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Thread: Anti-ethanol fuel additive for CARBS?

  1. #11
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    +4 for the marine sta-bil, I've used it for about two decades in my cars at every fill-up with the exception of my modern BMW. I put the regular sta-bil in all of the gas storage bins I have and have never experienced a problem using it for lawn equipment, pressure washers, etc.

    I've never used the Sea foam on a car, but I used it on my golf cart and boy did it make a huge difference. Low consequences of failure though as my golf cart cost less than a dashboard for our cars.
    MBR #3926
    '71 911 T Targa "Rick White"
    '71 911 E "Karen"
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    '10 E61 "Vomit Comet"

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by raspritz View Post
    My engine builder objects strongly to my adding anything to the premium unleaded pump gas I put in my '69, which in Colorado is 91 octane, E10. About six months ago or so I saw a review of about ten different fuel additives done by some chemist who concluded none of them really do much of anything useful.
    Rich,
    I would be scared of E10. 10% Ethanol is what E10 stands for. 5% Ethanol fuels (is what most pumps carry unless noted), played havoc on my air cooled stuff...not only the Pcars but snow blower, aerator and anything else that is a 4 stroke or 2 stroke that sits for awhile. I was so pissed the last time I tore apart a carb that ravished by ethanol I swore never again. Older stuff wasn't designed to handle ethanol. I do run the 5% in my 2020 GLE350 and other newer cars as and don't worry too much as they don't sit very long and I have to think they were designed to handle the ethanol.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by terry911t View Post
    Rich,
    I would be scared of E10. 10% Ethanol is what E10 stands for. 5% Ethanol fuels (is what most pumps carry unless noted), played havoc on my air cooled stuff...not only the Pcars but snow blower, aerator and anything else that is a 4 stroke or 2 stroke that sits for awhile. I was so pissed the last time I tore apart a carb that ravished by ethanol I swore never again. Older stuff wasn't designed to handle ethanol. I do run the 5% in my 2020 GLE350 and other newer cars as and don't worry too much as they don't sit very long and I have to think they were designed to handle the ethanol.
    Exactly .................

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by WP935 View Post
    Exactly .................
    I have run 3 early cars with Shell pump gas and never had an issue winter or summer. No additives. Not stored either--driven all year when possible. But can be a couple weeks in bad weather.
    1969 911S Targa
    1970 911S Coupe
    1973 911T w 3.2
    1972 Alfa GTV 2000

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Frankr View Post
    I have run 3 early cars with Shell pump gas and never had an issue winter or summer. No additives. Not stored either--driven all year when possible. But can be a couple weeks in bad weather.
    From my perspective; the basic / real problem with the Ethanol fuel is when it sits in the "fuel system" for "long periods of time", it reeks havoc on the hoses, gaskets, seals, injectors and what ever else it comes into contact with.
    As you mention above, it sounds like you drive your early cars frequently, thus the fuel is circulated and burned frequently.

    For me a lot of my yard equipment, boat, cars etc. are used seasonally. Thus they tend to sit inactive for periods of time between use.
    In the past, with my daily driver, I would burn a tank of fuel in 3-4 days in the commute to work. I knew that I would burn the fuel quickly and did not worry about buying the "cheapo" ethanol regular fuel. Now the daily driver is getting a break, so I put Non ethanol in it.

    I am not trying to lobby or promote Non ethanol fuel and or down play the use fuel additives. It's your choice .............

    All I can say is that; the Non ethanol fuel works for me in all my toys /equipment and I am just passing along the info to my fellow motor heads. I'll pay a bit more up front but in the long run it is cheaper for me.

    In closing, I am pondering these questions;
    This thread is all about the use additives for Ethanol fuel and Ethanol in the fuel is the common related theme/problem in this thread.

    If Ethanol in the fuel, is not a problem, then why the existence additives to combat the Ethanol fuel ??

    Why the marketing campaign ??

    Why not eliminate the use of ethanol fuel and thus the additives ??

    Cheers to all,

    Happy Motoring and a Happy Safe 2021 to all .....................

  6. #16
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    frankr: Because you USE your cars regularly you are pretty much eliminating the issues that many have with what I refer to as "Crap-for-fuel". In your case the issue is that it this fuel is very hard on the non hard parts of your fuel system. Otherwise you should be fine and nice to hear about someone still using their 911s.

  7. #17
    '72 911T 3,0 liter MFI Albert Blue street/DE toy Jeff Higgins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john rice View Post
    frankr: Because you USE your cars regularly you are pretty much eliminating the issues that many have with what I refer to as "Crap-for-fuel". In your case the issue is that it this fuel is very hard on the non hard parts of your fuel system. Otherwise you should be fine and nice to hear about someone still using their 911s.
    This has always puzzled me - what is the difference between consistently using our vehicles with ethanol based fuels vs. letting them sit with ethanol based fuels? The exposure of the "soft" parts to the fuel - rubber hoses, gaskets, etc. - is the same in either case, it's just that one is circulating and one is not.

    Like many of us, I have a number of vintage vehicles that were never designed to be used with this fuel. Cars and motorcycles both. I have never, since the inception of ethanol fuels, had any trouble with any of them save for one. I have a carbon fiber gas tank on my 1993 Ducati 900 Super Sport. It is manufactured as two separate laminated pieces, the top "clamshell" or "tortoise shell" that slips over the base, with a vertical flange via which the two are bonded together. The ethanol fuel dissolved the bonding agent. Research indicated that this had become problem in boats as well, with often disastrous results as their plastic tanks, often buried deep within their hulls, separated in a similar fashion. Interestingly, the resin used in the laminates themselves was unfazed.

    I ride this bike incessantly. It's approaching 100,000 miles. No gasoline lingers in its tank for very long at all. It would not have made a particle of difference if it had been sitting or if I had been riding - the fuel is there either way. Nothing else was damaged, though. Nor has there been any damage beyond that in any of my bikes or cars.

    So what changes when they sit? Evaporation? Some kind of chemical breakdown?
    "God invented whisky so the Irish wouldn't rule the world."

  8. #18
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    Jeff, I"m no expert on this but this gas loves to suck up moisture. Way beyond non-ethanol. It's also much more caustic on many of the soft parts which older fuel systems weren't designed to tolerate. I've been playing with these cars since the 60s without serious problems- until the ethanol appeared in our fuel. I live in the SF North Bay and I have no nearby source of non-ethanol fuel. I've been using fuel treatments but I'm not sure they are that helpful. I realize that getting the fleet down to a couple of these cars would result in them being driven more frequently and likely eliminating issues I'm encountering. BTW it's important to carefully inspect your soft fuel lines in particular. A tiny leak can result in a nasty fire. There is a lot of info online for serious details. I just Googled "Effects of ethanol on fuel systems". I think this would provide more technical information than I can provide.

    I will mention that if you have a later fuel system [turbos in particular] that's highly modified E85 can help give considerably more power... but this is more for Renntech or 6speedonline forums than Early S.

  9. #19
    '72 911T 3,0 liter MFI Albert Blue street/DE toy Jeff Higgins's Avatar
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    That's kinda what I suspect as well, John - the problems with sitting vs using are more related to moisture absorption and/or chemical breakdown than anything else. If we keep cycling this nasty fuel through the system and never give it the time needed to start doing either - absorbing moisture or breaking down chemically - we should have little (or at least less) trouble. That has been borne out in my experience with my relatively "small" fleet. I can "do my duty" and cycle through them in maybe two weeks (more like a month or so over the winter), riding or driving all of them in that period of time, thereby keeping fresh gas in them. It's tough work, I tell you, but someone has to do it...
    "God invented whisky so the Irish wouldn't rule the world."

  10. #20
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    Many additives reduce already low octane. In Cherry Hill, NJ the Amoco gas station's Premium gas has no ethanol. Roll over here and fillip. Right across from Ponzio's on Rt70.

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