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Thread: What weight did the ST Repsol brothers have?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by HughH View Post
    Hello Baudett
    a build sheet for 1149 will exist. I dont think it is anywhere on the public record though and it would be very hard to access it from Porsche.

    i have lots of pictures of Porches in the Spanish and Catalan rallies in the early 70's as well as a lot of information on the rally results and some entrants in 1970, 71 and 72. However it is very hard to make it all fit together. There were between 8 and 20 rallies each year in that area and they are not well documented. My information is from official rallye records, various forums the repsol wiki that covers them as well as the EWRC results online (which for some reason seem to be the most inaccurate) there is a lot of contradictions in the information as well as lot of gaps in many sources. Most frustrating is that many of the photos I have seen on line seem to be mislabeled as well although that could in part be because some rallies were known by more than one name and there are big gaps. For example one source said that Pavon crashed Reverter's 911R at the rallye de Orsense in 1970 and another says it was in 1971 at that rallye.

    On the Doncel car #2 at the IX Rallye Ciudad de Oviedo in September 1972 I THINK that it had been registered with French plates 1736 CX 33 since earlier that year. I have photos of it purporting to be at the Firestone rally in March 1972 with those plates as well as one supposed to be at the 1972 Costa de Sol with start number 1 (It cant have been as it was destroyed by then but it may have been at the rallye Costa Brava in February although I cant be sure that Doncel was there but it has different sign-writing to the Firestone rally including "Sopral" on front hood instead of the repsol logo and a centre fill )

    However it is very unclear as to the exact circumstances. I am almost certain however that it was 1149 that was destroyed at that time. During 1972 1151 was also transferred to Lencina - I am not sure when but he certainly had it at the rally Del Sherry in September. Given that was after Doncel's accident in the other car maybe he got both engines in the deal. Maybe you could ask Lencina directy
    eladio's accident is where I want to continue! The derivation of 51 is interesting and I will surely look at it in more detail but I am interested in the 49. All the photos where Eladio's accident is cited are of the vehicle with French registration. The S / T repsol did not have this French registration, did it? I also found an interesting comment where it was said that "it was scary to see how the floors had reached the height of the steering wheel ..." 101 bones broke Eladio. If we look at the photo we can see the deformation of those floors. The Estanislao Reverte foundation page on facebook has the image that I quote as the image of Eladio's accident. The results may be confusing in wrc but I think that Eladio did not have several accidents of the magnitude of the one shown and that when an accident where he broke 101 bones is cited it is, this vehicle and not an S / T. Do you have any images of Eladio's accident? What differs from these images? Why is it said that the vehicle burned?
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    https://www.facebook.com/44130609927...type=3&theater
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    This last image corresponds to the other accident mentioned 911R. The foundation cites it in 70 and this image was what made me see that the chassis was the engine donor for the alpinche.
    https://www.facebook.com/44130609927...type=3&theater
    Last edited by _gonbau; 10-18-2020 at 07:35 AM.

  2. #22
    Senior Member HughH's Avatar
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    There are photos of a Doncel car with french registration prior to the event where it was destroyed. I don't know how many events but I think more than one prior. Those Zoll plates that were on both cars were only supported to be there for 3 or 6 months - they were customs export plates that gave you (and still do) a limited time to drive in Europe and then the car is not registered. You, better than most of us will know the crazy situation on importing cars to Spain during that time. Some cars were registered where you are, some in Andorra, some in France, possibly some in Italy, and some remained on Zoll plates for much longer than was legal because of the restrictions on importing cars (and registering them) to Spain.

    I suspect that by 1972 it may have been a bit hard to maintain the fiction that those two cars were not "Spanish", or still able to use Zoll plates, and the Doncel one was transferred to a friendly French registration and the other one, I think was sold to Lencina (although the photos I have seen still have the Zoll plates on it then)

    here are some photos of it with that registration
    I think that this first one was at the Firestone in March 1972. At that event I think he had start #4 (or at least that is what the EWRC site claims). I cant read a start number or event decal on the car but it is not the same as the livery when the car was crashed later in the year.
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    the next photo is of the same car but different livery again - see top of front fenders This time it clearly has start #1 but I don't know what of a half a dozen possible events it was- maybe someone else will know.
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    the next couple of photos are possibly from the same event as the start # is 1. Note the sponsorship is Sopral not Repsol as in the first photo. I believe that the next one is at Critérium Rioja 1972 10. 6. – 11. 6. 1972 but am not sure if the last one is there or not.
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    the as you have posted at the Ciudad de Oviedo the car was wearing start #2 with Firestone sponsorship on the rallye plate rather than Pirelli on earlier ones

    However the most confusing, to me part is this which was with the photo you loaded (below)
    " Photo uploaded by Ricardo Muñoz Llorca
    Parc Fermé at the start of the 1972 City of Oviedo Rally. We see the Porsche 911 S 2.4 Egreteaud, number 2, owned by Eladio Doncel and Antonio Mantecón."


