kommissionsnummer

[_gonbau]

Hugh is quite correct in his description. The Komm-nr is a combination of the "ZH" or distributor code and the 6 digit number. I have a page of consecutive VIN's and the Komm-nr range is a bit odd; the first two digits are between 38 and 48 with the majority in the 4x's, then the last 4 digits are in the 0001 to 1050 range. So it appears there is some coding included. The distributors were coded as 1xx for Germany and a two letter code elsewhere. If a T was appended, that meant it was a Tourist delivery; but from what I see, this means it was ordered through the distributor from a foreigner instead of being ordered from a local dealer/distributor and delivered overseas. So, SG indicates that it was ordered from the local distributor in Spain but may have been delivered elsewhere; there was an M option for factory delivery.

I have a question, as you say the T in the technical sheet would mean sending tourist! Is there any other image where the same T is shown with the same meaning?

[_gonbau]

Does anyone in those data have a kommision-number for Hahn fellbach? 115 ?. Is it coinciding with the first digit of my number in this case 5?
Or in case it is not Hahn, is there evidence of a vehicle with a commisionummer that starts with 5? according to the file ... they don't have that data and I wonder then, why does it appear in the "report" of my vehicle


I also wonder what these fields mean ... Addresses? Names? Regarding the S / T file, I also seem to see a 4. Thank you for the description of the fields for which I have not asked! They are useful to understand the complete technical sheet

[HughH]

I also wonder what these fields mean ... Addresses? Names? Regarding the S / T file, I also seem to see a 4. Thank you for the description of the fields for which I have not asked! They are useful to understand the complete technical sheet

Do you mean farbe n.muster etc

farbe n.muster is in the box headed "lackierung". It is the paint color of the body and in this case it is farbe n.muster or paint to sample code 999
In the case of this specific car the actual paint color is shown further down the sheet that is not shown in your extract (marked with a +) ) it is code Nr. 172 a Mercedes Benz color anthracite gray

the next box is innenausstattung or "interior fittings" (typically interior carpet/ leather / vinyl colors etc) which states black leatherette code 1

the final one is the seats which in this case is black leatherette with corduroy code 1 for black and 12 for leatherette with Corduroy center part

[_gonbau]

"Our production infos (like the one you attached) were transferred into the Porsche Classic System / Data Base. With building this system up they might have used other sources f.e. from the Marketing department over the past years in addition to ones from / at the archive. So they surely don´t make up any data."

Under this clarification, what information exists on how the porsche classic system database was formed? It was formed with different BD, does anyone know which ones?

++

I reread the publication, thanks for the explanation of the numbering of the chairs etc ... every day I have more clear that without the help of the forums I would know little ... if I already know something.

[_gonbau]

something new about the kommi? I still find it interesting. I have not been able to find any that start with 5 like my case. At which dealership did Hahn deliver his vehicles? Always on 115/002?

[_gonbau]

what could 100 mean before the "sequential number"? In the other sheet shown at the beginning this number does not exist but there are Letters... then?


this data is interesting to me because my car does not "have to know number 100" before the kommitnumber but... It is the closest I have seen so far in relation to my vehicle...?

100 520001

+

I agree there are (at least) three separate series of numbers that refer to an individual car and they relate to different parts of the production cycle
All of the ones I have seen (except the one printed on your COA type document) have a number or code before the six digit number signifying the handler from where the order originated. There are either a number like 100 for werks, or SG for Spain or in the one you posted UF forVolkswagen Of America Inc. Western Region Culver City
Finally the 6 digit numbers I have for the 1973 MY cars are back in the 100000 - 200000 range so there may have been a reset of the sequential numbers OR the numbers may not be fully sequential and a code is in there that I do not have enough examples of to determine.

In the case of my vehicle... Could the number 100 be in front of the kommissionnumber given the relationship with this image that I show? As I reread Huhg's messages, I understand that in 1972 there was no vehicle with such a high Kommitnumber... Numbers were reserved or something similar? In the Spanish ID the first digits were saved for the "Royal family" etc... such as Porsche, which kept some chassis for its prototypes... Could they also "reserve" kommission numbers?

+

Finally the 6 digit numbers I have for the 1973 MY cars are back in the 100000 - 200000 range so there may have been a reset of the sequential numbers OR the numbers may not be fully sequential and a code is in there that I do not have enough examples of to determine.

and if that vehicle is an order for the MY1973 family. In it you can see that that number was not reset, in that vehicle? Or I'm wrong...?

+

also ask... If my vehicle is from January 1, 1972. And this "special" vehicle is from the end of 1972... How would it be possible for my kommit to be higher if it was delivered several months earlier? no sequential relationship?
In some case the kommit number could be "transformed"? In the case of the ST car converted to RS. The kommit did not change right? As they have said before, this number is given based on the order of the "dealer" or "whoever requests it" based on it, then the other "numbers" are "built"... then. The kommit never changes right?

