9113600038

[_gonbau]

Any info on this RS? It was registered in Tenerife on 1/5/73. Is this an early "RS"?
https://www.porscheregister.com/9113600038#details

"*****First Ducktail registered in Tenerife. TF 5225 B. Imported by the Matías Molina Hernández company from General Mola street, on November 5, 1973 for Mr. Miguel Giménez Mina. It is a Carrera 2.7 RS, with number chassis 9113600038 and engine number 6630056 in sepia brown. With 210 hp, at 6300 rpm that with 960 kg it accelerated from 0 to 100 in 5.6 sec. 3 versions of this car were manufactured (RSH, M471 or RS Sport, version austera and the M472 or RS Touring which was intended for customers who were not going to compete and weighed 100 kg more). 1,536 copies were made. The TF 5225 B was sold in Monaco on May 12 of this year, by RM Auctions for the US. $ 253,214 (lot # 320), after being transferred to Barcelona by Mr. Francisco J. Viñas Chamizo, from where it was exported on April 23, 2007. 3 cars were registered in Tenerife (this was the first, that of the magazine Motor Clásico TF 0357 C the second and a third of a friend who maintains it with 30,000 km, ex Juan José Ramírez) ".

https://www.facebook.com/groups/386525661367931/posts/565099383510557



# 9113600038 (bezeichnet als «Touring»): M472 *. Motor-Nr .: 6630056, Getriebe-Nr: 7830039. Produktionsdatum: noviembre de 1972. Originalfarbe *: 5454 Sepiabraun. Innenausstattung *: Código 16 Leder. Zusätzliche Ausstattungen *: 058 Stossstangenhörner verchromt mit Gummipuffern vorne und hinten (100,00);
409 enlaces / rechts de Sportsitze (250,00);
419 enlaces / rechts Dreipunkt-Gurten (250,00);
429 Nebelscheinwerfer rund, weiss, H3, unterhalb der Stossstange (170,00);
438 Porsche-Schriftzug weiss an den Türen links / rechts (70,00);
461 solicitudes de Eelektrische Antenne (300,00);
468 Radio Becker Mexico Olympia 169 Stereo con Kassetten / Stereo (1350.00);
482 Motorraumleuchte (40,00);
650 elektrisches Schiebedach (1230.00).



https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/m...touring/281115

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https://books.google.es/books?id=1_M...900%22&f=false

question out of place. What does it mean in the book, MODELCOUNTRY: TK

[911MRP]

Seems no one told Nick Faure/ importer PCGB the M472 versions were not to be raced when he won a STP production car event in Croft in March 73 in a first 500 series touring ( iirc 006x range). Said by some to be the first race of a 2.7 Carrera RS.


Attachment 556151

Essentially unmodified and driven 500 miles round trip to track in the north east of England. It does have an ignition switch in front near side horn grille presumably to be inconspicuous but meet regs and easy to revert to stock — not sure even had a roll cage … I don’t see sign of a cage in the shot unless I’m missing it? Reputedly event was on CN36 road tyres with pressures adjusted at this race otherwise of different tyres it was thought might have challenged for a record.

On a more serious note to the question .. Don’t know about the brown one but doubt that is its original front slam panel.

Steve

[_gonbau]

of the RS I still do not know. Can you tell me why the front bumper doesn't look original? I also wonder about the position of the antenna. In the RS did they change the position or did it depend on the country? Salds

[911MRP]

Electric antenna were that side (manual antenna other side) however many fitted locally so exact position varies .. even the position on hirschmann leaflets giving guidance varies over years and from memory varies from Porsche workshop manuals. Pretty sure the car Nick is racing had electric in that position because I remember being amused by seeing a picture of him racing with it extended which would mean radio (which on that car was a stereo Radiomobile brand eight-track cartridge player with receiver fitted at new by importer) actually switched on during the race given how set is usually wired up to extend the antenna only with the head unit powered up. Wouldn’t surprise me with Nick as he is quite a character.

