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Thread: My new 911S....help required

  1. #31
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    Cool in UK too and have a few pals with old 911s. Maybe meet some event ?

  2. #32
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    Hugh
    My RHD car (69t) has the BS AU 48 plate.
    It was ordered (per the Kardex), delivered and (prior to Sydney) has always been in South Africa.
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    Maybe it was attached to more than just UK ?
    Paul

    1969 ex-South African RHD Tangerine 911T (matching numbers)
    1970 ex-Southern Californian LHD Conda 911T (matching numbers)
    1955 Series 1 86" Land Rover (original Australian CKD … stripped to chassis and slowly re-building)
    1987 W124 230e

    (long term paid up member)

  3. #33
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    Maybe some counties decided to adopt the British standards institute regulations on seatbelt mounting points rather than doing their own work to approve or adopt dot or din or whatever.

    The bnib nos seatbelts I have as spares are identical to the first fitted kangols on my EG16 rhd 63 RS were from a shipment destined for South Africa but the shipment never made it and I was delighted to find a pair for my shelf of correct to spec spares.

    Also on brochures around that time Porsche so called rest of the world literature items in English language are different to North America versions. Is it possible commonwealth countries were in some ways a segment having historical commonality for some things while having some unique aspects e.g I heard from Hugh seatbts were at time an Australian brand.

    Though USA was a big market there is certainly more nuance and variation to the different build specificatins and often there is a default NA centric view to things covered here which is noticeable to folks living elsewhere. As stated the fahrzeug auftrag gave both the codes like EG C16 or equivalents for other county specifications which defines these things for workers.

    While there is undoubtedly some things that were pragmatic decisions and depended on lineside availability for safety critical items there would have been controls and sign off even on those days. As a former group operations director of a well known sports car OEM and deputy managing director of a tier one automotive engineering business developing vehicles for other marques I am pretty confident Porsche would have had the necessary processes and controls even in those days. Even if trainspotting 50 years on the patterns and logic are not apparant to us and at times appear random.

    S
    Last edited by 911MRP; 10-20-2019 at 11:37 PM.

  4. #34
    Senior Member HughH's Avatar
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    Paul
    I think Hong Kong cars at that time were considered "UK" due to its colonial status then. Also I think, from others who have had South African cars from that time that Porsche (and others) were not selling directly into South Africa at that time ( ie 1969 / 70 for your car) due to the Political situation - so the cars were ordered ex UK (possibly to UK specs) and delivered directly to South Africa (or maybe indirectly via a UK port for a brief stop over ) I think that was the case with Lee Durrant's 69 but I dont know if it had that plate or not
    Hugh Hodges
    73 911E
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  5. #35
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    ............. snippets online from later in 70s...

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    Not all porsche 911 have the seat belt mountings already in the chassis inner sill/rockers and centre tunnel, whereas cars like mine and others I've seen with this plate do; along with static three point belts. Also the mounting on B Pillar and the provision of the forward facing rear shelf mounts under trim that were not used in road spec.. I've certainly looked at various RHD cars around ~ 12/72 build for this feature among friends. I know of 73 T and 73 E with this arrangement both 12/72 build. I suppose it might be related to type approval for that particular seatbelt mounting arrangement for RHD cars even those not for British market nor supplied r via PCGB allocation ..but I don't have a complete picture so just a partially researched best guess as part of understanding my car's original spec. It could be that other countries particularly with the relative low numbers on RHD just found it practical to adopt BSI BS AU 48 for seatbelt mounting rather than their own type approval for that aspect yet maybe like Australia had different requirements for belts themselves to help support their industry S Hugh pointed out elsewhere some time ago. It is not a Porsche thing other cars has AU48 requirement for UK obviously. I've seen debate in Alfa circles as well as other marques.
    I expect it got harmonized along with many other standards after UK joined what as a kid recall was then just a "European common market" in January of 73.

    The McNally 911 for use in SA certainly went via the UK though it was a sporting purpose car but don't know if it had this plate.

    Steve
    Last edited by 911MRP; 10-21-2019 at 05:20 AM.

  6. #36
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    Just tripped over this snippet from July 1971 which touches on seatbelt standard for Republic of Ireland so posting here

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    The UK had not yet joined the common market ( that happened in Jan 73). Although the Republic of Ireland is different as a rhd market it was evidently adopting the BSI standard as well as other international standard for belts and the separate standards for seatbelt anchorages. Don't know if Republic of Ireland cars got the aluminium plate for anchorage compliance with the BSI AU Automotive standard however.

  7. #37
    Senior Member karlusmagnus's Avatar
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    Cecil started off with Jag’s entering his mother-in-law’s MK V 3,5 liter in the 1951 Monte Carlo rally. What a trusting mother-in-law ��
    Natural that Ireland ratified UK and German seat belt standards as they were preparing for entry to EEC since 1961 (rebuffed twice in ‘63 and ‘67 as a result of DeGaulle’s veto of UK entry, but with DeGaulle’s resignation in ‘69, 3rd time lucky for IRL to finally enter Jan ‘73).
    Looking forward to following your build ��
    Karl_O'Donoghue RG: 421 E911SR: 792 GS: 5

    '72T Coupe - Sepia Brown #415 Options:M400/404/449/470/568

  8. #38
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    See the video dash if the Irish on YouTube
    https://youtu.be/0xmOj2EZiV

    Wish my mother in law would loan me a car to enter a rally with

    Regarding seatbelts: Evidently other countries beyond the UK did adopt AU48 per the question in post #32 above
    Agree natural and sensible for the Republic of Ireland to follow the work done in UK for RHD given size of RHD market/s. I was just sharing a period data point that conforms in black and white the timing (June 71) of what happened in at least one other RHD country.

