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Thread: Engine Electrical Panel - critique and help

  1. #1

    Engine Electrical Panel - critique and help

    First my thanks to Ed Mayo, John912 and Richy for their respective help on my last thread on this item. At this point I have some questions and would lioke their thoughts and corrections on what I think is my finished product. First the front and back sides.

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    First question is the washers used on the banjo fitting. Ordered off Amazon and came with copper crush washers. I have noted that some threads speak about fiber washers instead. Question is copper or fiber?

    Second questions is where does the black wire coming off the 86 terminal on the relay go to. Other end has "ring" type fastner.

    Third question is should I have is the red wire coming off the bakelite connector. This came from the original panel that was sold off. I believe it was attached there. Is that correct and where does it go to. Picture of the "ring" fasstner below. Unlike most of the fastners it is oblong as opposed to circular

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    Last question is as to the ground wires. I used the Kroon wiring kit. Gerard Kroon very helpful. Probably could have used Restoration Design also. Love their sheetmetal. Attached brown wire from relay to the fuel pump post. Also attached my original copper grond wire to that post (front side over top of rubber insulator). Looped the copper wire around the board to the backside of the board.. Also added a silver ground wire suppled by Kroon (they send 2). This is the ground wire I would attach to the fender wall stud. Essentially a daisy chain of ground wires.

    Sorry about crappy pictures and the inarticulate explanation. Please ask questions and offer comments and advice. Thanks

  2. #2
    What year / vin is this for?

    Richard
    searching for engine (case) 903742

  3. #3
    1967 Targa 500254S

  4. #4
    Fiber were originally used, but copper will be fine. You could probably source those at Ace hdw.
    yellow wire from starter goes to 86 on the relay. red/white wire from bakelite goes to term 30 of relay. black wire from 15A of resistor goes to term 87 of relay. additional black wire goes from 15A of resistor to term. 15 of ignition coil. your coil has spade terminals, original would have had ring terminals. The bakelite block is probably not bussed from each terminal, therefore three wires must go to one terminal; black from starter, red/white from alternator, and the red/white from bakelite to term.30 of relay.

    The reason for all this relay confusion is that in normal running ignition power goes thru resistor to coil dropping amperage thru ignition points so they last longer. However during cranking voltage will drop slightly, so to provide more voltage at that time, the relay is closed by power from starter which sends voltage directly to ignition coil by-passing the resistor. Once cranking stops, relay opens and coil power goes thru resistor again.
    Early S Registry member #90
    R Gruppe member #138
    Fort Worth Tx.

  5. #5
    ^^^^ Ed, your wealth of knowledge never ceases to amaze me
    Peter Kane

    '72 911S Targa
    Message Board Co-Moderator - Early 911S Registry #100

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Southern Ca.
    Posts
    1,166
    The ground for the board is sandwiched between the board and the lower front mount , so there is a circular area with no paint at the back at this location . Also the ground for the fuel pump is sandwiched between the mount and the bracket , not connected at the board .

  7. #7
    As Ed says, providing more voltage to the coil during cranking by by-passing the resistor is done through the relay mounted on the panel, triggered by the yellow wire at Position 86. Just make sure the other end of that yellow wire is in fact connected at the starter solenoid, mated to the same yellow wire that comes from the ignition switch. Just ask if you're not sure about how the other relay terminals are wired at the relay: ground at 85, power at 30, and black wire to resistor at 87 (see post 9 for #87 connection at the resistor- https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...diagram-online ).
    John Schiavone

    Connecticut

    356 Cab, 66 911, 914-6, 550-Beck, 981 Cayman, 54 MV Agusta Dustbid

  8. #8
    Gentlemen

    Thanks to all. Just two questions and two observations.

    1. Nothing attaches to pin 51 on the relay. Correct?

    2. Little hazy on ground wires. Fuel pump and relay ground wire attach between right side of pump bracket and rubber mount. Also incuded there will be a separate gound wire leading to body stud. On the backside of the board is another ground wire attached to board and running to the body stud? Picture would be great.

    Observation one: Ring fasteners are too large for the bakelite terminal and have to be trimed to fit in the space alloted. Perhaps this is why these bakelite terminals are always broken.

    Observation two: In the Kroon kit, the red/white wire is covered by vinyl sheath. Caused me to wonder why red was not included. Finally saw the red poking out between the end of the sheath and the beginning of the terminal.

    Really hate electrical but pleased with how this came out with everybody's help. Even looks like I knew what I was doing. Working on some upholstery details now. Let's see what I can F up there.

  9. #9
    Term. 51? did you mean 31? I do think there will be one unused spade when your done, seem to remember there were two spades for one terminal,,? To be clear,,,,term. 85 of the relay is grounded.
    #2 is correct,,,,fuel pump and relay must be grounded themselves since relay board is rubber mounted. And as Richy pointed out the relay board itself is grounded.

    You really should consider getting a wiring schematic,,, will make your life much easier.

    And yes,,,getting all three terminals on that bakelite terminal is tricky, I turn the wires so that two of the terminals are flat to flat, and one comes from an opposite direction, and I use a long enough screw to make easier to get it thru all three terminals and started in the thread.
    Early S Registry member #90
    R Gruppe member #138
    Fort Worth Tx.

  10. #10
    Ed

    This is the picture John suggests. Looks like 51 but yes you are correct that two spades are together. This what I have on my panel. Hope I'm right or just mis labelling. Have the wiring diagram for the board, but as I implied I'm too dumb to understand it mostly.

    Thanks again

    Tom

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