

The size of the bank account matters a great deal.

Then we get into currency movements. I suspect that one reason 911 prices went flat was the strong dollar.

Whenever we have a strong dollar the high dollar cars suffer. A lot of the Euro and Russian money backs off. Keep in mind that right now the United States is the only country in the world with a strong economy. That's not good if you're trying to sell million dollar cars.

Who sets prices? Market Forces.

Richard Newton
Tech Stuff

[LiveFromNY]

Keep in mind that right now the United States is the only country in the world with a strong economy.

Ha! Oh, Lord. That's a good one.

[eaton]

I have my own values as a restorer but I can't speak for others. Can I get some free education on this?

Tell us more about your values as a restorer. That's probably the more interesting and important "free education," at least for someone like me.

[Eminence Gris]

The size of the bank account matters a great deal.

Then we get into currency movements. I suspect that one reason 911 prices went flat was the strong dollar.

Whenever we have a strong dollar the high dollar cars suffer. A lot of the Euro and Russian money backs off. Keep in mind that right now the United States is the only country in the world with a strong economy. That's not good if you're trying to sell million dollar cars.

Who sets prices? Market Forces.

Richard Newton
Tech Stuff

Agreed.

Europeans - especially Germans - were driving the market up to about 2 years ago, and then the Americans took over. Euro to dollar range has been pretty narrow, but the perception is that the Euro is weak and will continue to be so. EU has a few issues to sort. If the Chinese government ever makes it easy to bring in vintage cars, we'd see a gold rush. But I'm betting that won't happen.

The American market was boosted by collectors abandoning the speculative Ferrari segment. Now, there seems to be uncertainty as to which marque is the best bet to appreciate.

[911quest]

I always thought it was these two.... Oh wait that was oranges

[VintageExcellen]

Auction results are a true indicator of real prices and what cars are in demand. This is an obvious driver of prices being set. How you interperet the information is where other values get lost.

Auction estimates on the other hand can sometimes be set by the seller if the auction wants to please consignors. Take Mecum this year at Monterey, they let so many sellers go wild with bogus descriptions and estimates set by the seller. There was a 912 prototype with an estimate of $1.2million, even as a professional seller of collectible Porsches I can substantiate that estimate, rare as can be sure but what collector has the money and wants to put that much in that car? There was an average 77 Turbo Carrera there last year that I worked on for a neighbor wanna be dealer I know, I told him I would help sell the car for value around $140-160k. Mecum told him they would get $250k for it because Steve McQueens car was going across the block, although one does not nessecarily influence the other. All my neighbor ever heard was $250k and his eyes got nutty and he thought I was completely wrong, so the car ran and got shill bid to $150k and was a no sale, it was up there again this year and only went to $100k, I would guess it will be there again next year chasing after a fantasy number created by the auction staff to lure him to consign at $1500 per event. Mecum does not care about authenticity of the ad or how many times the car runs as they make money either way.

Hagerty has values but they also do not sell cars so their data can't be the most reliable. They also cater to mostly high end owners and high end cars so that guy with the project car on wheels is not usually represented. They also make much more on a high dollar policy than a low dollar one so bias where you see fit.

So there are real numbers out there and then a whole slue of people that do not get the difference between cars that are actually worth big numbers and cars that are edgy - majority of people own edgy cars when talking about 40 year old cars. Most all dealers that restore cars do them on the cheap so they are not great cars. I had a 72 911T up for sale in Monterey with a $105k price tag on it and a guy walks up and laughs, says he has the same car and he is happy to see his car is worth $105k, he goes on, "mine is not this nice, and it was painted a different color than original, and I put a 3.0L in it" I call this caught by the fever of seeing high price cars and thinking you have the same thing while blatantly ignoring all other details. Everyone thinks if they have a classic Porsche then it's worth a ton, they ignore condition and restoration costs as well.

I know being a restorer myself that original parts are drying up and cost to restore is going up. Labor is no longer cheap and skilled labor in restoration is declining. So if you see a very original 911S that is built with original parts and done well then it will always be valuable. A color change T with the wrong motor can be plenty of fun but it is not collectible in near the same manor.

I have sold cars to the Middle East, talked about importing to China - so far you need to be a Chineese diplomat to get a car into China easily, never heard of classic Porsches going to Russia yet as they mostly want new stuff. Buyers from Europe UK, Australia, USA come in different waves, the Japanese are not buyers anymore like they were in the late 80s but maybe they will come back someday.

Since we need to blame the lower sales volume on something let's blame the election, that will do it.

[trdking]

I was just speaking to my friends in Germany yesterday. They say that the price of cars in the US is higher than Germany there fore they are not looking to US to purchase cars right now. I stated that although the asking prices are higher, nothing is really selling. It is a price standoff to see who moves first. They also stated funny someone mentioned this that China is slated to open the borders and lift the restriction from importing used cars into China by Jan 2017. Not sure how they came up with this info but that seems fairly confident that this would happen. (the guy that told me this was formerly second in command at a very prominent auto manufacture in Germany, not Porsche) If this holds to be true, hold onto your hats.