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Thread: My Martini RSR build project

  1. #171
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    That engine compartiment light seems to have a toggle switch on the right side. Glovebox light? At least on my '84 it looks like that.

  2. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeK View Post
    That engine compartiment light seems to have a toggle switch on the right side. Glovebox light? At least on my '84 it looks like that.
    that's what it looks like to me, also.
    keith
    '75 RS/RSR-look | '67 Kaiser M715 | '73 CB750 | '70 TD250B

    r gruppe # 436

    zuffenhaus: products|eurowerks

  3. #173
    Senior Member patrick911's Avatar
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    I scored a Bosch fuelpump on Ebay, but it's been stuck in Chicago (USPS) for at least 12 days now.... hope it's Covid related and not that it's lost.

    In Melbourne, Australia we're in Stage 4 Covid restrictions for the last 4 weeks, which means there's not much neither I or my metal-magician can do. We're not allowed more than 5km from our homes, and non-essential services or workplaces have stopped. So things are not moving. At all.

    The team at ATL in Jersey have completed the custom fuel-bladder and it arrived today with the GRP casing Gunnar Racing put together.
    There's still quite a bit of work to do to finish the thing, and we can't do that obviously until I can place the combo in the car and measure where the filler-necks, brackets, fuel-sender, etc, need to go.
    So until these restrictions lift - which is at least another 2 weeks off - that won't happen.
    But after begging KJ for over a year, then him doing the work (a man of his word), shipping the casing from Florida to Jersey, and now having the cell here, it does feel like a huge accomplishment.

    Seeing only 10 or so cars (maybe even less) were ever fitted with these FT3 120L safety cells, it's definitely a part that sets this replica apart from most others.
    So other than this, the fuel pumps, that engine compartment light and the metal-ring around the rev-counter (to fit a 100mm dial in the 110mm hole), the holes in the hood for the fuel-filler, the 3 lightweight balsa wood strips under the hood, the car is now very close to paint.

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    Member #3058
    1973 911 2.4T
    1976 911S -> 2.8RSR rep

  4. #174
    Senior Member patrick911's Avatar
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    Stuck at home, testing if the 'Zuffenhaus' RSR brakes do really fit with the RSR parking brake purchased from 'Aase' as advertised.
    And yes, they do!
    (I used some tape to prevent damage - I know, it's ridiculous, as if anyone can even see these brakes when they're hidden in the deep wheels, let alone this part...)

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    Member #3058
    1973 911 2.4T
    1976 911S -> 2.8RSR rep

  5. #175
    Senior Member patrick911's Avatar
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    Once the car comes out of paint - which may still be a while seeing we're still in lockdown here in Melbourne - one of the first things to sort will be the suspension.

    Konradsheim's 'Carrera RS' book states that the RSR had a 100mm reduced ground clearance, achieved by using newly developed shock absorbers with a 16mm higher axle steering stub knuckle.
    I'm not sure if this changed later for all RSR's, but due to the group4 homologation change on 12/02/1973, the spindle on the front was raised from 108 to126mm at least for the works cars.
    Other changes listed in the book were:
    - replacing rubber joints with Delrin bearings or uniball joints,
    - a torsion bar combination of 19mm (or 22mm) front & 26mm rear,
    - non-adjustable Bilstein shock absorbers (V8 front and H8 in rear).
    - anti-rollbars (better term than sway-bars imo) were 20 (front)and 22 (rear) with 5 levels of adjustment.
    - Progressively wound helical Titanium springs on the struts.
    - U-bracket for anti-rollbar and nose for ball joint additionally welded on control arms in front.
    - Reinforced shortened steel trailing arms with 80mm wheel bearings for the RSR (911.331.053.40) with changed pickup points.
    - aluminum front axle support, not steel as per ‘standard’ 1973 model (901.341.013.03).

    Then there’s the notes Jurgen Barth made for the Targa Florio (see below) that list the following specifically for R6 at the Targa:
    - Drehstabe vorn: 19mm hinten: 26mm durchmesser (drehstabe = torsion bar, vorn = front, hinten = rear);
    - Dampfer vorn: V8 (160/160) H8 hinten (180/170) (stossdampfer = shock absorber);
    - Anschlag-gummi vorn: 1 hinten 2 (rubber stop? would this be bump-stop?)
    - Stabilisatoren vorn: 18mm durchmesser, hinten: 15mm (anti-rollbar/swaybar)
    - Sturz: VL: -1 degree 50’ VR:-1 degree 50’ (sturz = Camber, VL = vorne links = front left, R = rechts = right)
    - Nachlauf: 6 degrees 30’ (trailing? would this be 'caster?')
    - Vorspur: 0 vorspuranderung: 0 (vorspur = toe-in)

    - Sturz: HL: -1 degree 50’ HR: -1 degree, 50’ (sturz = camber, HL = hinten links = rear left)
    - Vorspur: 1 degree 10’ (vorspur = toe-in)
    - Bodenfreiheit: 105mm vorn, 115mm hinten (clearance)

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    Note: the second line seems to mention "xxxxx federn" where 'federn' is springs, and a designation of 'red-red-red-red or 'red-red-red-yellow'.
    Anyone know what it exactly says and what this means?
    Could it read: "schraubenfedern", meaning coil springs? Anyone got a clearer picture?