    It explains the French plates BUT Was this jut a ruse to get around the Spanish rules and it really was 911 030 1149, which was destroyed at this rallye or was it a completely different car??
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    Doncel certainly had 1149 at the rally De La Lana in February 1972 (below car #2 1st )
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    Last edited by HughH; 10-19-2020 at 05:11 AM. Reason: added about rallye de la Lana
    Hugh Hodges
    73 911E
    Melbourne Australia

    Foundation Member #005
    Australian TYP901 Register Inc.

    Early S Registry #776

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by HughH View Post
    There are photos of a Doncel car with french registration prior to the event where it was destroyed. I don't know how many events but I think more than one prior. Those Zoll plates that were on both cars were only supported to be there for 3 or 6 months - they were customs export plates that gave you (and still do) a limited time to drive in Europe and then the car is not registered. You, better than most of us will know the crazy situation on importing cars to Spain during that time. Some cars were registered where you are, some in Andorra, some in France, possibly some in Italy, and some remained on Zoll plates for much longer than was legal because of the restrictions on importing cars (and registering them) to Spain.

    I suspect that by 1972 it may have been a bit hard to maintain the fiction that those two cars were not "Spanish", or still able to use Zoll plates, and the Doncel one was transferred to a friendly French registration and the other one, I think was sold to Lencina (although the photos I have seen still have the Zoll plates on it then)

    here are some photos of it with that registration
    I think that this first one was at the Firestone in March 1972. At that event I think he had start #4 (or at least that is what the EWRC site claims). I cant read a start number or event decal on the car but it is not the same as the livery when the car was crashed later in the year.
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    the next photo is of the same car but different livery again - see top of front fenders This time it clearly has start #1 but I don't know what of a half a dozen possible events it was- maybe someone else will know.
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    the next couple of photos are possibly from the same event as the start # is 1. Note the sponsorship is Sopral not Repsol as in the first photo. I believe that the next one is at Critérium Rioja 1972 10. 6. – 11. 6. 1972 but am not sure if the last one is there or not.
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    the as you have posted at the Ciudad de Oviedo the car was wearing start #2 with Firestone sponsorship on the rallye plate rather than Pirelli on earlier ones

    However the most confusing, to me part is this which was with the photo you loaded (below)
    " Photo uploaded by Ricardo Muñoz Llorca
    Parc Fermé at the start of the 1972 City of Oviedo Rally. We see the Porsche 911 S 2.4 Egreteaud, number 2, owned by Eladio Doncel and Antonio Mantecón."


    It explains the French plates BUT Was this jut a ruse to get around the Spanish rules and it really was 911 030 1149, which was destroyed at this rallye or was it a completely different car??
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    Doncel certainly had 1149 at the rally De La Lana in February 1972 (below car #2 1st )
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    the image you post is "in my thought" the key. I had not seen the French vehicle with Repsol decoration. At some point it was wanted to imply that this was one of the S / T? Did that event run as S / T Repsol?
    It is clear that the S / T twins did not have gas inlet on the hood, however this vehicle with French registration and Repsol decoration does, apart from observing the same black rear fin. I will keep rereading your answer, it is always a pleasure! Salds

    +

    I think that between the Basque Navarrese rally (which I still have to look for correctly photos of it) and the Firestone rally something happened. I do not know if due to the license plates or what could be but something happened so that they had to resort to the French vehicle (from my vision, a completely different vehicle) ... why did they add that black rear fin? Regulation?

    +
    According to this page, the Rioja criterion ran it with the French car, you can see the detail of the license plate.

    https://rallydraw.net/en/tienda/pors...l-mantecon-2o/




    the costa brava rally runs with repsol!
    https://rallydraw.net/en/tienda/porsche-911-en/porsche-911-1972-en/rally-costa-brava-1972-doncel-porsche-911/


    Rally Rias bajas 1972
    https://rallydraw.net/en/tienda/porsche-911-en/porsche-911-1972-en/rally-rias-bajas-1972-porsche-911-doncel/


    the 1972 Navarrese basque rally ran with the S / T repsol vehicle

    https://rallydraw.net/en/tienda/porsche-911-en/porsche-911-1972-en/rallye-vasco-navarro-1972-porsche-911-s-doncel-ferrater-1o/

    I will try to find images!

    in the firestone rally 1972 is where you lose the track of 49 according to I think.


    Last edited by _gonbau; 10-19-2020 at 06:10 AM.

  4. #24
    this image is tagged as firestone 1972 alberto.
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    https://www.facebook.com/ClassicWorl...type=1&theater

    can it be related to this?

    and french vehicle 1971
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    According to the images I see, Alberto Ruiz ran the same Firestone rally as Eladio. Eladio runs with the French car and Alberto with the S / T. According to graphic documents, I have not found results for Alberto Ruiz in Firestone 1972. I will keep looking.