Not sure what you refer to regarding the bumper? If from your knowledge or looking at pictures in big screen detail it is not standard (since I suspect not it’s original front slam) then might also be related to any work done upfront? There seems to be a licence/ number plate mounting bracket on the brown car. Not sure this was used al markets? For U.K. in importer owned car Nick is shown racing when new (and same in my similar U.K. car’s case) the front number plate was simply screwed directly to the bumper/ spoiler into fibreglass of the oil cooler cover. Clear in photo of Nick’s car. Not sure what using a bracket gives as benefit over simplest solution that makes use of the continently flat oil cooler blanking cover of al but French RS ? But maybe the seemingly unnecessary extra mount makes more sense with the brown cars original country market numberplate?

Sorry don’t have much but hope this little helps.

S

[_gonbau]

Electric antenna were that side (manual antenna other side) however many fitted locally so exact position varies .. even the position on hirschmann leaflets giving guidance varies over years and from memory varies from Porsche workshop manuals. Pretty sure the car Nick is racing had electric in that position because I remember being amused by seeing a picture of him racing with it extended which would mean radio (which on that car was a stereo Radiomobile brand eight-track cartridge player with receiver fitted at new by importer) actually switched on during the race given how set is usually wired up to extend the antenna only with the head unit powered up. Wouldn’t surprise me with Nick as he is quite a character.

Not sure what you refer to regarding the bumper? If from your knowledge or looking at pictures in big screen detail it is not standard (since I suspect not it’s original front slam) then might also be related to any work done upfront? There seems to be a licence/ number plate mounting bracket on the brown car. Not sure this was used al markets? For U.K. in importer owned car Nick is shown racing when new (and same in my similar U.K. car’s case) the front number plate was simply screwed directly to the bumper/ spoiler into fibreglass of the oil cooler cover. Clear in photo of Nick’s car. Not sure what using a bracket gives as benefit over simplest solution that makes use of the continently flat oil cooler blanking cover of al but French RS ? But maybe the seemingly unnecessary extra mount makes more sense with the brown cars original country market numberplate?

Sorry don’t have much but hope this little helps.

S

helps a lot! my understanding of the RS is short. I understand that you allude in the first comment to the version of the RS that weighs more than 100kg, right? I understand that by changing the appearance a little, it goes for a less heavy one ... Who would notice? ...
On the other hand, I have always wondered about this cover on the RS. It's a stupid question, but why do some have a cap there when the radiator should be? I would say that it is not the first one I see.

[911MRP]

Much of the weight change of early m471 to esrly 472 was from things that the paying customers wanted for usability and comfort. Generally these easily bolted in like a S interior . While early M471 sport were lighter than early m472 mainly for that reason the fact is the ability to fit such comfortable things on m472 touring is the actual main thing that made the overall homologation project successful in its primary goal. Oh the irony of that!

Previous attempts to get to homolgation build quantity for stripped out 911 racers ( think 911R ) had failed so forced those austere lighter 911 to be in prototype class due to FiA rules. Roughly ( a little over 200) of what are “austere” in your post sold in the [U][B]whole model year 73.That wouldn’t do! Well short of necessary and too slow to ramp to volume. They needed 500 (then decided to do 500 more) reaching that build goal before April 73. Homologation April. Job done but only thanks to the touring conversion being available on the base car! At least 500 early in calendar year was essential to be allowed by FiA to race 911 as programme intended in group 3 &4. That was primary goal of the RS programme — simply put the whole programme would have failed dismally to reach its goal of only the “austere” versions were made.In fact the Daytona winning car was in prototype class as by then certification hadn’t been achieved by Feb — it was fortunate to win as other dropped out but in doing so got a lot of attention as looked like production shape and the story was known that they were well on the to homologation of 911 as 500 were ordered already.

Sadly the “home truth” of the role of the m472 touring early cars is often lost on those who ought to know better — some that might promote only “austere” M471 or a few unconverted “austere” base cars are noteworthy RS configuration. Ironically the smaller build numbers that contribute to m471 valuation of low numbers is the consequence the failure to sell these “austere” ones to paying customers. The simple fact is that “austere” spec would’ve failed the homologation goal again is now glossed over! Even more gloss when some “austere” haven’t got the limited edition lighter parts nor were counted in the homologation tally. So many commentators continue to misunderstand the simple facts in context of the primary goal of the RS programme and fail to appreciate how it was really achieved. Being a limited edition lightweight verifiably 900kg core but also allowing customers to equip them to be usable was the key to pulling it off for the first time. Simply put early lightweight nominal 1000 chassis that with the popular to paying customers M472 conversion package that paid more for is the very thing actually made the homologation project a success on 1972/3. Too much noise these days for truth to be understood by some but happily not lost on others who actually know. Small numbers and looking the part maybe cool but not all that are the RS examples that got the real job at hand done.

