Why I like the 72 911 the most?

[dwa911]

I raced a 1972 T in the mid 90s in SCCA SoCal... I picked the 72 because of the weight distribution of the oil tank location, and revised rear shock mounting... I also found one that had a 2.4S engine and sport seats for sale at a reasonable price back then... Ended up running a 3.0 high butterfly MFI engine and a 1971 901 gearbox with a 904 mainshaft... got the best of all worlds with that car... Loved that car...
only thing i would do different today, is make the 3.0 a 66mm short stroke...

[mrar]

I have three, great little cars.

[blue72s]

I picked the 72 because of the revised rear shock mounting...

Interesting. Can you notice the difference in handling?

[dwa911]

Interesting. Can you notice the difference in handling?

It wasn't the handling... It made it easier to find and fit a larger variety of dampers including coilovers... In the early and mid 90s there weren't as many options available

[blue72s]

Thanks for the clarification.

[Longballa]

I raced a 1972 T in the mid 90s in SCCA SoCal... I picked the 72 because of the weight distribution of the oil tank location, and revised rear shock mounting... I also found one that had a 2.4S engine and sport seats for sale at a reasonable price back then... Ended up running a 3.0 high butterfly MFI engine and a 1971 901 gearbox with a 904 mainshaft... got the best of all worlds with that car... Loved that car...
only thing i would do different today, is make the 3.0 a 66mm short stroke...

Just the best photo! 72 out in front.

[911MRP]

I’ll stick to 911 in the configurations Porsche made for road as all manner of things are possible but modifications once done maybe be hard to attribute to “72 aspect” they are subject of this thread. Richard Chamberlain’s orange beast might still have a handful of 72 2.4 E bits left the base vehicle its first modified form but not sure how much the extant 72 components contribute?



While digesting Christmas lunch I remembered I had this set of curves comparing F series 2.4S used around 72 (and 73) vs the G series 911 2.7S (note in this graphical comparison it a lesser 2.7S not the 2.7 MFi of RS and 74 RoW Carrera 2.7)


In the related chart from Porsche interesting is how those figures manifests as 5th gear acceleration 140-200kph in the same set of documents (for those more familiar with imperial it’s roughly acceleration in 5th mid 80 to mid 120 mph) :


Maybe with the particular test they were mindful what might think .. a “Jenks test” perhaps haha. Whike various factors are at play perhaps touches on his “steam vs poke” comment regarding what he’d found lacking in the early 911 in 2.0-2.4 forms in across first decade of road-going 911 offerings in the Motor Sport. It was written in the early months of 1973 — time the “Early 911” had its final road going model line-up before the facelift. Of course there is more to it than one gear but I suppose it relates to one point that Jenks was highlighting generally and in the roadside conversation with Brian Redman:

“If your habitual cruising speed is around the 100-m.p.h. mark
you need "steam" for many things; for keeping up your cruising speed on long Autobahn inclines, such as you get on the Frankfurt/Nurnburg route; for instant acceleration to 115-120 to get past an impending movement in the slower traffic, thus avoiding unnecessary heavy braking; for getting clear impending trouble amongst 100-m.p.h. Opels that are flat-out, and so on. Previous Porsches would do all this providing you snicked down into 4th and took the r.p.m. up to the red line but there was not always time to do this. If you stayed in 5th gear and flattened the throttle all that happened was a change in engine note and nothing dramatic on the rev. counter. The 2.7-litre has changed all that and at 110 m.p.h. in 5th gear it gets up and goes, with 130 m.p.h. coming up very quickly indeed.”
Seems to be similar story in the 74 2.7S too

To avoid confusion when referring to different 2.7 powertrains reposting this article (the source ) to be clear Jenks is referring to a first 500 series 73 RS M472 in the 006x vin range so has lighter-weight features it had MFI and slightly different ratio to contemporary 2.4S — not sure if ratio carried over to the 74 911S or not?):



This is chart again shows its curves


Even with a non-MFI 2.7 G series being used that three car 140-200 kph timed acceleration comparison in 5th gear is interesting to see the difference in seconds (circled) ca the 2.4 versions for the quite specific test that appears to be dated 12th July 1973:

The sources of the graphs reproduced above are Porsche own development documents from around summer 1973 presumably test done as part of the G-series development programme. While I expect the 2.4 F series examples were from model year 73 (not 72) probably not too material in the particular aspect being measured in this scenario? The 2.7 motor in different MFI form continued in markets outside North America for the first few years of G Series sitting above the 2.7S in the range.




