Engine Case Numbering

[Unobtanium-inc]

There is an interesting discussion on the 356 Registry site about this, lots of good info. As all the Porsches increase in value this will pop up more and more.

http://forum.porsche356registry.org/...hp?f=1&t=42999


---Adam

[RSTarga]

I don't know who CJ Murray is, but I am a fan. Unless you have ABSOLUTE provenance, any claim of matching numbers has to be taken with a grain of salt. I don't know how that is possible once a car has had multiple owners and maybe even in multiple countries.
Cars that I have seen rolled up into a ball, I now see on the covers of esteemed magazines.

[sithot]

A friend was asked if he would perform this on a blank case and he flatly refused. In fact I imagine (knowing him) his response was littered with colorful metaphors too.

Here's more:

http://www.vintageautomotive.net/?tag=engine-restamping

[Frank Beck]

Once a cheater; always a cheater.

Some STD's can be treated with medication.

This one will never go away.

[LongRanger]

. . . and whatza 'replika'?

. . . A friend was asked if he would perform this on a blank case and he flatly refused . . .

So? --- after you've swapped-in a new crank + some hot-rod rods, bought new P/Cs, scrounged + machined fresh heads, hooked-up an MFI that you found 'on-line' . . .

. . . then repainted/re-plated/powder-coated every single piece of sheet metal, than dropped a coupla pay-checks to re-finish every last stinkin' nut/bolt/washer/screw/etc . . .

. . . BUT? . . .

. . . you've left the seven nasty/scratchy/donked-up numbers intact?


THAT's an 'original' motor?

. . . Cars that I have seen rolled up into a ball, I now see on the covers of esteemed magazines . . .

Hhhhh

. . . Here are some shots Marco sent from Le Mans with the Toad Hall ST in the Porsche Classic display area . . .

Put it Another Way . . .

. . . How much of this car --- never mind the engine or ANY 'numbers' . . . ever travelled across any finish line? . . .




. . . and, yet? . . .



9112300538

[sithot]

. . . and whatza 'replika'?


Put it Another Way . . .

. . . How much of this car --- never mind the engine or ANY 'numbers' . . . ever travelled across any finish line? . . .

....

Perhaps its "spirit".

[Unobtanium-inc]

. . . and whatza 'replika'?



So? --- after you've swapped-in a new crank + some hot-rod rods, bought new P/Cs, scrounged + machined fresh heads, hooked-up an MFI that you found 'on-line' . . .

. . . then repainted/re-plated/powder-coated every single piece of sheet metal, than dropped a coupla pay-checks to re-fininish every last stinkin' nut/bolt/washer/screw/etc . . .

. . . BUT? . . .

. . . you've left the seven nasty/scratchy/donked-up numbers intact?


THAT's an 'original' motor?









Hhhhh





Put it Another Way . . .

. . . How much of this car --- never mind the engine or ANY 'numbers' . . . ever travelled across any finish line? . . .




. . . and, yet? . . .



....

Well, if that's the engine case that was in the car when it left the Factory then it is the original engine and in this case has replaced wearable parts, which is to be expected in any 50 year old car. As far as cars that every inch was restored I usually refer to 550-0001 in this case. When it was found in Mexico at a shoe factory very little of the car was left (the green body is a replacement fibreglass), but now that it is restored I doubt anyone is walking into the Collier Collection and saying that car is anything other than the 1st Spyder, if only for the fact that when it was bought it was all that was left on this earth of said car, so the restored car is still that car.

But there are nuances to restored cars that pop up. Another Spyder I know of was in a horrific fire several years ago and is now fully restored. I know the fire was bad because I saw the pics and have a piece of the car on my desk. Apparently the car won a very prestigious concours trophy years ago and the current owner inquired with the past owner if he could have the trophy. The trophy holder refused saying that the car that won that trophy was all original, and the car sitting on the lawn at Amelia is not the same car. So it's always open to debate.

---Adam

[sithot]

But there are nuances to restored cars that pop up. Another Spyder I know of was in a horrific fire several years ago and is now fully restored. I know the fire was bad because I saw the pics and have a piece of the car on my desk. Apparently the car won a very prestigious concours trophy years ago and the current owner inquired with the past owner if he could have the trophy. The trophy holder refused saying that the car that won that trophy was all original, and the car sitting on the lawn at Amelia is not the same car. So it's always open to debate.

---Adam

The car you are talking about won the Manhattan Trophy which was the pinnacle and highest honor you could achieve at a PCA Parade.
This is not the same car. As you stated, the original burned to the ground. One of Bruce Jennings 4 cam Carreras also burned in the same fire. That one will probably show up one day too; I have original photos of it.

A back story and real shame was before the 550 burned the owner had sent it back to the shop which had performed the restoration. The "then" owner was trying to convert it to a 12V system. Stupidest idea I had witnessed to date. The car had suffered other indignities as well. I recall the look on the face of the gentleman responsible for the car. He was visibly upset and I'll never forget that look. You pour you heart and soul into a project only to see it go to heck in a hand basket.

The trophy was for the original car, not what somebody has built from scrap. The new owner didn't win the trophy, his (new) car didn't win it, so neither deserve it. He owns the serial "number" of "a car".

(The cynical side of me believes the quest for the trophy is to add value to the bottom line of the "new" car if it were to be sold.)

[Richardnew]

Here's a link to the 550-01 car.

And yes we do tell people how it was found in a shoe factory and how the body was a fiberglass body at that time. When you're down in Naples we can arrange a tour and then discuss the epistemology of restoration.

In the meantime here's a link to my most recent column for Vintage Motorsport magazine. It deals with a lot of the issues being discussed here

Richard Newton

[RSTarga]

The original owner's son of 550-01 is a member here. His father owned Calzado Canadain Guadalajara, the largest shoe factory in Latin America and had quite a car collection.
The son was Camel Light's champion in 1992.