CN36 opinions ? I'm super disappointed...

[911MRP]

Update

The road and track feb72 roadtest of the 911 e specifically states Veith Pirell cinturato 72 ( not CN36 as was seemingly being presumed on basis of name Pirelli )!

Attachment 524793


I recognise this is one datapoint. This however tallies with the document from my period references that I posted above which is the Veith Pirelli v36 pricelist of 22 July 1971. according to road and track Porsche source as German maker for Pirellis

My source


What is quite important to note is the footnote comment on this page which seems to suggest (If my German translation is accurate ?) that as at 22 July 1971 the cn36 Cr 185/70 15 VR was in Vorbereitung — in preparation which places a big question mark on assumptions or claims it being available an in use on longhood S before that date?


Also interesting to note the role of the acquired Veith Pirelli in development which might in part explain the use of then very low 60 profile cn 36 being available solely from Pirelli for RS rear start launch until Dunlop caught up and were used for later RS.


Evidently even by around the time of the change of the model year for 72 ( so long after 70 model year kardex with what might be misleading assumptions behind name Pirelli ) the cn72 186/70 VR 15 was in use on 911. One datapoint granted but reliable source dating from when car was new.

Imo ESR is important as the fact based resource on original factory spec for longhood models. It is of course possible cn36 were used too or maybe later but by publication date Feb 72 and procleist July 71 it some way through the longhood era. As stated not seen evidence on cn36 Being used beyond RS — this input underscores my questioning Cn36 assumes use on TES. There are always the infamous variations exceptions but generally ...hmm.

I recognise this thread is about latest incarnation. Maybe the above road and track and Veith Pirelli datapoint gives pause for thought to anyone using assumption that Pirelli cn36 was original fit to TES as a factor today. On the other hand it was in historic first different size certainly the choice on the top of range RS and I’m pleased Pirelli through Longstone have brought it back.

As stated always open to learn or be corrected by experts and tyre specialists as this is just a classic car hobby; I don’t work with these old cars or tyres.

Steve

Other roadtests I have mention Dunlop and Michelin specific tyres but won’t digress as this is Pirelli cn36 thread

Trying to flip the R&T image Is not working...

[Arne]

I recognise this thread is about latest incarnation...

It was. IMO, all this discussion about ancient history should be moved to a different thread so that this one regains its value to those looking for info about today's tire (tyre) offerings. The reviews of the current tire are now buried and hard to parse. Yet another thread that is less useful than it could be.

[911MRP]

... to be clear what triggered comment was that several people who commented on current purchase mentioned as part of rationale for considering latest Pirelli cn36 was their assumption that type was the original fit. In fact it was in the OP first sentence !

They did so in context of this thread as their input to reviewing the latest CN36 product.

Which based on historical information may not in fact be proven .. in fact probably more likely based on some evidence I’ve presented this morning is looking less
likely to be the case. The input and challenge to the original fit assumption and reasoning is relevant in that regard in context. Should things not be challenged here if evidence suggests points raised are probably not correct?

After all I did not initiate the historical “original fit“ presumption! Nor was I one who first harked back to the original Cn36 product in the olden days first by referencing examples intended for other marques and used in non Porsche hotrods either ..

I just responded to statements of others that at best remain unsubstantiated or even based on what data I presented, could be plain wrong.

I would suggest if the moderator is wielding the cut an paste or axe any references to CN36 being original fit for longhood TES these are what is are potentially misleading. And maybe distraction here ... More-so than the fact based points I presented to mutually question .. then based in facts begin to counter them.

Sad day of it is beyond the attention span of ESR member to read posts that have been researched and supported with evidence to rebut possibly incorrect assumptions or assertions made by others.

Sad day if information that folks bother to investigate and share challenges points in other’s posts gets put aside (rebuttal suppressed?) when questioning things that were stated or even providing data to help set the record straight.


Steve

[doigthom]

I may be wrong, but my research let me to believe that '67 Porsche came with Pirelli CA67. At least that's what I asked Harvey to put on my restored Fuchs. Still working on car so I can't comment on handling. Sure look good on wheel though. Probably irrelevant to this discussion.