Steve

[recarno]

From model year 1972, the perforation of the side cushions of the sports seats was no longer required. The structure of the artificial leather of the seat covers was also significantly changed, as was the cord. Overall, I think a 1969 - 1971 Recaro looks much nicer than the 72/73 version. But of course it's a matter of taste and just my opinion.

regards uwe

[hadokenny]

Really enjoyed reading through this thread. Just got myself a 72 911T a couple months ago and I am loving every min driving it. Oil tank location, 915 tranny, MFI engine, and the classic long hood look! What's not to like?

[911MRP]

While there is more to it than straight line speed acceleration from a sanding start this is an interesting comparison of that one dimension

The Ferrari Daytona was in 73 the fastest accelerating road car ever tested by a well respected magazine that had been ans still is in print since the 1890s had tested that one the 73 RS was quicker from rest in the range most can use on the road due to speed restrictions.

Comparison. Top chart shows period figures for Daytona identical figure to 100 and a tad faster for some increments in the similar chart for 73 RS (as measured by the very credible racer turned journalist Paul Frere in 73)
Below for comparison is a 2.4S measured around same time — it is is off the pace of the Daytona and RS:


Only at speeds above 100 mph did the V12 Daytona began to gain the upper hand - incidentally that is the speed at which if ensnared in speed trap a driver’s licence could be forfeited immediately these days in UK!

The road tester commented: the 73 RS reached the kilometre mark in 25.4 seconds, being only one second down on the fastest road car I ever timed, the Ferrari Daytona.

The RS when new (from memory) cost about 60 percent of the Daytona, the Porsche made do with half of the cylinder count and its smaller footprint and lighter-weight maybe gave the RS an advantage over the larger heavier Ferrari on narrower roads, as well as being more frugal mpg on less expensive two (not four star) petrol of the day.

In calendar 1972 the new 2.7 RS launched early October was the match on real road speeds for much more expensive cars from a class that had hitherto been considered a notch above the 911.

Even by 1975 the new 911 Turbo didn’t best the 73 RS on these particular standing-start figures:


Like the Ferrari it only gained the upper hand on the RS above 100 mph but the price of the Turbo had pretty much doubled over the 73 RS Sport in the three years. With the challenging turbo lag, limitations of just four forward gears, wider rear wheels and arches, heavier weight that gave no more lateral G all combining made it less easy to depoy on (some) public roads?

(Sources: Autocar and Motor (Frere) wer selected here because these two British magazines had well defined testing protocols designed as much as practically possible to allow comparability of their road test measured results often using calibrated equipment to be accurate rather than just a stopwatch on the often optimistic Speedo for true mph).

The 73 RS is a good case study for the benefits of getting sales & marketing and bean-counters out of the way when developing a high-performing car. I doubt Porsche made a profit on the first 500 plus 500 examples due to the complications of the parts and processes for those chassis being for homologation. While they were limited edition homologation specials they were almost all sold to the general public and on many cases used as regular road cars — not as in past few in number and all as racing and rally tools. In Great Britain they appeared in adverts on “Country Life” magazine aimed at the well heeled country hinting and fishing set (not just car and motorsport magazines). The blurb highlighted that it was a versatile docile car for business folk as well as for competition-minded:


That it punched above its class on real world performance is one of the reasons why I like it the most. It was conceived during 1972; launched and 500 were sold out immediately at launch early in October 72 with about 300 examples (roughly a dozen of which were RHD) examples got built before end of calendar 72 … so maybe sort of counts as a “72” in context of this thread?

It is the model that reframed the factory motorsport efforts away from the hard to follow act of prototypes like 917 — a creative response to the FiA CSI meeting in London changing regulations and in doing so enabled much of the success that followed when in full M491 configuration. When it landed it hit so many of the right notes of the challenging brief by being appealing to sufficient well heeled buyers for general fast road use to get orders that exceed homologation volumes that had never been close to being reached by 911 before as well as finding success on competitive racing/rally use with so little modification beyond safety equipment. More or less out of the box winning even in the comfortable M472 Touring trim in hands of likes of Nick Faure and the Irish rally boys. Right up to international event outright wins as M491 often ahead of fragile prototypes. Nor forgetting still cleaning up in the huge competitive grids of the PCGB club racing scene in the eighties as a ten year old classic.

Vic Elford is recognised for his versatility as a driver. So are the first 500 base examples of model 911744 in the three M4xx conversion orders that were created in a special programme by a group of engineers and racers who finessed the small details to get it certified within the FiA group regulations should be recognised as probably the most versatile and successful of 911 models.

Steve