Another Factory 67S mirror option

[jimhuiz]

So...I notice things. Like, subtle stuff. It borders on the pathologic but I feel I'm getting better all the time...at noticing the ever more arcane and barely noticeable stuff. I think it serves me well but most people find it annoying (Hi Don ;-)

On to the subject at hand.

I happen to need a 67S mirror for my car. I've been looking for a long time and I've gotten pretty good at noticing the subtle details of a correct 67S mirror even in fuzzy online photos. I think we all generally agree that there was an early stem and a later stem. The mirror body itself is the piece that generally stands apart from all of the replacement options with three basic features.

1. The day night tab is flat without a knob on the end
2. The back has a fine grained pebble texture with no numeric markings, etc.
3. The smooth lip around the edge is thinner and sharper when compared with follow on mirror bodies that are otherwise very similar.

Now...the 68 breakaway mirror head has a very similar look and feel to the classic 67S but obviously not the same stalk. It has the thicker lip, basically the same pebble grain, and a knob at the end of the day night switch. I've seen plenty of "refurbed" 67S mirrors that use this head and I've even seen one that had the flat tab used in place of the knobby day/night switch recently. I have several old 67S mirror shells and I'm pretty sure the flat tab from a 67S mirror can be snapped into a 68 body to help improve the similarity...but I can always notice the thicker more rounded edge profile.

I saw one of these 68 mirror head / 67 stalk mirrors on eBay about a year or two ago and commented to the seller that it was not original and the seller vehemently protested and said that it was. I'm generally not one to argue and am happy to give someone the benefit of the doubt...and in truth...I generally accept that it could be true that as the 67S mirror heads ran out, and the 68 mirror heads were aplenty, it would be typical of Porsche to go ahead and snap one of the newer heads on the 67 stem and call it even. In order for that to be true...it would seem likely that such a hybrid mirror would only be seen on a later car.

I used to own a nice little driver quality 67S that was very early (306036S) and it had the mirror stalk with the little extension piece...and a later mirror head from a Mercedes or something like that that replaced the original mirror head. I currently own 308162...so a car near the end of 67 model production, which is a 67N that came with a "67S" mirror originally...

Here's a pic of the car in period and what I think I see is a subtle bit of detail that is characteristic of a 68 mirror body. The reflection on the mirror body is missing the sharper edge and the outside lip is actually visible in this pic and it really shouldn't be if it were the skinny lipped 67 mirror body. Perhaps wishful thinking but again...I notice subtleties like this on a regular basis (weird I know). More to follow in the next post...

[jimhuiz]

So here is a picture of one of the hybrid mirrors next to the classically accepted 67S mirror. You can see that the fatter lip of the 68 mirror head should elicit a different reflection and really the 67S mirror lip is so thin it likely wouldn't show up at all.

Of course the most obvious difference is the day/night switch.

neither of these mirrors appear to be tampered with in my opinion, they're both tight and the sockets appear unperturbed.

Maybe you can now see why I might think my car in the pic above (which again is a later production 67) may indeed have a hybrid mirror from the factory?

Added a picture of the 68 Hybrid mirror from the front to compare with the Jennings car below...

[jimhuiz]

So it seems like this would be hard to prove out...and of course since it may be self-serving I can be perhaps be considered a biased source of information.

But I notice things...and I can't really turn it off. Like when I was reviewing the pictures of the totally killer 67S Jennings Rallye car Sotheby's sold. I looked over that car in detail because wow...what a specimen. Is there a more original 67 car on the planet? And you know...with VIN 308475S it is a later production car than even my 67N.

Now I can't really see the reflection of the mirror body in the first picture to see if it has the thicker 68 lip like I might expect...but in the second pic I DO notice a clear 68 day/night mirror toggle and a clearly thicker 68 lip. I have to say that I doubt that mirror head has been replaced on this particular car and although I would entertain differing opinions....really? That car is a true time capsule and as I understand it...not running or even really cleaned up. I can't imagine the seller doing a mirror head swap and I can't imagine someone doing it for some reason while the car was sitting for decades.

so I think I can say with confidence...there was a 68 style mirror head attached to a 67 mirror stalk near the end of 67 production.

And that is the mirror style I happily installed in my car.

YMMV...but did the price of 68 mirror heads just go up ;-)

[70SATMan]

Aside from the lip difference on 67 to 68 mirrors, the 67 body itself is ever so slightly narrower in height than the 68 and the depth of the housing is slighter as well.

Birds of a feather??? I've actually traced out the chrome SWB, 67S, 68 breakaway, original 70S (pebbled) and BMW breakaway mirrors on graph paper to make fine measurements because I could see the physical nuances.

[jimhuiz]

Good to know I'm not alone in this universe...;-)

Is the 67 height narrower and shallower because of the thickened lip? IOW - is the pebbly body the same dimensions? Just curious.

[70SATMan]

Good to know I'm not alone in this universe...;-)

Is the 67 height narrower and shallower because of the thickened lip? IOW - is the pebbly body the same dimensions? Just curious.

Oh yeah,,, It's a curse for sure.

The lip somewhat probably but, IIRC the appearance was mostly defined by slightly different glass shape. I'll have to dig out my notes but, it's really obvious when you're holding both and comparing. Aside from the obvious chrome SWB mirror, it was the 67S plastic body that caught me eye as "different" and that led me to look at the shapes more closely, not just the texture of the body molding or the day/night tab.

[jimhuiz]

Eric,

Do you agree that the Jenning's 67s Rallye has what appears to be a 68 mirror head on a 67S stalk? That was the main point of my post...albeit in a round about way.

Thanks,

Jim

[jimhuiz]

Maybe... Not convinced either way, based on the pics on my monitor. If there are other data points in "late" 67S's it would be helpful.

Yeah my screen grab didn't import in with great resolution. The link to sotheby's listing shows the best detail.

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/m...-rallye/793917

[Adore911]

I have also a data point confirming this thesis. Also an authentic mirror of a late 67S with the 68 housing and day/night switch. On the late 67S stem (without extension) they are certainly not an exception.

[jimhuiz]

Good to know Adore911.

In reviewing this thread it hit me that in the original picture I posted there MAY be both versions of the mirror styles in question in the same picture. The car behind has a non-factory rollbar, and this pic is from 67 so it' a 67 or older car (wipers on the passenger side), and the mirror appears to have a bit of a sharper edge banding to it. I know this requires a bit of squinting but to me it looks like an older, sharper mirror body (original 67S mirror head) compared to the leading car which has a "fluffier", rounder appearing mirror head.

I think this is an important issue for some folks out there who have later 67 "S" cars...it certainly opens up the possibilities for finding a correct mirror.

No...I don't think we want to try to find the VIN cutoff for the old style vs the new style ;-).