Stolen engine No.6111743 - Porsche 911 T 1971 in Switzerland

[uai]

"your question is terrible and stupid"

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B...h_(Rennfahrer)
https://portal.dnb.de/opac.htm?metho...uery=124755224
Just google his Name and which Books he wrote. And look which racing successes he had.

[_gonbau]

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B...h_(Rennfahrer)
https://portal.dnb.de/opac.htm?metho...uery=124755224
Just google his Name and which Books he wrote. And look which racing successes he had.

I'm not interested in his racing history, I know his father was an F1 racer, I suppose that thanks to that he achieved a large part of what he has (without wanting to overshadow his own abilities, which I don't doubt are extremely "great") but I would have liked more to be more precise in this matter. I know he raced the cars, I know he worked for the factory, etc... But don't ask me to learn/buy the story of someone "who may have been playing with what what are "the porsches" after having had everything... By proxy, I could have bought a thousand books about him, bought the book on the 2.5 st etc, but that does not assure me of a truth, nor does it assure me that this information is the what am i reading...
and... thanks for the answer! Better than a lol
um... of all those books that you attach to me in the link, his name comes out ok. But who has drafted and written those books? swear? or ONLY carry name?

[uai]

Ok you don't get it.
He made apprenitceship @porsche and had a very important role in designing set-up and also racing Factory racecars.
@Porsche very often the design engineers were also later racing the cars after developing them beforehand.
He was responsible for a lot of the factory participations in events "Rennleiter" he also was head of Customer Sports.
So If you ask who was Huschke von Hanstein and what he did for the Factory is about the same dumb question.
When and if he was or wasn't involved in the frauds in the time after he retired doesn't necessarily raise credibility of his books or the work he did during his time at the Factory.

[_gonbau]

Ok you don't get it.
He made apprenitceship @porsche and had a very important role in designing set-up and also racing Factory racecars.
@Porsche very often the design engineers were also later racing the cars after developing them beforehand.
He was responsible for a lot of the factory participations in events "Rennleiter" he also was head of Customer Sports.
So If you ask who was Huschke von Hanstein and what he did for the Factory is about the same dumb question.
When and if he was or wasn't involved in the frauds in the time after he retired doesn't necessarily raise credibility of his books or the work he did during his time at the Factory.

From my point of view, when you become involved in these matters (guilty or not), your ENTIRE career becomes stained, scrutinized under a magnifying glass, etc., etc... even though he, by now, will be noticing it... I do not undermine the credibility of the books, nor of his ability as a driver or as an engineer, much less myself, as I have not done any of those things...


Thank you for clarifying the relationships you had with Porsche. I would like to delve a little deeper into what you did, but I suppose that "little is known" apart from what you say... Regarding the other name you mentioned, I don't know who that is, so it would be the same silly question. I apologize for not being familiar with your level of knowledge, but with time... I will get there.

[MPST]

dear all,

it's all about money and not even about the egos of who knows more than the others. If certain people based on their knowledge and relationships from a bodyshell with an additional 150k$ can create an RS, ST, TR, and sell as such real, then that's just cheating.

But, only the buyers of the vehicles were cheated, a damage may also have suffered those who also own such vehicles and want to sell them. Since the market prices became generally lower, but that has already settled again.

Very often famous ex-Porsche employees and also racing drivers have been involved, clearly more than those you are talking about. The temptation to quickly earn half a million was just too big.

It was just about money....

[HughH]

dear all,

it's all about money and not even about the egos of who knows more than the others. If certain people based on their knowledge and relationships from a bodyshell with an additional 150k$ can create an RS, ST, TR, and sell as such real, then that's just cheating.

But, only the buyers of the vehicles were cheated, a damage may also have suffered those who also own such vehicles and want to sell them. Since the market prices became generally lower, but that has already settled again.

Very often famous ex-Porsche employees and also racing drivers have been involved, clearly more than those you are talking about. The temptation to quickly earn half a million was just too big.

It was just about money....

Sadly I 100% agree. The only winners were the people involved in this process (at least most of them until now) The losers were all the current owners of the real cars, the buyers of these newly manufactured cars, and anyone with any connection to the hobby including all owners of "ordinary cars" and Porsche as an organization.

[MPST]

100% agree. But come on, the real enthusiast are still loving their cars!

[patrick911]

From my point of view, when you become involved in these matters (guilty or not), your ENTIRE career becomes stained, scrutinized under a magnifying glass, etc., etc.... (...)

I sort of agree with you there.
The engineer that worked on Peter Kitchak's cars (for Toad Hall i assume) mentioned two things that, in light of what is alleged now, altered my opinion of Jurgen.
1) At one of the RennSport reunion meetings, Barth initially pushed the museum '73 RSR to the front, indicating it was the Targa Florio winning car. There's pictures (the 'real TF winner' thread I think) that show that when Kitchak (or his crew) indicated that THEIR car was the real Targa winner, albeit in LeMans guise, the museum car was pushed backward and Kitchak's car took its rightful place as being more significant. I never thought anything of that, other than being a misunderstanding, now I think it was deliberate.
2) When Peter Kitchak wanted to restore the car, Jurgen only wanted to support and provide information if the car was to be restored to - what he found to be its most significant form, the - Le Mans look it had in 1973 (#47).
It should not be up to him imo, but now, based on the alleged case, I can't help but think that the real intention of the refusal to support a restoration to Targa winning form may have been to trigger a payment to change his mind.

So yes, he has been very important during those seventies racing years, but for me his reputation is tarnished, even though he's not convicted. (innocent until proven guilty, yada yada...)

...and if I had a significant car that had its provenance confirmed by Jurgen Barth, I would be worried that that doesn't mean a whole lot anymore.

[911MRP]

Any factual update from the actual trial(s) rather than general chat about allegations? I know the wheels of justice turn slowly but ….

[rhegra]

the aachen regional court has not yet rescheduled the proceedings because the main defendant is still ill