Vehicles with denomination E "xx"

[9er]

To side track a bit, but can I take out of this that model years 1964-1966 are designated 0 series?

[911MRP]

Baudett
the numbers you are talking about are for factory owned cars. Like any business Porsche must keep a record in its accounts of all assets which include factory owned cars - either for competition, sales department use, R&D or as company cars for management and directors

They have a unique numbering system in the companies FINANCIAL accounts and supporting records. This is totally separate to the vin number or anything related to the identity of the car itself.

I dont know precisely what numbering system they used in the 1960's but at least by the early 1970s they used a letter (corresponding to the series designation as you show above) and then sequential numbers after that as the car was recorded as inventory. There is no other code as far as I know and it is only for identifying the company owned cars for the purpose of accounting for them in the company's financial accounts. HOWEVER it does help identify whether or not a particular car was a company owned car originally BUT DOES NOT HELP identify in what way it was used.
The only source of decoding these numbers would be from the management accounts of the company which I am sure would record the vin number and the use / person the car was allocated to against each one as well as when it was disposed of and what price they got for it - all standard management accounting matters with only the vin and the use / user of interest to us. I would not expect such a list to ever be available and it is only individual cars where this is known - usually from other sources / records like the fact that most if not all of these cars had the inventory number stuck on it on Dymo tape - usually in the drivers side door jamb / A pillar or on the leading edge of the drivers door.

I would expect that the letter attached to the number was done reflecting the model year that the vehicle was added to the company's asset base - so in the case of your limousine IF it had been a project started in the E (1972MY) year but on a 1970 built car and the car had been brought onto the accounts in the E year I would have thought it would be a E numbered car - remember this is ONLY about the company keeping track of its assets for financial accounting purposes. I could see an example of a company owned car say a C car going out to a coach builder in the E year to create a new car and for accounting purposes the C asset is written out of the books and replaced by a new E asset (and number)

this is a photo of what started life as Herbert Muller's company car in 1973. It is a 1973 RS and therefore was recorded in Porsche's management accounts a F and 23 presumably because it was the 23rd car transferred into company ownership in that financial (and model) year
You can see that the number is just stuck on in blue Dymo tape and as stated above this is all purely for Porsche's internal financial accounting purpose. the two cars that that article mentioned were also probably two company owned cars (one from the 1969 model year(B) and the other from the 1970 model year (C)) and those numbers would have just been an internal shorthand way of identifying them - nothing more, nothing less. They would NOT be "model" numbers or even "project" nuimbers
Attachment 553944

Is the Vin of Muller RS known and is it still around? John Fitzpatrick once told me he was “given” an RS after his success in 72. I presume he meant Porsche had provided it to him under under a “factory driver use 911 then buy it at good discount” scheme — he said he regretted not keeping edoecially given what had happened to RS values around the time we spoke

Steve

[HughH]

Steve

Herbert Muller's "company car" RS was an RSH 9113600508. It is still around and in relatively original condition (or was last time I heard) after being stored for over 20 years.

My understanding is that all the contracted drivers got the use of a (factory owned) "company car" for 12 months (like all of the executives in the company) and were expected to use them to drive to all European races and other events to showcase the brand.
then after 12 months (like all other employees with this privilege including the Porsche family members) they had the option of buying it at a highly discounted price. For race drivers this was a no brainer as they could almost immediately on-sell for a profit or keep it as their own car. Most did the latter at least for a time.

In Fitzpatrick's case, and that of a couple of other very successful drivers in any year, I think "given" is probably correct as it would have been gifted to him/ them as a "bonus" payment. This may or may not have been built into their initial contract.

[glaverbel911]

All the internal info I have on 508 , there is never any mention to it’s internal factory number as it had nothing to do with build data. Even the document signing off the car to a new owner has no reference to it.
It would definitely be interesting for me if archives still exists at the factory. I own 3 other internal use cars but no holding my breath.
Regards,

[HughH]

Robert
I suspect that that is because all the detail about the "F23" in this case is nothing to do with the actual car or who owned it after the factory but it is the "asset number" in the company's financial accounts.
As cars were transferred to company ownership for whatever reason (management or drivers cars , competition or sales department cars or versuch cars) they were assigned a value and a designation in the financial management accounts and then when sold or destroyed (in the case of many test cars) that was written out or the disposal value was recorded against it - like in any other companies finacial accounts

That is why the archiv and all the other sources of information on cars has no information on any of these cars in this format

The only way to identify them seems to be from the blue dymo tape either inside the door as in your photo or on the rear screen at the bottom left had corner

[glaverbel911]

Hello Hugh.
Photo attached of my 74‘ Carrera 0012 in Wind Tunnel. Label attached on back window.
I believe I have a better photo than this on file for its internal identity.
Regards , Robert

[HughH]

Robert
I would think that your car's asset number would be Gxx as at that time they seemed to be using the model year code and then sequential numbers for each asset added to inventory. I think that would help keep a track of how long the asset was being held as I think they turned them over after a couple of years unless they went to the museum or the big external warehouse of the factory owned cars. I dont hold out any hope in tracking them all (just try to collect as many as I run across) as until 1973 Porsche was a private company and as such none of that financial data would be kept anywhere and since then, even as a public company, there are internal management accounts, not even consolidated financial accounts for reporting purposes, that would probably be kept for no more than 10 years or whatever the minimum is required under German law

[928cs]

All the internal info I have on 508 , there is never any mention to it’s internal factory number as it had nothing to do with build data. Even the document signing off the car to a new owner has no reference to it.
It would definitely be interesting for me if archives still exists at the factory. I own 3 other internal use cars but no holding my breath.
Regards,

Should we understand that you own 311 360 0508, aka F23?
Can-you, please, measure the width of this dymo tape?

I also think that your 1974 Carrera was G something.
We have discussed this subject into this thread: https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...project/page14

[928cs]

We can find a number of "E" cars into the RS 2.7 book.

E14- 911 E
E24-911 230 0022
E40-
E42-911 360 0002 (ex-911 230 0841)

But also a F.
F17-911 360 0092

[928cs]

To side track a bit, but can I take out of this that model years 1964-1966 are designated 0 series?

From my understanding, 0-series are preproduction cars