Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

Thread: One Newbie's Path to Buying a First Porsche

  1. #1

    One Newbie's Path to Buying a First Porsche

    I am new to the Porsche world and have benefited from the knowledge found in this community. I don’t yet have much to share back but can offer suggestions to others that also want to come up the learning curve from a low starting point. When I started the journey, T, E, and S meant little to me and SWB, MFI, and Fuchs meant nothing at all. If you fall into that camp, hopefully this note will help, especially if others add to it or correct what I get wrong.

    I am still a beginner but have made it as far as feeling good about my first 911 purchase. It is a one-owner 1971 T Targa that has spent the last 47 years in southern California. Here are some learnings along the way:

    • Selecting a Target Car. The 911 has evolved along a core path with many offshoots over its 50+ years. As the many topics addressed on this forum indicate, there are a lot of details to sort through.

    Peter Morgan’s book, Original Porsche 911, 1964-1998, is a wonderful resource to get grounded. It has a chapter on each early 911 configuration. Reading it helped me understand the evolution of the engine from 2.0L to 2.2L to 2.4L, of wheels from 4.5” steelies to ever-wider Fuchs, and how fenders, bumpers, trim, etc. changed over the years. I came to see how those details shaped my 911 preferences.

    The book also has information that answers many questions that are posed on this forum, such as production count by model, VIN range by model, and option availability.

    With that book as a guide, I targeted Targas in the 1970-72 range.

    • Picking a Purchase Process. I started out looking at the major Internet sites and was quickly captivated by Bring-A-Trailer. However, I eventually realized that BAT is not the right channel for me. I’m not expert enough to bid with confidence, especially on a car that I’ve never seen. I decided to avoid auction-based purchase processes and use the Internet only to identify cars that I could arrange for an expert to view.

    I also settled on a Los Angeles focus (i.e., I targeted cars from the LA area even though I live in the Midwest). I picked LA for three car reasons and one personal reason: 1) LA has a large base of early 911s, 2) the physical environment is friendly to cars, 3) there is a vibrant base of service providers for pre-purchases inspections (PPIs), etc. and 4) my son lives there.

    If I had it to do all over again, I would more vigorously explore engaging Bill Kelley, also known as Techweenie (www.techweenie.com), who offers services related to purchasing early 911s.

    I began to get traction once I settled on the LA strategy.

    • Arriving at price. It took me a while to arrive at a perspective on car evaluation that now seems obvious. That is, car valuation is a product of three primary factors: car type, originality/authenticity, and condition. By car type, I mean model year and build spec. For instance, there is a big difference in value between a 1972 S Coupe and a 1968 L (yes, those exist).

    I had a target price in mind; I then traded off between car type, originality and condition to stay within that price point. My goal was to buy a car that I can enjoy now but has “improvement opportunities” for later.

    I found it straightforward to determine originality (at least to the degree it matters to me), but hard to place a value on originality.

    A big driver of valuation is whether the car has its original exterior color, interior color, engine and transmission. That base level of originality seems to be worth +20% as far as I could determine (more to some buyers). Valuation shoots up with higher degrees of originality, as seen by a recent BAT transaction in which a 1973 T sold for $156,000.

    [BTW, the auction results on BAT are an excellent data set to understand value]

    This forum has a lot of discussion about how to determine originality. My layman’s view is that there are three paths: 1) obtain a Kardex (a sort of production build sheet), but those are only available for cars built before approximately mid-1970, 2) obtain a Porsche Classic Technical Certificate (“PCTC”), or 3) engage a person here on early911Sregistry that goes by the name davep (I don’t know his sources). Note that cars can have a Certificate of Authenticity but if it doesn’t already have a CoA, you can’t get one.

    People don’t seem to be too happy with the PCTC route, but that is the path I took. My experience was good. Here is a link to the web site that describes that program:

    https://www.porsche.com/usa/accessor...alcertificate/

    It costs $500, the car must be physically inspected (fraud safeguard) by one of only 11 Porsche dealers in the US, including one in LA. They quoted 4 weeks to complete the report, but I was given an informal indication within a week (i.e., the service department contacted me).

    To assess condition, I engaged Autostrasse (https://autostrassecorp.com) for a PPI. I was happy with their services which cost $300 for an inspection plus $300 for a leak down and compression test.

    Shout out to Dave B. at TRE Motorsports, who helped me along the way. I didn’t do business with them due to geography, but they seem like a good shop.

    What do I most worry about from the above decisions? That I will regret not getting MFI. I heavily weighted the share of my budget that would go to condition, in particular rust minimization, and also emphasized originality. That took me out of E and S range, though I might have been able to swing a ‘72T (which includes MFI).

    This note is running long so I will end it here. Perhaps others will add to it or correct me where necessary. Hopefully it will help somebody enter this interesting corner of the world.

    Thanks again to the early911Sregistry community.