  5. #25
    Senior Member HughH's Avatar
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    Baudett
    that image of car #10 at the Firestone was 1970 not 1972 I believe.
    In 1970 I have
    · Eladio Doncel-Ricardo Antolin (911 S) 1st car #8 1149
    · Ruiz-Giménez Alberto/ Castañeda Rafael 2nd car #10 1151

    Also in the Escudería Repsol Wiki https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escuder%C3%ADa_Repsol
    Ruiz-Giménez is not shown as competing at all in 1972. It is Doncel and Lencini in the 911S's
    I agree with you that the car Doncel is driving in the late part of 1972 (and the one he had the big accident in) looks like the Egreteaud one. Also in that photo you posted the caption states it is the Egreteaud car but owned by Doncel. I don't understand any of this and as I said at the beginning I have lots of photos (maybe close to 100) of the rallies there over a few years, as well as trying to put together a comprehensive list of who drove what in which rally in 1970, 71 and 72, from at least 6 or 7 separate sources to try to cross check the often conflicting information, and I cannot make a a coherent story out of it linking people to cars to rallies or at least one that I can trust
    Last edited by HughH; 10-20-2020 at 01:51 AM.
    Hugh Hodges
    73 911E
    Melbourne Australia

    Foundation Member #005
    Australian TYP901 Register Inc.

    Early S Registry #776

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by HughH View Post
    Baudett
    that image of car #10 at the Firestone was 1970 not 1972 I believe.
    In 1970 I have
    · Eladio Doncel-Ricardo Antolin (911 S) 1st car #8 1149
    · Ruiz-Giménez Alberto/ Castañeda Rafael 2nd car #10 1151

    Also in the Escudería Repsol Wiki https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escuder%C3%ADa_Repsol
    Ruiz-Giménez is not shown as competing at all in 1972. It is Doncel and Lencini in the 911S's

    I agree with you that the car Doncel is driving in the late part of 1972 (and the one he had the big accident in) looks like the Egreteaud one. Also in that photo you posted the caption states it is the Egreteaud car but owned by Doncel. I don't understand any of this and as I said at the beginning I have lots of photos (maybe close to 100) of the rallies there over a few years, as well as trying to put together a comprehensive list of who drove what in which rally in 1970, 71 and 72, from at least 6 or 7 separate sources to try to cross check the often conflicting information, and I cannot make a a coherent story out of it linking people to cars to rallies or at least one that I can trust
    I am going to ask and try to find information on the connection of Egraud and Eladio. I do not think I will find much but I will try, I would like to give the opinion that this may be related to the enrollment that you comment. He had spent time with the S / T Repsol provisional license plates, and given the press and the images perhaps they needed to pretend that the Repsol cars had been registered. I think this because of the photo of the car Frances (dressed in Repsol) and with the license plate. I think, whoever saw that image in the press, would have little doubt whether it would be one of the twin brothers or not, since at that time they would not stop for long to distinguish the vehicles. These are opinions, take into account if you are going to formulate a theory! Salds
    +
    The foundation says that Eladio rented the French vehicle for '72.
    what vehicle Egreteaud had in the year 72/73. Is there a record?
    Last edited by _gonbau; 10-20-2020 at 07:03 AM.

  7. #27
    the 1151 chassis appears in the license plate identification application as registered (it does not say registration date) but if it says model and year, the vehicle appears in the Spanish registries as 911 ST from 1970. How is this possible? Did they register as 911S or 911ST? This vehicle that Spanish documentation carried ....? Type ST? Who has this vehicle now? Maybe you can answer some questions that I think are quite relevant ...

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by _gonbau View Post
    the 1151 chassis appears in the license plate identification application as registered (it does not say registration date) but if it says model and year, the vehicle appears in the Spanish registries as 911 ST from 1970. How is this possible? Did they register as 911S or 911ST? This vehicle that Spanish documentation carried ....? Type ST? Who has this vehicle now? Maybe you can answer some questions that I think are quite relevant ...
    https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2019...sol-15958.html

    The current owner seems to be Nikolas Knoll from Munich.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by 928cs View Post
    https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2019...sol-15958.html

    The current owner seems to be Nikolas Knoll from Munich.
    I can't find contact information! Does anyone know if he is a user of any porsche forum? Thank you very much for the name in the same way!

  10. #30
    Jurguen checked the 1151. Did he look at the vehicle registration papers? If Spain traffic says it is a 911 ST 1970. In the technical sheet and circulation papers with which it was imported outside of Spain, what model was observed? 911 S or would you put 911 ST on the file? ... If someone has the email of someone close to the vehicle I would appreciate it. Salds.
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    Last edited by _gonbau; 12-03-2020 at 02:32 AM.

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