    There are more detailed discussions on RHD seatbelt beyond the aside on this car's thread where I have posted info so will also post the snippet on that thread when I next come across it.

    There was much richness of seatbelt variety and fitting on 911 around this time in late sixties early 70s as belts evolved and countries had different standards. Much more focus on provision of belts even if not yet mandatory to wear them. I sometimes feel there is an excessive focus on Repa brand because of factory fit (which rather like the default to Blaupunkt Frankfurt radios) rather underplays the diversity of stuff actually used in the day where not a coa option based on our current restoration brand
    defaults. Pity really as it is a distortion

    As covered in posts elsewhere, British market RHD cars often got Kangol three point static around this time --as is seen in various roadtest photos of cars when new. Even when seatbelts were included in price the existence of many with British Kangol belts with the BSI kite mark and standard no rather suggests these were fitted locally using the AU compliant mounts already in chassis sill and tunnel. Therefore done on arrival at London PCGB Isleworth importers where all UK cars passed through there en route to the selling dealer ( which they all did I'm told and bourn out by my rhd car being delivered there and then taken to the dealer for final prep which I know from certain having been told that by the salesman on provincial official Porsche centre who wrote explaining how did a trip to collect it with customer. (Incidentally at to me is an example of history /provenance something which is being discussed on another thread I've read. Don't know about value of it but these connection to the back story wher a previous owner and its original salesman re-engage about a cherished classic has a value to enthusiastic owner beyond price increment on a sale transaction )

    Steve

    PS talking of Ireland and Paddy Hopkirk of NI who is mentioned above as narrating a film about rallying in Ireland above. He seems to be in fine fettle! I chatted to him in September in the assembly area of the Goodwood Revival just before the Cooper tribute ( see pic below) and again earlier this month had a nice 20 minutes natter, fetched him a glass of bubbly then introduced him to my guests at motoring book event at my club, where he is also a member. He told me he is still very active on road safety matters with IAM and was pleased to hear I'd been through their advanced driving programme. Although no longer president of BRDC (owners of Silverstone) he proceeded to persuade oneof my lady guests to join BRDC -- explaining she qualifies from her time as director in F1 even though not a racing driver. He and I had a chuckle later thst evening when the main motoring book of the year prize was awarded to some Italian Job book and the author went onstage for the acceptance; giving large about his knowledge the movie and the Mini without once mentioning that the MInis most famous and skilled exponent was actually sitting in the audience!Name:  IMG_20190914_163230.jpg
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    Last edited by 911MRP; 01-12-2020 at 06:29 AM.

  9. #39
    Any üpdates, Matthew?



    ..........

  10. #40
    Thanks for the interest LoneRanger...yes...there is progress and I am well overdue an update.

    I made the decision just before Christmas that it was so far overdue sorting properly that I just had to get stuck into it which is what I have done.

    My first trip in the new year - pre-lockdown was to drag it down to see the guys at SportWagen in Southend on Sea. They were somewhat bemused with what I had, but I had pretty much decided that I wanted them to sort out the bodywork and so wanted to see what they were up to and to try and get them enthused about my project. Wow - what a set up and their work is simply stunning. I know it will be in the right hands there.

    So the next thing has been to strip it down - taken longer than I had thought obviously as I have not been furloughed but working all the way through...still, we are nearly there and I have maybe a week or so of early starts to get it to a completely bare shell.

    It has had a real beating, the sills have been replaced with home made jobs, the arches cut and many Kgs of filler applied...the previous owner was a proper sculpter that is for sure. It has rear seatbelt mounts on the parcel shelf which is good as I will go with either REPA or Britax three point belts when the time comes. Seems like some cars had those and others didn't.

    Not much else to report other than it has body 1092060 stamped by the radio mount and I guess there have been rustier cars out there.

    While this was going on, the elders have run an amazing thread called the Ultimate Sports Purpose thread....my Kardex has a factory written reference number which I queried....everyone then worked out that it refers to an order number for Werks 1 race shop which is exciting...exactly what they did is yet to be revealed - it's a great thread if you haven't seen it.

    So, not sure what else I should be checking on the shell to see if there are any more tell tales. I have managed to speak to a wonderful gentleman who used to ride around in it when he was 10 going to autocrosses etc where it competed in Ireland. I now know that Vard painted it blue before he sold it....it has been many colours and it wasn't until it was almost totally to pieces did I discover any Bahama Yellow!

    I hope to get it off to the blasters in the next few weeks and from there to SportWagen who will have to remove chunks of non-Porsche metalwork and start putting it back to how it should be - very exciting though!!

    I will do the engine and trans, and the interior build etc. The loom is a mess, but I think i can resurect it but I am not looking forward to getting it back into the car!!

    Picture of body number attached....I will try and post some more of the less appealing pix of the car. Can't wait to get the completed shell back so I can get cracking..

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