    Howard
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  2. #2
    Senior Member nvr2mny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    1,814
    Welcome Howard! Beautiful Targa. Hopefully you’ll post more pics and tell us “it’s” story? The mid-west covers a lot of territory. Where are you at in the m/w?
    Reg#2218

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,198
    Howard -- You can't go wrong with a one-owner 2.2 CA car in a very rare color. Looks like you did your homework and worked with some of the many experts in our community.

    Welcome to the group.

    David

  4. #4
    Senior Member Peanut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,085
    Agreed. Sounds and looks like you got a good solid car, and in a great color. Welcome.

    Scott
    1968 911S
    1986 Carrera
    2006 Carrera S

    1973 BMW 3.0CS - Frances (gone but not forgotten)

  5. #5
    Lighting Specialist jaudette3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bend, Oregon
    Posts
    4,255
    Great to have you on board Howard!

    Cheers,
    John
    Lighting Resources for Hardcore Air-Cooled Porsche Enthusiasts”
    ——-
    John Audette - Porsche Lighting Anorak
    AC Shop: BEST-IN-CLASS Air Cooled 911 Lighting Parts => 911BestInClass.com
    AC Site: The Air Cooled 911 Light Resource => AudetteCollection.com
    Instagram: Please Follow => AC Shop Instagram

  6. #6
    912->911 conversion
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    631
    Great perspective Howard! Congrats on the purchase and welcome to the fold. When I bought my car 15 years ago, I only had one real driver - budget, and it wasn't much. I was fortunate to find something I could afford as I'm priced out of the game now. While you are in the Midwest, I'm in "the midwest of Canada" so California was the obvious place when I was looking as well. There was a term from the Vintage VW world that I came from called "Behind The Orange Curtain" which meant that the SoCal guys have no real idea of what the rest of the world is like car-wise
    Keith Adams
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Early 911S Registry #906 | PCA member IG: @912R
    1969 Blutorange 912R - 912 to 911 conversion
    1969 Mercedes 280 SE (W111) Coupe

  7. #7
    Very nice, I have your twin, 71 T Targa in metallic green and tan interior also. Looks like yours has 16 " wheels and a 72 flag mirror.
    Early S Registry member #90
    R Gruppe member #138
    Fort Worth Tx.

  8. #8
    Senior Member StephenAcworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Chelsea, Québec
    Posts
    3,188
    Love the colour... great looking car! And you should check out Brett Johnson's book too - he is in the process of revising an updated version which, if its anything like the 356 book he did, will be amazing...

    https://tpr-inc.com/about/
    1966 911 Coupe - Slate Grey - 304598 - still in restoration!

    Member #1616

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by edmayo View Post
    Very nice, I have your twin, 71 T Targa in metallic green and tan interior also. Looks like yours has 16 " wheels and a 72 flag mirror.
    You have a good eye for detail -- you've picked out some ways in which the twins differ based on one photo!

    I wasn't aware of the mirror change; I'm sure that is the first of many discoveries.

    I was aware of the 16" wheels. Why do you think the previous owner would have changed those? The Porsche Classic Technical Certificate indicates that the car came with 6Jx15 Light Metal Wheels (option 400, which I believe are Fuchs wheels). The 16" wheels have a chrome finish; perhaps he preferred that. Or maybe there is a performance difference that he preferred.

    In any event, getting back to the 15" wheels is on my list of possibilities for the future, though I think my wife might (reasonably) give me grief for spending $5,000+ on a one inch difference!

    For now, I plan on replacing the existing 205/55 tires which are 25 years old. That should get me going as I learn the car.

    Any guidance or perspective would be appreciated.

    HH

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by nvr2mny View Post
    Welcome Howard! Beautiful Targa. Hopefully you’ll post more pics and tell us “it’s” story? The mid-west covers a lot of territory. Where are you at in the m/w?
    Unfortunately, I did not take any pictures when I had the pleasure of checking out the car. I don't know what I was thinking. For now, the only photos I have are detailed close ups from the PPI or glamour shots from the sales listing. I've attached my favorite one from the sales listing.

    As for the car's story, I am very interested in that, too. I know bits and pieces and have arranged to speak with the seller to get the full story. The seller is the widow who says the car was her husband's pride and joy. He passed away more than 20 years ago. They bought the car new as a young couple. He selected the bright metallic green paint color because of their Irish heritage and her sparkle. Having met her, that makes total sense.

    I live in the Chicago area. I don't know what range is appropriate for a car like this (as in, how many miles does it make sense to put on it?), but I plan to drive it with pleasure across the midwest.

    HH
    Attached Images Attached Images  

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Message Board Disclaimer and Terms of Use
This is a public forum. Messages posted here can be viewed by the public. The Early 911S Registry is not responsible for messages posted in its online forums, and any message will express the views of the author and not the Early 911S Registry. Use of online forums shall constitute the agreement of the user not to post anything of religious or political content, false and defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise to violate the law and the further agreement of the user to be solely responsible for and hold the Early 911S Registry harmless in the event of any claim based on their message. Any viewer who finds a message objectionable should contact us immediately by email. The Early 911S Registry has the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary.