kommissionsnummer

[_gonbau]

Hi Hugh
In the early 70s price list for U.K. market it is clear that Porsche Cars Great Britain as sole Porsche concessionaire for the U.K. set a vehicle spec that was in in some details different to the equivalent spec for German market. It says so on the sheet given to dealers and customers. Various items were offered inclusive in U.K.price because some 911 were nearly twice the price of etype here so probably felt needed some luxury touches as standard — example being for some models U.K. had tinted windows standard here.

Don’t disagree c16 being shorthand for country regulatory stuff etc but less clear how those luxury extras for market positioning purposes got picked up operationally. Another source of configuration complexity to control and communicate beyond regulatory stuff. Possibly implicit from some combination the model no if together with the codes like c16 and/ or EG so part of the country bundle perhaps?

We rarely see the detail in full information packet behind fahzeug-auftrag cover sheet and even the front pages are not commonly available. Porsche clearly not happy for those becoming like the kardex where they somehow lost control of what is clearly internal confidential data which on kardex includes customer personal data.

Maybe in that era the planning system (planungs -term) was bespoke in house software so configuration logic including the local nuances got coded there?
I’m assuming packaged software wasn’t so commonly available so maybe Porsche developed and maintained custom written point solution systems in that era.

On the few fahzeug-auftrag examples for U.K. I’ve not noticed the m-option for things
like inclusive tinted windows being explicitly listed on the form. If that is so then doesn’t seem like the dealer used the m option for the inclusive luxuries on the punched card order and made it free of charge on invoice for markets.

Thus is bit in the weeds but your comment focusing on regulatory made me curios how/where local market spec nuances got handled. Each market would have had the legislatoion stuff and some markets would’ve had the local market nuances adding a layer.

Not looked carefully. Many ways this could have been done but hard to tell from the footprints in the sand — the bits and pieces of paper we sometimes try to interpret fifty years on.

Steve

PS c16 makes sense for Fitzpatrick as Brit maybe he preferred a RHD car even though he lived in Spain. Likewise Indonesia, it is one of about 80 countries that drive on the left. I’ve read that’s over third of the world’s population. I understand that despite being under Dutch control Indonesia didn’t switch even after Napoleon forced the change on the Netherlands away from age old self preservation reason I explained in a previous post.

my question regarding what you comment. At what point did you use software in the factories to manage orders in your case? In 1972 software was already used for this type of management? Or were they still made by hand/machine?

[_gonbau]

another example of which the following things stand out. Delivery date 1/1/73. Colour: 4646.
And.

2311
https://getyourclassic.com/item/porsche-911-t/

+


+

another Kommit number 1963
AP-42

+

J1-13
https://www.automobilia-ladenburg.de...&#&gid=1&pid=1


357-186
https://www.automobilia-ladenburg.de...&#&gid=1&pid=1

Secuencial Kommit nummer.
357-185


Ma-23

[_gonbau]

Looking at this card again, a theory about Kommit numbers occurs to me.
the original letter:

In it we can observe different stages, a detail that I share since I do not know if this is correct or not.
We proceed to remove from the sheet the letters and numbers that seem to be added after the writing of the sheet (the letters in black or red that do not correspond to the previous style....


In this other "biased" image of the original "we can see what the record would be like before the "modification" of the vehicle"...
I understand two things about her that I would like to ask.
Were these Sheets "pre-filled"? If you look at the start of the engine number and the start of the transmission number they are present since that sheet was first made. From what I think .... If those numbers are not complete there. And the kommitnumber if it is complete. That means that the engine or transmission number does not influence the creation of the Kommit number. But if this is so and the kOMMIT number was the "first" registration number etc... how was it different between orders for one type of motor or another?
I guess you have to keep comparing kommits to try to decipher them....
*
if this were as I say. How could I have assigned a complete production number? I don't notice writing differences in the top corner production number so I should think it's there from the time the sheet was written and the kommit number.