Regarding that front cover on RS bumper/ spoiler. The m491 race versions had an oil cooler there whereas the road versions used the cooler ( coil of pipe sometimes referred to as trombone that ended on front wheel arch. The front spoiler was designed to homolgation specification with the large letterbox gap so it could race in configuration with front central oil cooler once converted to 2.8 race M491. For this reason it is found there with gap on 2.7 RS but has a panel that covers(blanks it off) as no full cooler behind. In France regulations didn’t allow this RS bumper / spoiler in glass fibre so had the S version— not quite sure how that didn’t reduce the tally but can only assume the French versions went to be weighed sms verified with the proper RS version temporarily in place and then switched to S as part of conversion. Or maybe they had the S spoiler already. Afaik they didn’t scruitineer full spec details at the town scales they just weighed/ recorded they it complied to 900kg homologation and independent worker at town facility just noted compliance against its chassis numbers as evidence to be submitted to FiA.

For this reason I suppose the 960kg of M741 sport has zero relevance to homolgation as it is a post town scales configuration — just like the M472 post conversion weight had no relevance either. The only figure that mattered for each early chassis among 500 (and about 500 more) was 900kg or less being noted at point of independent weighing.

The “austerity” of M471 Sport is closer to as officially weighed but frankly being a post weigh scale conversion tat weight has no more significance to formalities than being the preferred spec choice of 200 customers. As such it has no more significance to the fomal homologation verification event than the choice of the majority electing the touring’s usability and comfort meaning more kg and higher conversion cost than the cheaper Sport.

As I’ve said many times before if someone pays more for an M471 sport despite it having few limited edition lightweight features and no role on homologation because they are few in number and its striped-out fittings, then great. I would only hope any purchaser hasn’t misunderstood the facts in arriving at relative valuation in context of the homologation story.


S

[_gonbau]

* the Daytona car
Can you illustrate me with an image of what vehicle we are talking about?


* Regarding the front center cover, it clarifies many things for me. Until now I thought that in the RS there was always a central radiator and that the cover was mere protection ... I also did not know that the road versions had the trombone radiator.
Did anyone ever have Beher on the wheel? For road I say.
Thank you very much for solving these "beginner" doubts, I have never messed with the RS much. What has led me to touch them has been to see one in particular, an RS (900) that remains on this island, which I would say arrived together with my father's car on the same boat. But that, for the post of my car!

[911MRP]

Glad this helps. Take a look at RS pictures here

https://www.porscheroadandrace.com/1...e-carrera-rsr/

The 911 car race number 59 (low down on this link) is what I refer to as Daytona car ( not got the factory standard RS/RSR front spoiler. For that race 59 has an extra lower section). Also (around 6th photo on link you will see) a side by side of m471 2.7 and m491 2.8 “conversions” where the front blanking cover is present on road car vs cooler behind the open gap on the racing variant. That 2.8 is more representative of the original factory spec front spoiler on m491 — doesn’t have the lower section seen on daytona car race number 59.

Have not read the write up in link so can’t comment on if I agree on all their words written. Nevertheless it might have useful context and usefully had some photos to illustrate what we are discussing.

The road going RS got the same trombone cooler as many S ( was an option for S in USA iirc). Not sure how well trombone works hotter climates like yours but that cooling works on U.K. where we have the Gulf Stream climactic feature to keep things neither too hot or too cold vs extremes we read about in some parts of the world.

Coincidentally U.K. licence plates are roughly the size of the blanking plate of RS so not always easy to see the feature on cars here when fitted. A lot of this RS general spec stuff is covered elsewhere on ESR. I don’t mind the answering your questions on RS to best of my ability at all but maybe in dong so we are veering from the brown car you were asking members about on first post into more general RS spec things? Your thread so take discussion where you like if it helps


Steve

By the way: A friend lived in Tenerife his parents owned a holiday business there. He had a 72 2.4 E RHD Gemini blue he restored nut and bolt about thirty year ago when living here. He is in U.K. again and that car long sold. Don’t recall if the U.K. car went with him there and back with his various family moves between home here and his parents /family home on the island over the years. My wife and I enjoyed some holidays there over the years but normally we stayed on the quiet (less tourist) parts. Didn’t the Porsche family have a holiday home there or maybe it was one of the other islands?