[uai]

I've driven my first meters on CN36s on Friday. Still dialing in the Car (a BMW 1600-2 thats a bit souped up) but I have some really nice large radius good visible 180° turns near my place and thought after having some runs and adjusting swaybars and damping that my next tire will be an avon cr6zz. However the CN36 is probably a nice tire for everyday but I am a bit of a leadfoot.
Here pitstopping for swaybar adjustments and rear axle oil leak search - pls don't get me into the health&safety discussions with jackstands.....both jacks won't go at the same time

[911MRP]

I've driven my first meters on CN36s on Friday. Still dialing in the Car (a BMW 1600-2 thats a bit souped up) but I have some really nice large radius good visible 180° turns near my place and thought after having some runs and adjusting swaybars and damping that my next tire will be an avon cr6zz. However the CN36 is probably a nice tire for everyday but I am a bit of a leadfoot.
Here pitstopping for swaybar adjustments and rear axle oil leak search - pls don't get me into the health&safety discussions with jackstands.....both jacks won't go at the same time

Bit of a lead foot... Ha ha... I remember when you outran the 911 in your BMW estate on the disused circuit — Solitude iirc!

Hope you are keeping well ...but mustn't digress

[uai]

Bit of a lead foot... Ha ha... I remember when you outran the 911 in your BMW estate on the disused circuit — Solitude iirc!

Hope you are keeping well ...but mustn't digress

I'm having a bit of trouble with the carbs on the 1600 - perhaps I'll have to send them in to get a 5th progression hole added - currently it's "near to null" throttle or "all in" in between only lean stumble .. not the best for breaking in the engine. Suspension it a bit harsh in the rear - my fault - but those NOS rosejoint group 2 upsidedown bilsteins were too good looking, but otherwise a good handling car.

I've had the same situation in the M5 with a 996 two weeks ago - he said didn't believe how fast the old touring was through the bends. But there definitely the tires (Yokohama AD08R) are a factor.

[LongRanger]

. . . back in Milan . . .

. . . pinged Pirelli, just now


'Hello . . .

I have an old Porsche 911 that was originally sold with Pirelli tires. I see that Pirelli Collezione is offering vintage-style tires. The tire size for the Porsche is 185/70-15. Do you know which Pirelli tires were available in that size in 1969?

Thank you for your time! . . .'

https://corporate.pirelli.com/corpor...526.1590894467


See what they say




.

[RSTarga]

I can guarantee that the CN36 was NOT around in 1969. I seem to recall that I was finally able to get a set in 74 or so.
I don't know what kind of carcass the new ones are using, but comparing the performance of a 45 year old design against new tires is a waste of time.
When I switched to the original CN36 from the horrible Dunlops, the difference was notable, and much more forgiving than the XWX design, mores in the rain. However When I switched to Yokohomas in the 80's then Bridgestone, the handling was 100% better.
By the way, I could never get more than 5k miles out of the rears, front 10k. I would buy 2 new tire for the fronts and move the existing fronts to the rear. That said, I used to do a lot of high speed driving on long trips.

By the way I am pretty sure Siffert was a spokesman for one of the German tire manufacturers, Continental or Vredstein, etc.

[Bullethead]

According to Pirelli the CN36 was introduced in 1968... this is from their history page:

"A new technological era began at the end of the 1960s, after many years of study and experimentation, with the use of steel belts
on HR and VR series high-performance tyres for speeds of up to 210km/h and above. The 185 HR 14 size Cinturato CN36, created specifically for the Fiat Dino,
made its debut in 1968. It was the first radial steel tyre made by Pirelli for High Performance and Gran Turismo cars".


Anecdotally, my first big Healey purchased in 1972 had them. I do remember them as gravel magnets, but were good performance tires.

EDIT: In view of Steve's thoughtful contribution, it's likely that most Kardex tire entries for Pirelli are more likely CA67 or CN72's, and not CN36's, at least pre-RS fitment.

Since only tire brands are noted on the Kardex, we may never know.