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Thread: Front Torsion Bar Upgrade: 20mm or 21mm ??

  1. #1
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    Front Torsion Bar Upgrade: 20mm or 21mm ??

    Hi Everyone:

    I have a 1971 911T that recently had its suspension refreshed with: Elephant Racing rubber bushings; Bilstein HDs; Turbo Tie Rods; and a 15mm Front TTB Sway.

    Initially, I left the torsion bars alone thinking comfortable would work. After I refreshed my engine, the squatting under acceleration and body roll became too much to bear while enjoying Angeles Crest. So, increasing the torsion bars became the "next" item.

    Pertinent Details: The car and I live in LA (crappy roads). The car runs 70series CN36s (I know, the sidewall isn't helping me). I don't track but prefer a firm ride (the T's stable mate is a 997.2 GT3). I increased the rear torsion bars to 26mm and, while the car is in the shop, I would like to address the fronts as well.

    Questions: (1) Should I go with 20mm or 21mm front bars; and (2) why?

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
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    This is on my 71T. I like it. I run same cn36 tires. Balance is good. But this isn’t a gt3. They lean and move around and that’s part of the fun. Learn to embrace the movement let it slide.

    Suspension: 21F/26R Torsion bars, 18F/18R factory mounted sway bars, turbo tie rods, bump steer spacers, elephant racing spring plates. New strut insert VonShock/bilstein digressive valved, New rear shock Von Shock digressive valved. Custom valved for 21/26 torsions + 2300 lb weight from Elephant Racing. New rubber top bushing elephant racing.

    I also have a 997 gt3rs.

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyerx View Post
    This is on my 71T. I like it. I run same cn36 tires. Balance is good. But this isnít a gt3. They lean and move around and thatís part of the fun. Learn to embrace the movement let it slide.

    Suspension: 21F/26R Torsion bars, 18F/18R factory mounted sway bars, turbo tie rods, bump steer spacers, elephant racing spring plates. New strut insert VonShock/bilstein digressive valved, New rear shock Von Shock digressive valved. Custom valved for 21/26 torsions + 2300 lb weight from Elephant Racing. New rubber top bushing elephant racing.

    I also have a 997 gt3rs.
    Thanks, Spyerx! How is the ride up front with the 21s? Comfortable? Jarring? Overly firm? Does the front bobble (porpoise) on our horrid freeways??

    Based on the 3RS, Iíll trust your judgment. (Off Topic: Which color/variant do you have?)

  4. #4
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    21s are still very soft. I run 23s on my 73 T and that makes for firm tight handling. But OK on streets with the softer older style tires. Shocks are Bilstein sports
    1969 911S Targa
    1970 911S Coupe
    1973 911T w 3.2
    1972 Alfa GTV 2000

  5. #5
    Senior Member teenchy's Avatar
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    Similar suspension setup to spyerx: Bilstein Sports front/rear; fronts are inserts in Boge housings. Factory 15mm sways front/rear. 21/27mm torsions front/rear (hollow Sander, Elephant plugged/plated). Turbo tie rods/bump steer kit. All suspension rubber replaced with Elephant rubber. Tires are 195/65 P6000s on 7X15 Fuchs.

    Could be stiffer but I think a fair compromise since I drive on some fairly potholey roads in PA/NJ/DE.

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    70 911T Sportomatic coupe
    ESR #1474

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankr View Post
    21s are still very soft. I run 23s on my 73 T and that makes for firm tight handling. But OK on streets with the softer older style tires. Shocks are Bilstein sports
    Quote Originally Posted by teenchy View Post
    Could be stiffer but I think a fair compromise since I drive on some fairly potholey roads in PA/NJ/DE.
    Ok, I think you guys have me convinced to go with 21s instead of 20s. What I don't want is a front suspension that "slams" into bumps, road imperfections and/or concrete transitions. Any other input ride quality on would be greatly appreciated.

    (The cars posted in this thread look great, by the way!)

  7. #7
    I run stock SC torsion bars on my 69 and find that a nice set up.
    1969 911 E #824

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenTea View Post
    Thanks, Spyerx! How is the ride up front with the 21s? Comfortable? Jarring? Overly firm? Does the front bobble (porpoise) on our horrid freeways??
    Based on the 3RS, I’ll trust your judgment. (Off Topic: Which color/variant do you have?)
    The ride is fine, not jarring, but it is quite a bit firmer than stock. When I first got the car it had no sway bars, a higher ride height, and stock torsions and it was FLOPPY. Now it feels controlled, supple enough, and proper sports car, without going so far it feels like a later car (ie, I don' want it to drive like a G or a 964 etc). The suspensions on these aren't super sophisticated so there are limits. If you mean the 405 expansion joints through the west side... I dont notice it porpoising there.

    Suspension feel and setup is pretty personal, I went with this setup after doing quite a bit of research and was happy enough I haven't changed it.

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