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Thread: Porsche 911s - Tour de France 1969

  1. #11
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    Xavier, well done on taking part this year! Was there no 911L in Tour Auto in 1968 or 1969? More generally, I don't think you need to replicate a specific car to get papers for a production-type model - it is normally sufficient to comply with the homologated spec

  2. #12
    Xavier Petit-Jean-Boret Xavier PJB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by one-two View Post
    Xavier, well done on taking part this year! Was there no 911L in Tour Auto in 1968 or 1969? More generally, I don't think you need to replicate a specific car to get papers for a production-type model - it is normally sufficient to comply with the homologated spec
    You are right, BUT you get far more better chance if the model you have/replicate has competed in le TdF.
    As per the L there were many Ls engaged in prestigious races/rallyes in Europe, none on the Tdf,.

    However, the L is a S without the engine, and mine has the period correct S engine for the car, I am able using the right homologation form used by cars in the TdF to get a HTP (PTH) and reah the goal I have
    O-G 26 - Early911S 2407Current Stable:Porsche 911 L 1968 Light Ivory - Porsche 911 E 1973 Ruby Red - Porsche 924 Martini 1977 - VW T2 Devon White/Green 1978.Porsche 944 Turbo Graphite Metal 1986 - Porsche Panamera Sporturismo E-hybrid 2018

  3. #13
    Xavier Petit-Jean-Boret Xavier PJB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soterik View Post
    In the top picture of car #84, I believe that to be a 1967 911S. The shot shows the side windows which to me are clearly chrome, not anodized aluminum.

    E
    your nickname is : cat's eyes, no ?
    O-G 26 - Early911S 2407Current Stable:Porsche 911 L 1968 Light Ivory - Porsche 911 E 1973 Ruby Red - Porsche 924 Martini 1977 - VW T2 Devon White/Green 1978.Porsche 944 Turbo Graphite Metal 1986 - Porsche Panamera Sporturismo E-hybrid 2018

  4. #14
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    You might have some luck trawling through the period French Echappement magazines which have loads of detail on cars and race results etc. Good luck.

    https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...ines-1970-1973

    Dave
    beltwerks will attend the LA lit meet.
    S Registry # 1660
    Le Belgique ST build.
    http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/vie...p?f=28&t=42628

  5. #15
    Xavier Petit-Jean-Boret Xavier PJB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stretch View Post
    You might have some luck trawling through the period French Echappement magazines which have loads of detail on cars and race results etc. Good luck.

    https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...ines-1970-1973

    Dave
    Cheers Dave, but needs to be 1968/1969- it seems what you are offering is 1970 on.

    X
    O-G 26 - Early911S 2407Current Stable:Porsche 911 L 1968 Light Ivory - Porsche 911 E 1973 Ruby Red - Porsche 924 Martini 1977 - VW T2 Devon White/Green 1978.Porsche 944 Turbo Graphite Metal 1986 - Porsche Panamera Sporturismo E-hybrid 2018

  6. #16
    Senior Member HughH's Avatar
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    Xavier
    I think that this photo of 179 VH 75 at the 1969 Rallye Lyon Charbonnieres would confirm that it was in Gp 5 (see writing on the photo.)
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    But apart from that the designation of which class they were in was sign written on the leading part of the drivers door in each car. In this other photo you can almost make out that car 84 was, as the entry papers say, SpT2.0 or Group 5

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    this one of car #126 is clearer showing it as GT
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    apart from that going through my photos #126, 293 AQ 92 was the ex works T/R acropolis winner 119 300 932, #121 was 3652 VA 75 another T/R 118 2 0779 and while you did not list it #177 was 355 MP 72 911R prototype R1

    I think #131 was 7153 OV 31?? but don't have vin details but anyway it would be a Gp3 car not a Gp2 / Gp5 car


    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier PJB View Post
    Hugh,

    as usual you are a mine of information. Thanks for that, very much.
    I need to be more precise on one key thing on my project is the fact that the car MSUT have participated/been engaged to the Tour de France Auto. Also, the FIA class/groups changed a lot from 1970. What am in in the FIA rules from 1966 to 1969.

    Back to my list which are the 911s (excluding prototypes) which have been engaged into the Tour de France Automobile 1969.

    I have now a special focus on #84 road registered 179 VH 75 and still looking for which FIA form is built from ( I guess this is group 5 with form 1451).

    X
    Attachment 533029
    Hugh Hodges
    73 911E
    Melbourne Australia

    Foundation Member #005
    Australian TYP901 Register Inc.

    Early S Registry #776

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier PJB View Post
    Cheers Dave, but needs to be 1968/1969- it seems what you are offering is 1970 on.

    X
    I was just showing you the type of content in the period mags.
    beltwerks will attend the LA lit meet.
    S Registry # 1660
    Le Belgique ST build.
    http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/vie...p?f=28&t=42628

  8. #18
    Senior Member HughH's Avatar
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    Xavier
    I have been through my database as well as a couple of regular sources including the racinsportscars site that you used.
    unfortunately i have not been able to get much more information on the cars in the 80 series start numbers (Gp2 and Gp5) although there was a lot of information on the prototypes and I have been able to fill in some more details on the Gp3/4 cars in the 120's start numbers but nothing at all on the S's in the 130's

    Attached is a summary table of what I have
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    However I was able to find an identity on car #82 that Jean sage used. It is an ex werks rally car from 1966, 303076, that was originally registered as S-WX 450 and competed in the 1966 Monte Carlo rally with Hans Walter (#139) the 1966 TdC with Elford (#69) and the 1966 Le Mans with "franc" (#35) all of which using the registration plate S-WX 450.