[_gonbau]

Glad this helps. Take a look at RS pictures here

https://www.porscheroadandrace.com/1...e-carrera-rsr/

The 911 car race number 59 (low down on this link) is what I refer to as Daytona car ( not got the factory standard RS/RSR front spoiler. For that race 59 has an extra lower section). Also (around 6th photo on link you will see) a side by side of m471 2.7 and m491 2.8 “conversions” where the front blanking cover is present on road car vs cooler behind the open gap on the racing variant. That 2.8 is more representative of the original factory spec front spoiler on m491 — doesn’t have the lower section seen on daytona car race number 59.

Have not read the write up in link so can’t comment on if I agree on all their words written. Nevertheless it might have useful context and usefully had some photos to illustrate what we are discussing.

The road going RS got the same trombone cooler as many S ( was an option for S in USA iirc). Not sure how well trombone works hotter climates like yours but that cooling works on U.K. where we have the Gulf Stream climactic feature to keep things neither too hot or too cold vs extremes we read about in some parts of the world.

Coincidentally U.K. licence plates are roughly the size of the blanking plate of RS so not always easy to see the feature on cars here when fitted. A lot of this RS general spec stuff is covered elsewhere on ESR. I don’t mind the answering your questions on RS to best of my ability at all but maybe in dong so we are veering from the brown car you were asking members about on first post into more general RS spec things? Your thread so take discussion where you like if it helps


Steve

By the way: A friend lived in Tenerife his parents owned a holiday business there. He had a 72 2.4 E RHD Gemini blue he restored nut and bolt about thirty year ago when living here. He is in U.K. again and that car long sold. Don’t recall if the U.K. car went with him there and back with his various family moves between home here and his parents /family home on the island over the years. My wife and I enjoyed some holidays there over the years but normally we stayed on the quiet (less tourist) parts. Didn’t the Porsche family have a holiday home there or maybe it was one of the other islands?

I will look for information on RSRs (whenever I have read about them in this forum, I have not paid "much" attention to them!
The link that you tell me, where the two "rs" are located, different versions is quite clear now for me, but I have a question. I know that the trombone radiator was an option for the late 72s (I think I know that, I'm still wrong) but ... why not continue working with beher on the RS? From what little I know about the radiators, I understand that the beher they worked better than the trombone ones ...
the central radiator if it was beher in the correct track version?
Regarding the vehicle that came to the islands, could you tell me if it obtained a registration here? Maybe I can get a photo.

regarding quiet areas. I love this island for it but if you like that of tranquility like me ... "EL HIERRO" the island ... is the most peaceful place I have seen in my life. In ancient times they were right to put the point of the end of the world there.
Regarding the story that you comment. I would like to expand it since I had never heard anything like it. If anyone has a fragment of that history, they would be happy to look up the history of that house. Salds and again, thank you very much.

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Regarding the original vehicle of the post, I am interested in knowing a little particular detail. Due to its low number of chassis. Is there something special about this unit? Or is it simply the coincidence that when the vehicle was ordered from the factory, they were starting with the RS?

[911MRP]

Not sure why they didn’t revert to use other oil cooler for RS — by then trombone were the production solution on most 2.4 S so possibly simple as following the MY 73 cooling norm? Possibly the trombone was also right balance of weight Vs cooling for cars they had to weigh to prove less than 900kg. Frankly just guessing.

I’ve got the original factory parts list for m491 but I’ve never checked part number for m491 cooler. Clearly the upgrade was permitted as part of the 491 conversion — the work was expensive sms expensive.

For U.K. RS like mine the trombone works fine— 30c here is regarded as unusually hot day ans I’ve never had temp concern. Maybe good don’t have to have other solution I read some coolers nos can be hard to find / expensive. I wouldn’t know but maybe also more vulnerable to stone damage thank simple trombone?

Regarding my friend I would need to have a word before saying more as want to be respectful of privacy. I wouldn’t want him to feel I was sharing of his family affairs and car details on open www beyond the few generalities I’ve already mentioned so far… especially as he is less in tbe Porsche scene these days.