[HughH]

Baudett
the 100 in the Komm number (order number) is the reference for the distributor/ "handler" that placed the initial order, in this case 100 for factory
you are correct that sometimes these are two letters instead of numbers
That is because by that time most of the distributors were classified by three digit numbers at other earlier times there two letter (mostly) country codes for the majority of the non German distributors and that code would be the first part of the Komm number

The Komm number was only for recording the orders placed by distributors and getting them into the production process - from there they were assigned "production numbers" (at least after 1968) and finally when the car was almost complete they were assigned the actual vin number.

also there is no direct link between the komm number (when the order was placed) and the vin or when the car was completed / delivered
In this case as it was very much a one off special car it would have taken a long time to build so it was likely that it would be finished well after orders placed at the same time for standard cars

[_gonbau]

Baudett
the 100 in the Komm number (order number) is the reference for the distributor/ "handler" that placed the initial order, in this case 100 for factory
you are correct that sometimes these are two letters instead of numbers
That is because by that time most of the distributors were classified by three digit numbers at other earlier times there two letter (mostly) country codes for the majority of the non German distributors and that code would be the first part of the Komm number

The Komm number was only for recording the orders placed by distributors and getting them into the production process - from there they were assigned "production numbers" (at least after 1968) and finally when the car was almost complete they were assigned the actual vin number.

also there is no direct link between the komm number (when the order was placed) and the vin or when the car was completed / delivered
In this case as it was very much a one off special car it would have taken a long time to build so it was likely that it would be finished well after orders placed at the same time for standard cars

From what I understand, you say that the special car has a high number because it took time to build the vehicle due to its modifications? But... The Kommit does not take place from the beginning as you say, before the vin? So... what would this number have to do with the one on my car. You say that this car is special and because of the time it took to make it, it bears the number 52001 being a 73 model. My vehicle being a 72 model has the following number 530104 (I am ignoring the number 100). According to what I should understand from your words Huhg! The 73 vehicle due to its late construction and special parts... should it also have a higher number than my vehicle? If the special car was requested ... when was it requested? November 72? That's when the Kommit is created? So....If my vehicle was also ordered on those months (I think November or similar) how is it possible that my car has higher numbers being a model of the year before the other? ? In the theory that you comment... Because it is a special request (The doctor's vehicle) the vehicle takes time to build Ok. But... isn't the Kommit supposed to be given to a vehicle before any other number? How would it be possible that in 72 there were Kommit that start with 53 and others with 52?
On the other hand, when we found the number 100. In which distributor did the factory deliver its vehicles?
To my limited understanding...My Kommit number on my vehicle should be 115 53104....Though I think if I ever look at the original build document, I'll find something else....
+
I would also like to ask... a long time ago they said that it was normal for a dealer to invoice a vehicle that belonged to another dealer or the factory.... The case I am talking about is one of the ST. What was invoiced in Hahn despite being a factory... So... Did the factory use the Hahn dealer to deliver its vehicles? Or did you use other dealers?

https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...highlight=hahn

[HughH]

Baudett
so far as i know the prefix for the Komm number on your car is not know. Is that correct? only the series number 530104. Since it was delivered to Hahn I think we can make an assumption that it was ordered by them too. Their handler number is 115 as you note.
My ASSUMPTION therefore is that the full Komm number for your car was 115 530104. Your production number quite clearly shows it was a 1972 model year build and it is clear that it was completed in Dec 71 or Jan 72.

therefore my ASSUMPTION is that each handler has a " numbered booklet with consecutive numbers", for the want of a more accurate description, that carries on from year to year and your car was number 530104 (or maybe 30104 with the 5 representing something else - maybe all started at 50000?) of all cars ordered via Hahn since the beginning.

On the other hand the Furhmann car with the komm number 100 520001 was order 520001 made by the factory for one of its own cars (or possibly number 20001 with the 5 standing for something else)


that is each handler (order generator) had its own series of numbers that were attached to its handler number to create the full komm number (and there may even have been other numbers in that full number representing something else

i am sure someone with deep knowledge of the factory order system could help interpret here - I am just assuming from a series of data point that dont give the full story

[_gonbau]

I do not know my Kommit prefix. If someone who has seen the construction document of my vehicle knows it.
But I think that at least it should be 115 (hahn) my other question is if there are subdivisions within the prefix... Hahn delivered in 115/02. So... in the Porsche papers, only the "mother" distributor would appear 115 and not "its branches"/002? Is there a kommit with a distributor subdivision in its prefix?
So... each "dealer" has a "book" SUPPOSEDLY....in those books they write down their requests for vehicles. In the case of the factory, your book, let's say it would be of numbers "100" (these where they were delivered)? and Hahn would be the numbers 115.
I want to try to see this well so I leave it without "expand".
Regarding number 5... I need more examples. I tried to associate it with an explanation that you gave me a long time ago in another post where the numbers ranged from 1 to 5 for different deliveries (tourist, local, exfactory)... but I didn't finish seeing it, so I would be completely wrong.


on the other hand it occurs to me. 52 for the factory and 53 for hahn. If it were due to proximity or antiquity...Hahn was a special "place" for the factory? If this were the assumption...obviously it would be wrong because there are no higher kommit if not lower ones... So I don't know What to think right now...I'll keep looking! Surely we can find some relationship between all...