    What however none of the sources specify, unless the above does read 'schraubenfedern'', is if R6 was fitted with these helical titanium springs or not.
    Maxted-Page chose to not fit their Bilstein shock absorbers with these springs/coilovers, and they did a lot of research and should have some decent info.
    On the other hand, when Darren and I discussed the larger turrets they installed for the 3.0RS (which were not installed in 1973 on the 2.8RSR), we discussed that those were widened to make room for the coilovers. R6 in pictures still had those 'normal' turrets, but that doesn't mean that it didn't have them rubbing against the metal.

    Then I was discussing this picture with Hugh, which shows the #107 Martini car at the Targa Florio with it's left front wheel removed.
    As you can see in the picture, this one clearly has coilovers, at least at the front.
    It's likely to be R8 (the first #107, which got crashed by count Pucci before the actual race) and not the later #107 (an upgraded non-prototype chassis) for which Hugh has proof that it didn't have coilovers.

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    (Picture taken from Targapedia - credit: Roberto Aiello)

    I would assume that R6 and R8 would both be fitted identically, and both being prototypes after a customer RSR-owner complained [about the legality of the changed works RSR suspension] at the Monza race, would be fitted with the latest and greatest Porsche could muster. But, likely though it may be, it's by no means confirmed.

    Is there anyone here that may have info that tells us if R6 at the Targa was fitted with coilovers at the front, the rear, or both?
    Last edited by patrick911; 09-22-2020 at 11:07 PM. Reason: added a comment
    Member #3058
    1973 911 2.4T
    1976 911S -> 2.8RSR rep

  6. #176
    According to my uncle who works for german companies his all life, nachlauf is caster indeed and schraubenfedern is a coil spring.

  7. #177
    Senior Member HughH's Avatar
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    Patrick
    I sent you a better copy of the Targa one via email and a note showing Engineer Singer discussing fitting coil overs in the initial Paul Ricard tests in late 1972 and how they were working with the Dunlop tyres
    However THIS one is from the Daytona race in early 1973 note the mention of coiloversprings

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    Hugh Hodges
    73 911E
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    Australian TYP901 Register Inc.

    Early S Registry #776

  8. #178
    Senior Member patrick911's Avatar
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    Thanks Hugh, Thanks 'Kuba.Huminski'!
    So coilovers seems pretty confirmed then.
    Member #3058
    1973 911 2.4T
    1976 911S -> 2.8RSR rep

  9. #179
    Senior Member patrick911's Avatar
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    So with the correct suspension bits identified I put a list together to shop at Elephant Racing.
    I will only be able to give proper judgement once everything is fitted (still not sure if the 26mm raised spindle will work with the 15" wheel) and tested, but the customer support I received has been great. Once I mentioned that I needed coilovers, we changed a few things (ie: re-valved the shocks) so that the combination of 19mm (front) and 26mm (rear) torsion bars will work with the coilovers to make for a fantastic sporty ride for the street. Few other things on the wishlist were new spring plates, later turbo-tie rods and some polybronze bushings for the spring plate. For the rest I've used rubber bushings, even though the works cars had 'delrin' ones; I'm just not willing to make the ride harsh and uncomfortable, seeing it will get 99% street-use and maybe see a track once or twice only.
    A nice touch from the ER guys was also that they painted the Bilstein shocks in 'John Deere' green, as the RSR ones I ordered were yellow, but needed a re-paint because of the spindle change.

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    Work at the chassis (last bits before paint) is still not happening due to the lockdown in Melbourne, so there's no progress there unfortunately.
    It also means these shiny parts will have to sit pretty in the garage for a while longer.
    Last edited by patrick911; 10-13-2020 at 08:41 PM. Reason: spelling
    Member #3058
    1973 911 2.4T
    1976 911S -> 2.8RSR rep

  10. #180
    The 15 inch wheels will be fine on the raised spindle,i use this on two of my cars.
    why run torsion bars,the car will be better just on springs.
    All looking good.

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