In the case of this sheet... Were the Kommit number and the komission written at the same time without even having a VIN number? Since the VIn is represented by a sticker. And the sheet is printed, it is understood what I said before, the data is "filled in". We see the case of the gearbox, it has "the prefix" written. Could someone tell me what would be under the VIN sticker? Is there a prefix in the VIN as well as in the transmission and engine?
when were those dates sealed? at the same time or the one in the upper corner was before the date on the VIN sticker...Being the same day and not seeing differences between them...I would need more examples of sheets or... has anyone ever found one "blank" build sheet? There must be stubs of those leaves that I understand must still have the Porsche but has never seen one without "complete"?
+

[_gonbau]

Investigating the numbers and the starkey list, I have some doubts about a vehicle. 3600412. with kommit number 520179. My question is the following. Why does this vehicle have such a low creation "number" in relation to the others shown in the image? Number 1033624. Does anyone know who this vehicle was intended for? And why so low the number?
ZH:EG
Looking at the engine number... it has a "high number" compared to those on the list.
***era un numero reservado de kommit que implicaba al chasis aunque el vehiculo se acabo Mas tarde (el motor es el ultimo paso)
+
the other vehicle from year 73 month 1 with kommit number 520001. This vehicle has ZH in 100.
The vehicle 3600412 has the ZH as I have already commented in EG (Great Britain, as has been commented in this thread) having the kommit number 520179
For what I would like to ask... these two vehicles would be on the same list with a difference of 178 "kommit number" or having different ZH would that list not be the same for both vehicles...? Was EG administered from Germany? I see that we have EG vehicles with different kommit numbers, so I wonder... Why does vehicle 360412 have a kommit that is not related to any other EG on the list?

+

question about 3600945
Shown above. If I understand the delivery dates correctly. What is the "finish" date of the vehicle that appears on the construction sheet? The one that is marked on the top with the stamp after the construction of the token? If this is so, the question arises... The sticker on the gearbox mentions "april". This is correct? The highest date I see on that sheet is from the gearbox. I ask. When someone replaced a gearbox is the "sticker" on the build sheet also replaced? If I am seeing the dates correctly... Is that gearbox a replacement?
+
I think that ZH 099 and 100 may have the same kommit listing.could be?
Is the vendor code directly related to the kommit number?... Or can the kommit number exist without a previous prefix... I mean. Can any vehicle that already has a kommit number assigned change the ZH if the factory decides to sell the "asset"? Could the factory as "factory/family" order a special car in any ZH in Germany? Or did they only refer to the internal ZH 099 100?

+

making a few comparisons you can see that the kommit numbers have nothing to do with the distributor, in the lists shown we can see different vehicles sold by the same distributor (I suppose, temporarily close) in the case of EG, we have several vehicles with kommit 52xxxx and also with 200XXXX. Could you think that because of the management that Germany did? But observing another vehicle on the list with dealer number 112 and kommit number 52xxxxx... we also happened to observe that in that same list and that dealer has assigned 21xxxx vehicles.

of the lists shown...
observe 1033626 with VIN number 3600447 engine number 6630471 EG with kommit number 520176
observed another vehicle number 1033628 with VIN number 3600445 engine number 6630472 EG with kommit number 520170
observe how close the production number is, two figures from each other, the same effect on the VIN number of both vehicles but not on the engine number, which is sequential.
Finally we observe the difference of kommit numbers of 6

In that same list we have a third vehicle more distanced (but nothing)
1033624 con VIN 3600412 y motor 6630436 EG numero kommit 520179
+
****Does anyone have information on any of those 3 vehicles?
+

How was the flow of vehicles to GB? Does anyone know a little about the history of this, who managed it, etc... I'm sure there's information on the forum but I don't know how to locate it. What vehicles were the "English" market satisfied with? Porsche ever had a problem "supplying" the EG market? Or did you always have spare vehicles?

is this vehicle 445?


http://www.dungannonmotorclub.com/19...irestone-rally
GIA-6
https://www.ewrc-results.com/plates/?plate=74018

https://www.tomhartleyjnr.com/es/car...hd/#gallery-14

the 447


Does "the first 500" have to do with all this?

+

vehicle 446. EG Market, number kommit 01xxxx
With this we can see that being for the same market (EG) the kommit number differs. Do you mean that this last vehicle (446) was supplied from another place? In the kommit number of an EG ((or Hong Kong)**) vehicle.... What is the prefix? EG but... how would they know which distributor to order the vehicle for example? If we understand that the kommit number is published in the build sheet, being the "dealer/manufacturer" the prefix of the kommit... How do we know who ordered the EG vehicle? Who was called to receive an order? Did the person in charge at EG call the factory directly? But, they were not listed as factory 100/etc... but as EG. These vehicles containing different Kommit numbers were made at the factory... but where was the sale recorded? And how could you know that data if EG was noted on the construction sheet. The EG vehicles left directly from the factory by Train, etc... for a trip to EG?

