major fraud in the classic porsche business in Germany

[haul]

this all comes back to the vital 2 questions -
who has the original chassis plate and
what is it attatched to ?

cheers
Dennis

this reminds me of the words of Mr. Marinello on VIN tags:

Marco Marinello wrote in January 2011 In the Octane magazine:
“But one important fact is not mentioned: after 904-025 was crashed and returned to the factory, all mechanical components were removed and installed in another 904 that was still under construction. This car was chassis number - or, more precisely, production number - 088. The stamped steel chassis number plate and the manufacturer ID plate were removed from 025 and reinstalled onto production number 088. Production number 088 thus became 904-025 and 'lived happily ever after', SO to speak. So what is the status today of the crashed 025 ? Well, it is a factory built 904, no question, but in my opinion it lost its legitimate status as 025, when the factory removed the welded-in chassis plate and the riveted-on ID tag. The car became a nameless orphan.”

https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...t=borneo+green

[928cs]

I suppose if he had the wherewithal as cheaper and more certain than legal action if it ever came to that ?

Exactly.
The original body will be restored and the owner will decide what to do then. He will have two cars but only one set of papers.

[928cs]

I call those Spartacus cars. There was a Carrera Speedster a few years back and not the one you're probably thinking of, where one guy claimed to have the car and was building it. Turns out he had the doors, another guy had the front clip, and a third guy had the rear clip and the gearbox. Who had "the car"?

---Adam

Did any of them had a title of property and is there a proper stamp with the VIN on such a nice car?
It wasn't so nice at this stage, I suppose.

[Biancaneve]

Meanwhile ...

3_Porsche_911-S_Exterior_Frunk-2-1.jpg

[sithot]

I call those Spartacus cars. There was a Carrera Speedster a few years back and not the one you're probably thinking of, where one guy claimed to have the car and was building it. Turns out he had the doors, another guy had the front clip, and a third guy had the rear clip and the gearbox. Who had "the car"?

---Adam

84932 are two cars. Bruce Anderson's brother, Clark had photos of the accident. Cut in two. A "West Coast Operation" got part of the car and rebuilt it. It was never supposed to be resurrected but we all know money is the driver.

[911MRP]

Any update on the Aachen case from those who can see the press reports or who are local ?

[StephenAcworth]

DOesn't seem to be anything since the last newspaper report:

https://www.aachener-zeitung.de/auto...liver-schmetz/

[rhegra]

No verdict has been reached in the trial yet, and that will probably take a while. The proceedings will continue after the Easter break on April 15th, with further trial days scheduled until the beginning of June. It may be clarified on April 15th whether individual charges can be dropped for individual defendants and which witnesses are still needed. At the moment it is all still very unclear.

[rhegra]

Translation by Google: The Aachener Zeitung reports today: The presiding judge Matthias Quarch wished the two gentlemen in his always friendly way: “Have a good trip home!” Because for these two of the three defendants in the spectacular case involving sinfully expensive, extremely rare and here presumably counterfeit racing cars Oldtimer, this process at the Aachen regional court is over once and for all. The Commercial Criminal Chamber has dropped the proceedings against them - one a Porsche racing legend and Le Mans winner, the other a respected doctor from Düsseldorf.
No solid evidence has been provided in the trial days so far that they could have been involved in fraudulent transactions involving millions in classic cars and forged documents for them. And so Chief Public Prosecutor Jan Balthasar also agreed that the proceedings against the two would not be continued. Albeit with a gnashing of teeth, as he stated on record. Because the prosecutor at least wished that they should have dug a little deeper into their pockets for this setting.
There was still some haggling in the courtroom about what kind of fine the defendants should be given, as there was at least suspicion of criminal offenses in a few small points. Behind the scenes, they had already agreed on monetary conditions of 30,000 euros for the doctor and 3,000 euros for the Porsche expert. But after a brief consultation with the chamber, Judge Quarch made it clear that he would stop the proceedings even without any payment, which the public prosecutor's office did not agree to. And so in the end a rather symbolic 7,500 or 750 euros came out for charity. What the defendants, for their part, also accepted with a gnashing of teeth. It can be assumed that at the end of the trial, which lasted until June, there would have been acquittals. But neither of them had any desire to continue to answer in court.
That left the main defendant, who is said to have built the fake vintage cars in his workshop at the time. But also with regard to his person - in the event of a conviction - a very mild sentence is possible or likely. In a conversation, the chamber, the public prosecutor's office and the defendant's side wanted to agree on what it could lead to. There is already talk of removing some of the approximately two dozen cases from the indictment.
In view of this development, one must once again consider the dimensions of this case. After enormously complex investigations that reached international levels, there were no fewer than 18 house searches in several federal states in mid-2019. There was talk of an international counterfeiting gang. Previously, among other things, telephones had also been tapped. There was talk of damage amounting to up to 100 million euros. The main defendant had to be taken into custody and remained there for a longer period of time. He was only released for the time being after paying an immensely high bail. The counterfeit vehicles included a “James Dean Porsche” 550 and a Le Mans Porsche 917. What was initially more than 100 cases turned into just over 20 in the indictment. During the trial, however, the question repeatedly arose as to how one should actually define a counterfeit classic racing car. After all, there is no racing car that is still the same as it was when it left the factory.
The two co-defendants have now gone home without punishment. But they are still punished. And plenty of it. Because, as her defenders explained several times, her previously impeccable public reputation had suffered badly. The 77-year-old Porsche icon, multiple winner for the luxury brand and later also race director and brand ambassador, was even banned from the premises by Porsche - as a co-plaintiff in the proceedings. At least an apology is probably due, according to the Aachener Zeitung.

[haul]

wow, this is surprising....but very positive at least for JB- - hopefully he will get some reparation.