Fs: 9113600192 . . .

[thierry]

here is a picture of the VIN when i had the car long time ago
sorry for the quality of the picture but we can see on booth sides the asterisks..
in my opinion the tickness of the paint masks the asteriks on the recent picture ...
vin 192.jpg

[moito]

pretty positiv that the vin is true... also here no conspiracy to be found mr.gonbau

[69Sman]

the japan - Rob Woolford - Joe - Clyde car was 0197

Ah, thanks, well.... I KNEW it as 019....something!

[MPST]

Some people are destroying the market for old Porsche's, unbelievable......

[_gonbau]

I saw it in detail when I published it! You can see the bottom of the image. Nobody says conspiring but if I can tell you, if you show those things to someone who doesn't know, they will go around saying that this car is fake. To clarify things in these cars 100%, I don't think this is too much...in the same way, the mixture of seals continues to attract my attention when sealing the engine.
also the fact that different options are mentioned... These are the doubts that I have expressed. Or that's what I think... Another thing is what everyone wants to see.

[_gonbau]

Some people are destroying the market for old Porsche's, unbelievable......

That is something that would be excellent to me.

[_gonbau]

here is a picture of the VIN when i had the car long time ago
sorry for the quality of the picture but we can see on booth sides the asterisks..
in my opinion the tickness of the paint masks the asteriks on the recent picture ...
vin 192.jpg

thanks for the photo "in detail" when I saw the asterisk in the original photo I realized that it is my mistake because of the resolution of the image!!

[Tautvydas]

Hello, very good thread on this Bahia Red RS 2.7 0192. Can somebody share their opinion on this particular model or in general is this procedure of restamping non-matching correct type engine crancase and gearbox of 2.7RS back to 'matching number' car is morally normal and legal? Or is it like a fraud? I was looking at this particular car to buy to be driven in some events and driven a lot, but the main point that worries me is why it was restamped and seller doesn't hide it but can't tell the history about it. Thank you for opinions!

[HughH]

I think that you will find almost as many opinions on this topic as there are members of this board. My opinion is "it depends" which I know does not necessarily help you a lot if you are looking to buy something with a re-stamped number

In my opinion there are two extreme types of re stamped numbers - one that has been re-stamped by the factory on a blank replacement case with an "AT" preceding the number meaning that it is a replacement case, and with full documentation and the old case, and one where the actual number has been ground off and re-stamped by persons unknown with no documentation. Between those two extremes there are a number of different permutations.

These cars were made to be used and driven hard so, like most competition cars, there is a high probability of either an engine failure, or depending on the use in period, an engine upgrade on a different case. So it is not unusual to see re-stamped, or blank engine cases.

However at the same time in the past 30 or so years they have become very collectable and very expensive. Collectors value low mileage, original cars so there is a premium on having an "original numbers car" which is meant to mean that it has been lightly used and is like original (or more original that a non matching one).

Therefore there is an incentive for some people to create a "new" matching engine or in some (too many in my opinion) cases a new "matching numbers" body shell, or even a complete fake car as pass the car off as "original".

In some jurisdictions any re-stamping of numbers such as vin or engine number is illegal and is regarded as fraud. In others it is legal and, especially if fully documented, it is seen as something that will knock down the price but otherwise OK.

Certainly for collectors who show cars and have them judged, any "imperfection" is a concern so they will take that into account in deciding what to pay for such a car - or whether to buy it at all. However I think that that generalization does not cover some cases. If for instance it was an ex competition car with a strong race history or history of famous drivers with a replacement engine the history may outweigh the originality in a pricing decision

For the case that you are describing I dont personally think that a well built engine on a genuine case and using genuine parts is a deal stopper. It should affect the price you pay and the less history about how, when and why the engine was replaced / re-stamped the more that it would impact the price. Also I am not sure whether a replacement case that does not have a number is better or worse than one that has been re-stamped - it depends on the circumstance, transparency and documentation available.

For a car that is to be used a intended (as you seem to want to do) I dont think it is a drawback - the overall condition of the car (including the engine) should be a bigger factor. But it will impact resale value and probably the number of potential buyer. However at this stage YOU are the potential buyer so it should work in your favor - price wise

these car are 50 years old now, and a lot of them had a hard life - especially in the 1980's when they were cheap and a great base for both club racing and various forms of Marque racing like Porsche Cup. Any car that has had that history will almost certainly have gaps in their history - that are getting harder to fill as time goes on
That doe not mean that you could not try to fill the gaps around engine replacement , use, ownership etc over time if you did buy it
The current resources to do that are getting better all the time - and filling in blanks in the history can only increase a cars value in the eyes of the next buyer

At the end of the day you have to be comfortable with the price/ use/ information/ originality tradeoff