[_gonbau]

Nice document....
*What modifications are we talking about that were not contained in the z program? and in that case. How were these modifications recorded? because there are vehicles that are very clear about the z antrag (in the year 72) and others from that same year for the same use call it something else... (being one of the first....) if the program in the case of the sports cars of 72 was clear. because it was not used in the 21 st?
in another case... varying from the St ... I understand that anyone could request a "special" order... some with z antrag numbers others not as the text indicates, So... there are vehicles that have z antrag even though they are not listed on their build sheet since they had no "organization" yet?

+

can the kommit number start from "high number" and as it occurs...go discounting instead of adding? Sorting some numbers I think about this since something strange has come out... If I order the vehicles mentioned by the production number... the order is exactly opposite to what if I order them by kommission number

1033624 komm 520179
1033626 komm 520176
1033628 komm 520170
1033648 komm 520105

[_gonbau]

This is the first document that would exist on a Porsche vehicle? Is the creation document that is sent from the distributor to the factory correct? In it you can see the Komm to fill. Did the dealer fill in this data based on the data established on that sheet by the buyer?... On this sheet, he could mark the type of engine he wanted, the type of car, etc... This sheet, what date is it from? ? Has this sheet been used forever to order a vehicle from the factory? We see that it has to be signed by the director of the Zh concessionaire. Therefore, I understand that all the orders were confirmed by the director of the ZH before the factory itself, is this correct? The document also mentions delivering a vehicle as part of the payment. I'm interested to know what was done with those vehicles. If an owner had bought a vehicle in 1970/71 but a better one came out in 1970, was there the possibility of delivering the previous vehicle to have a discount for the new vehicle? If so, these data in which documents are collected? On the other hand, this sheet that I show. Where is it kept? I have never seen one completed so I understand that "they have little interest" (according to the eye that looks for) and that is why they have never been shown. But I ask... This sheet, which is the first sheet on a Porsche request. Does it exist today? If so... is it saved in the archive file? Is it kept in the museum? Does "pepe" have it in his garage? ........
https://www.automobilia-ladenburg.de...&#&gid=1&pid=1

[_gonbau]

"
can the kommit number start from "high number" and as it occurs...go discounting instead of adding? Sorting some numbers I think about this since something strange has come out... If I order the vehicles mentioned by the production number... the order is exactly opposite to what if I order them by kommission number

1033624 komm 520179
1033626 komm 520176
1033628 komm 520170
1033648 komm 520105
"

+
XXXXthe kommit number is decreasing, as the Production-Number increases the kommit number decreases.XXXX
1033809 3600405 6630432 010223
1033810 3600410 6630408 010224
According to these last vehicles that I compared...it does not comply with the "decree"
the vin has little or nothing to do with the kommit number... I think.

[_gonbau]

using this reference image, and looking at the previous image of the data that starkey gave us. If you look at these two cars where the kmit number is totally different, but the vehicles are "identical". I think, according to what I see, the kommit number has nothing to do with the specifications of the vehicle!
+
E62-komm-nr 100 280003
https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/m...037/additional
https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...-xx-quot/page4
*
lineas de montaje? 0 1 2 3 4 5
las 2 primeras cifras indican algo aparte del resto...?
la tercera no ya que hay un documento que indica X y otro V (indica variacion del motor o caja de cambios...pienso)
+

What does the number next to the komm mean? Until now I thought that it indicated the versandart but... since there are many 5... I wonder if what I think is as I say, at this point I doubt it.
+
Same engine, same gearbox, in one a V in the kommit something that "bumps" with the vehicle of the X and my thought that the X has to be an engine or a gearbox.

[_gonbau]

From Starkey's tables, as information and in reference to the Kommit number, I would like to note that in Starkey's listing, the vehicles 9113600412, 436, 445, and 447 have a Kommit number of 52XXXX.
If we look at the production numbers of these vehicles, 1033624, (it's not visible in the image for vin 436, but if I'm correct, it should be) 1033648, 1033628, 1033626.
From that list, do the vehicles with production numbers 6XX and Kommit prefix 52 have any special origin?
I've highlighted the Kommit numbers for these vehicles before, they are as follows: 520179, 520105, 520170, 520176...
Can I see any relationship between these Kommit numbers and to whom does that prefix belong if we compare it with the rest of the table? The closest match in this list to this circumstance would be vehicle 9113600435, with a production number of 1032614 and a Kommit number of 470062. From this list, I believe this last vehicle is the only one that has a "2" in the production number. The rest have "3" and "4" as the fourth digit in the production number.



Se atraso 9113600435 en la produccion?