Troubling times

[Frank Beck]

I was sad but not surprised to see Chuck vanquish the Sutherland shooting thread. It doesn't matter; what you'll read here has universal application. I do hope my ramblings provoke thought as this applies to the next horrific event and the one after that. And the one after that, etc.

In these horrible situations we can allow for the possibility of mental illness but I hope we can all agree that these mass murders are acts of evil. If not evil then what motivated these people to murder?

Revenge?
Unbridled rage?
Personal gain?

Even in the presence of mental illness all of the above can be traced to evil. "Crazy" does not exist in a vacuum. Evil surrounds it.

If evil is the motive or spark, isn't the method of mayhem secondary? I'm amazed that people who mean well are so quick to condemn the tool but spend very little time (never?) addressing the underlying motive.

What's the opposite of evil? Webster's states "good and virtuous" (I would add Love.) How do we promote love? What is love? Where did it originate? If ultimately there's no moral responsibility to love and respect one's neighbor and the only policing agent that has any authority is man's law, isn't it fair to say these monsters who commit these atrocities have no motivation to act "morally" since they aren't afraid of legal consequences? So if there's no ultimate Author or Enforcer of morality or no eternal consequence for immoral behavior then we're left with no actual moral code to live by. Each person can do as he or she deems appropriate. These vile perpetrators simply do what seems right to them.

You may say "but he harmed others in exercising his desires". If you want to play that card then how is the motive any different than a person who tramples on the liberties and rights of others? If you let "man's laws" determine the threshold then what about all of those situations where the law is silent when one person can trespass on another person's conscience and conviction?


In regard to the current national debate...
Let's say firearms are outlawed or restricted and monkeys fly out of my butt. Don't you think human ingenuity and cleverness would prevail and evil people will find other ways to kill? The argument is "but it wouldn't be so easy".

Really? The amount of equipment and products that exist in the U.S. to run over, drop on, and blow people up is almost infinite.

As this nation gets further and further away from the principles and commandments that framed our rights, constitution, and behavior toward one another don't be so outraged or shocked when these events unfold. Until a morality war is waged against evil we are in for slaughter after slaughter. Until people embrace a mandate and put into practice loving and respecting their neighbor, satisfying their own lust and selfish desires will come first. And evil will be right there.

I hope at least here we can respect one another's beliefs and convictions and not engage in the mean spirited personal attacks on belief systems that seem to be accepted in our culture currently.

[NZVW]

I get what your saying and respect your thoughts,views and beliefs, I may not be totally alined however that does not diminish respect. What I cannot understand is why my post ALL TO FAMILIAR was erased, swiped discarded and binned when it was purely my expression of thoughts and sorrow for those affected by the evils in this world.
Im sure this wont last long as well,, OFF TOPIC,,, non porsche related last time I read,
Mark

[ibmiked]

Thanks Frank, you echo my own thoughts quite closely. Teaching morality, whether it be in schools, places of worship, or at home is the only solution. No one is seriously talking about banning the renting of Home Depot vans to stop what happened here in NY last week, as it's clear that hate can be weaponized in many ways.

[oscillon]

Frank. I agree that evil in the hearts of those who commit these acts is the root cause. Evil is not uniquely American and the statistics of violence bear that out. What separates us from developed countries is our nearly limitless access to the machines that allow those with evil in their hearts to inflict the most massive and indiscriminate outpouring of that evil on their fellow "man". It is a very simple formula of efficiency. If someone wants to kill/maim the largest number of people in the shortest amount of time, there is an obvious way to accomplish that task. I think mass shootings prove this point. Many may try to make the "trucks through crowds" argument to claim that I'm incorrectly blaming the machine rather than the cause. However, that is a false equivalence. Terrorists with limited resources to carry out their brand of evil will use any means at their disposal to inflict the most terror; if the NYC killer had access to actual guns, he would have used them too.

Dan (Former NRA member, hunter, sportsman, owner of guns, liberal)

[doigthom]

My apologies to Mark. I'm sure the thread was taken down because of the trouble I started. I'm sorry.

Tom

[NZVW]

Tom, your apology is unnecessary.
These kinds of events really stretch the fibre of our well founded morals and values.
Being human they cause an emotional response which at times is misunderstood, ( I am the first to raise my hand of this)
It is important to also remember that these atrocities are global and not unique to the USA so gun law changes and the like will not make any measurable difference.
This forum brings thousands of people from around the world together because of a LOVE of a simple car.
Perhaps Porsche could build a few billion more and all would be good.
Mark

[doigthom]

Thanks for your response.

Tom

[Macroni]

Thanks for the post Frank.

Given my urban upbringing I tend to lean to the gun control side of the road. Recent events have proven this does not / will not eliminate hate. It is especially hard when so many do not value their own life let alone those around them. We need to do a better job of making the most of the opportunity to deal with these situations earlier on. Texas shooter when he beat his family and the NYC killer at the border. How could we have handled these situations differently? Are these the freedoms we need to restrict......

[pu911rsr]

The sad fact is we have lost the ability to have reasonable and sensible discussions about many of serious problems that exist in the US and the rest of the world. Everything turns into a black/white winner/loser fight to the death. Solving problems involves the understanding and acknowledgement of objective facts and the ability to compromise to reach a consensus of what is the best approach for all. I think the original hope was the internet would help democratize knowledge but it seems to have done just the opposite.
Phil

[John912]

The older you get the more you come to realize how perfectly balanced this life is: light-dark, warm-cold, love-hate, birth-death, pleasure-pain, good-bad, etc. For every act of benevolence and kindness there’s an equal and opposite act of cruelty and evil. Regardless of how hard we try hard to understand and shift things around, I believe the balance is baked into our DNA. As Plato once said, only the dead have seen the end of war (and senseless violence, etc.). Best we can do is seek the good side of life, a quiet and peaceful part of the world where we can enjoy wrenching on and driving our vintage Porsche cars!