    By the time of the 1969 TdF however it had a different registration plate (partly obscured in the photo below with only 540LGO showing). After the TdF it did the 1970 Le Mans for Jean Sage and Pierre Greub (#64) but was entered by Haldi so it may have been Swiss owned by the time of the 1969 TdF?

    I am not sure how much this helps but as mentioned in a post above I would have thought that buiding your car to the Gp2 holologation papers should be enough to get you a HTP anyway

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    Hugh Hodges
    73 911E
    Melbourne Australia

    Foundation Member #005
    Australian TYP901 Register Inc.

    Early S Registry #776

  9. #19
    Xavier Petit-Jean-Boret Xavier PJB's Avatar
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    Focus on 179 VH 75. Found many pictures from the web searching based from the road registration number.
    That car has been restored and did many events, such as LMC and Tour Auto from the past years. I have to be very careful as the T/R #121 in TdF 1969 had the same racing livery.
    So for my project I might go with grp5, but with a different car than 179VH75, as she is restored and get to some classic cars events - I might pick a 911 that does not exist anymore. Let's dig further.

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    O-G 26 - Early911S 2407Current Stable:Porsche 911 L 1968 Light Ivory - Porsche 911 E 1973 Ruby Red - Porsche 924 Martini 1977 - VW T2 Devon White/Green 1978.Porsche 944 Turbo Graphite Metal 1986 - Porsche Panamera Sporturismo E-hybrid 2018

  10. #20
    Xavier Petit-Jean-Boret Xavier PJB's Avatar
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    These are the various FIA homologation sheets I found on the FIA historic database. These are pre 1970.
    - Form 183 is Group 3, Grand Tourisme (GT) class, 911 -> https://historicdb.fia.com/car/porsche-911-1
    - Form 503 is Group 4, Grand Tourisme Special (GTS) class, 1966, 911 & 911L -> https://historicdb.fia.com/car/porsche-911-0
    - Form 547 is Group 4, Grand Tourisme Special class, (GTS) 911 S -> https://historicdb.fia.com/car/porsche-911-s-1
    - Form 577 is group 3, Grand Tourisme class (GT), 911 T -> https://historicdb.fia.com/car/porsche-911-t-0
    - Form 1451 is Group 2, Tourisme class, 911 & 911L -> https://historicdb.fia.com/car/porsche-911-2

    Therefore, if I make an attempt (what a headhache !) to match homologation form to the 911s non prototype/non TR attending the 1969 TdF, that might look like :
    Assuming group 2 and 5 same FIA form

    Porsche 911 ? 2000 cat. TS2.0 #83 Form 1451 - group2 or Tourisme ( 1965 or 1966 normale, 1967 normale, or 1968 L)

    Porsche 911 ? 2000 cat. SPT2.0 #81
    Form 1451 - group 5 or or Special Tourisme (SPT)
    Porsche 911 ? 2000 cat. SPT2.0 #82 Form 183 or 503 - group x or xxxxxxx (1965 as per the Vin 303076)
    Porsche 911 ? 2000 cat. SPT2.0 #84 Form 1451 - group 5 or Special Tourisme (SPT) (Model ? seems to be a 1966 or a 1967)
    Porsche 911 S 2000 cat. SPT2.0 #85 Form 1451 - group 5
    or Special Tourisme (SPT) ( 911 S)

    I tend to believe that the privateers played with the model types and homologation sheets.
    One possible scenario : a 911 S or T or L or normale are 911 after all, and then they could entered a 911 S as a generic 911. As an exemple : form 1451 is group 2 / Tourisme and concerns only 911 coupé from 1966, add on in 1967 and another for the 911L in 1968.

    However the FIA homologation forms specifies in field #250 the HP. So for 1451 it is 130HP. Therefore how #85 can be competing in SPT with form 1451 ?

    Man, that is a very complex riddle indeed.

    Porsche 911 T 2000 cat. GT2.0 #124 GT class, form 577 -
    Porsche 911 T 2000 cat. GT2.0 #125 GT class, form 577 -
    Porsche 911 T 2000 cat. GT2.0 #126 GT class, form 577 -

    Porsche 911 S 2000 cat. GT2.0 #127 GT class, form 547
    Porsche 911 S 2000 cat. GT2.0 #128 GT class, form 547
    Porsche 911 S 2000 cat. GT2.0 #129 GT class, form 547

    Porsche 911 S 2000 cat. GT2.0 #130 GT class, form 547

    Porsche 911 S 2000 cat. GT2.0 #131 GT class, form 547
    Porsche 911 S 2000 cat. GT2.0 #132 GT class, form 547
    Last edited by Xavier PJB; 09-22-2020 at 10:35 PM.
    O-G 26 - Early911S 2407Current Stable:Porsche 911 L 1968 Light Ivory - Porsche 911 E 1973 Ruby Red - Porsche 924 Martini 1977 - VW T2 Devon White/Green 1978.Porsche 944 Turbo Graphite Metal 1986 - Porsche Panamera Sporturismo E-hybrid 2018

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